P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

[Six_String]

Hi all new here to the forum! I have a question for the wiring gods... My buddy just gave me a set of P Rails that he had lying around for some time. They had been installed by a well respected LA Luthier and I have been told that it was a set that had the colors wrong.

On the Bridge pup the way it has been wired up previously is, White and Red are tied, Green and shield are tied. The Black wire is on it's own. The Neck is wired the opposite way, Green and White, Red and Shield, Black on it's own.

I"m looking to install these in my Carvin Cali Carve top 624 that has 1 Volume, 1 Tone (with a push pull) and a three way toggle. I'm going to guess that I will need the TS rings in order to be able to access all of the configurations as I DO NOT want to drill any new holes on the top of the guitar for mini toggles.

I thought this would be a fairly common diagram and I have looked through as many threads as I possibly could for the answer/diagram with no luck. Can someone help/point me to the right thread or diagram?

Thanks in advance!

Six

 

[ToastyMagician]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

Hi all new here to the forum! I have a question for the wiring gods... My buddy just gave me a set of P Rails that he had lying around for some time. They had been installed by a well respected LA Luthier and I have been told that it was a set that had the colors wrong.

On the Bridge pup the way it has been wired up previously is, White and Red are tied, Green and shield are tied. The Black wire is on it's own. The Neck is wired the opposite way, Green and White, Red and Shield, Black on it's own.

I"m looking to install these in my Carvin Cali Carve top 624 that has 1 Volume, 1 Tone (with a push pull) and a three way toggle. I'm going to guess that I will need the TS rings in order to be able to access all of the configurations as I DO NOT want to drill any new holes on the top of the guitar for mini toggles.

I thought this would be a fairly common diagram and I have looked through as many threads as I possibly could for the answer/diagram with no luck. Can someone help/point me to the right thread or diagram?

Thanks in advance!

Six

The joined wires will be that start and/or finish of either coil so if you want to split or do a series parallel with the push pull you'll need to take them apart. Once you figured out the north & south start and finish it won't matter what colour the wires are because you'll be able to translate it to whatever diagram you need.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[gregory]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

Connecting white and green on a Duncan puts the coils of the pickup out of phase with each other.

EDIT(!):
...if the intention is to wire them in series. You can wire them this way if you plan on using a switch to select one coil or the other or put them both in parallel.

 

[Six_String]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

Connecting white and green on a Duncan puts the coils of the pickup out of phase with each other.

Even if it was wired wrong from Duncan? I know there were some that were sold that way.

 

[gregory]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

I'd be sure to create a diagram showing exactly how it was wired.

 

[Six_String]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

I'd be sure to create a diagram showing exactly how it was wired.

How the pup was wired in the previous guitar is unknown, how to wire it in my guitar is what I'm looking for. I just thought I would mention how it came out of the last guitar with the way the wire colors are soldered.

 

[gregory]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

How it existed in a previous guitar has nothing to do with anything.

You're saying the pickup was wired wrong when it was made. Since I don't have the physical spcimen in front of me, I might as well flip a coin to figure out how it was internally wired.

Maybe you can clue me in by providing the information you have about this particular batch that Duncan supposedly got wrong.

 

[Six_String]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

How it existed in a previous guitar has nothing to do with anything.

You're saying the pickup was wired wrong when it was made. Since I don't have the physical spcimen in front of me, I might as well flip a coin to figure out how it was internally wired.

Maybe you can clue me in by providing the information you have about this particular batch that Duncan supposedly got wrong.

Ok, the story goes that the pickups that my friend bought were wired wrong from SD. This was verified by the Luthier over the phone with SD that installed them previously. That's all the info I have to go on other than a mention of the same problem in a thread here on this board. I will see if I can dig it back up, I went through 3-4 pages looking for info.

