P-Rails Diagram Needed 3-way + 5-way
- Thread starter davec69
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DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: P-Rails Diagram Needed 3-way + 5-way
Hmmm. Not without first finding a way to send the pickup's signal to both switches at the same time.
I was able to wire 2 hums to both a 3-way blade and a 3-way toggle where the blade selects the humbucking modes (bridge, both, neck) and the toggle shunts the splits to ground. When the blade is on Both (Middle), and the toggle is on Both (middle), both pickups are split. If I put the toggle on Bridge or Neck while the blade is on Both, only that pickup is split while the other is humbucking.
You might be able to do it like this, but I haven't tried it:
Connect the P-Rails to the 5-way (R+W are the Rail, as I understand it), and jump the Bridge and Neck tabs of the switch to the Middle tab.
The next part I'm not so sure about, as it's based on the H-S-H + AutoSplits diagram
http://www.seymourduncan.com/suppor...tics.php?schematic=lilhum_sing_lilhum_1v_2t_s
In that diagram, the hums are split on the 2 and 4 BUT the middle pickup is also active. Since this is for a 2-pickup diagram, and the Middle connection is both Bridge and Neck, and the AutoSplit is splitting the Bridge and Neck, you might end up with Bridge split + Neck split in the 2, 3, and 4 positions.
However, you should also be able to jump from the Bridge and Neck tabs of the 5-way to the toggle.
From there, you have to decide which switch is going to the knobs - the 5-way or the toggle? I suppose they could both go, but you might end up with an electrical loop where both switches do their thing at the same time all the time.
Or you could send the switches to a push/pull that selects which switch gets the knobs. That eliminates the possibility of an electrical loop, but you can't use both switches at once.
If that's OK with you, run each switch to the outer tabs of a push/pull, then the center tabs out to the knobs.
However, you're still faced with the issue of having the same sounds on 2, 3, and 4.
Hmmm. Not without first finding a way to send the pickup's signal to both switches at the same time.
I was able to wire 2 hums to both a 3-way blade and a 3-way toggle where the blade selects the humbucking modes (bridge, both, neck) and the toggle shunts the splits to ground. When the blade is on Both (Middle), and the toggle is on Both (middle), both pickups are split. If I put the toggle on Bridge or Neck while the blade is on Both, only that pickup is split while the other is humbucking.
You might be able to do it like this, but I haven't tried it:
Connect the P-Rails to the 5-way (R+W are the Rail, as I understand it), and jump the Bridge and Neck tabs of the switch to the Middle tab.
The next part I'm not so sure about, as it's based on the H-S-H + AutoSplits diagram
http://www.seymourduncan.com/suppor...tics.php?schematic=lilhum_sing_lilhum_1v_2t_s
In that diagram, the hums are split on the 2 and 4 BUT the middle pickup is also active. Since this is for a 2-pickup diagram, and the Middle connection is both Bridge and Neck, and the AutoSplit is splitting the Bridge and Neck, you might end up with Bridge split + Neck split in the 2, 3, and 4 positions.
However, you should also be able to jump from the Bridge and Neck tabs of the 5-way to the toggle.
From there, you have to decide which switch is going to the knobs - the 5-way or the toggle? I suppose they could both go, but you might end up with an electrical loop where both switches do their thing at the same time all the time.
Or you could send the switches to a push/pull that selects which switch gets the knobs. That eliminates the possibility of an electrical loop, but you can't use both switches at once.
If that's OK with you, run each switch to the outer tabs of a push/pull, then the center tabs out to the knobs.
However, you're still faced with the issue of having the same sounds on 2, 3, and 4.
Re: P-Rails Diagram Needed 3-way + 5-way
Thanks for your response. it's giving me more ideas.
This will go into a HH Strat, so what I'd like to do is to use normal HH Strat pickguard with a volume pot in the first position, a Gibson style 3 way toggle in the second position and a tone in the third position on the pickguard, instead of the usual vol-tone-tone. Up to this point, I'll wire it as a typical Gibson 1 vol 1 tone set up like here:
The 3-way will allow me to select between Bridge-neck-both. My issue is how do I wire the 5-way strat switch, to select the most useful tones from the two P-rails?
Thanks for your response. it's giving me more ideas.
This will go into a HH Strat, so what I'd like to do is to use normal HH Strat pickguard with a volume pot in the first position, a Gibson style 3 way toggle in the second position and a tone in the third position on the pickguard, instead of the usual vol-tone-tone. Up to this point, I'll wire it as a typical Gibson 1 vol 1 tone set up like here:
The 3-way will allow me to select between Bridge-neck-both. My issue is how do I wire the 5-way strat switch, to select the most useful tones from the two P-rails?
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Re: P-Rails Diagram Needed 3-way + 5-way
Hmmm....I do have a superswitch in the