Heres the thread of the mention... https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?318569-P-Rails-Install-Frustration&highlight=P+rail+wiring

 

[gregory]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

I guess we know that it was just the rail coil that was wired incorrectly and that will put the pickup in phase with another Seymour Duncan humbucker and there won't be any surprise issues with the magnet polarity?

These are things I'd want to know before attempting an installation with complicated wiring.

 

[Six_String]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

I guess we know that it was just the rail coil that was wired incorrectly and that will put the pickup in phase with another Seymour Duncan humbucker and there won't be any surprise issues with the magnet polarity?

These are things I'd want to know before attempting an installation with complicated wiring.

Agreed!

 

[Six_String]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

Ok, bumping this back to the top... I have verified that the coils are indeed wired correctly so now that's out of the way I am now looking for how to wire this set (P-Rail and TS) to the volume and tone pot. The tone pot has a PP which is wired to split the coils of the current humbuckers that are installed.

So if I use the PP switch of the tone pot what's the best/most useful way to wire it?

 

[Six_String]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

I have wired it according to one of the many wiring diagrams but now I don't have a coil splitting option which I thought thought the TS rings were supposed to do. Looks like I will have to install a mini toggle which I really don't want to do but if it gets me what I'm looking for... unless someone else has any suggestions?

 

[Six_String]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

So there is no way to coil split a pair of P-Rails with a Triple Shot system on a guitar with 1 volume 1 tone with push pull ?

 

[Will S-T]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

So there is no way to coil split a pair of P-Rails with a Triple Shot system on a guitar with 1 volume 1 tone with push pull ?

That's exactly what tha Triple Shot rings do, give you either coil, both, in series and parallel.

Check the diagrams again on the Duncan site.

Now you can use the push pull tone pot to give you series/parallel or in/out of phase in the middle position.

 

[Six_String]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

That's exactly what tha Triple Shot rings do, give you either coil, both, in series and parallel.

Check the diagrams again on the Duncan site.

Now you can use the push pull tone pot to give you series/parallel or in/out of phase in the middle position.

As hard as it is to believe I don't think it's working correctly, I wired as the instructions said to and to be honest it's pretty hard to get it wrong but I will admit I haven't wired a ton of guitars.

Just for info. I followed the color coding on the T.S. ring instruction sheet that came with the rings for the (standard wiring). I wired the PP to phase switch which does work as long as the 3 way is in the middle position (clearly a thinning of the tone).

When I move mini switches in either direction I can still get a pop out of the coil that is supposed to be off using a screwdriver to lightly tap the pickup.

Now it does say in the instruction sheet that depending on which way you move both of the mini switches, either the Adjustable coil or the Slug coil are ON. It doesn't anything about the other coil being off. So I guess I'm just needing a verification of the assumption that one of the coils are supposed to be off when the two mini switches are moved in the same direction (left or right). If that is the case I will go through and double check to make sure I did wire everything correctly.

Thanks for the reply mate!

 

[akio]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

That is correct, Triple shot switches in the same direction give you one or the other single coil, different directions give you both coils in either series or parallel humbucking mode.

 

[Mincer]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

If you are still running into issues, post a pic or 3 of your wiring, and the good people here can try to sort it out for you. The Triple Shot rings are really remarkable when everything is working properly.

 

[Six_String]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

Ok I did a double check on the pickups again and you can hear a pop on the coil that is supposed to be off not quite as loud as the coil that is on or should be. Is this a normal reaction? I'm thinking the coil should be completely off. With the three way toggle in the bridge position I can perform the same test on the neck pup and get nothing as it should be. Am I hearing the normal operation of this pickup system? if so then everything is ok and I just need to get used to hearing how this system works.

 

[gregory]

Re: P Rail wiring 1 Volume 1 Tone PP 3 toggle way TS

You can absolutely get sound by tapping the pole in the disabled coil, because the disturbance in the field will be sensed by the other coil.

Try tapping the pole pieces with a magnet instead. You will hear a significant difference between an enabled and a disabled coil that way.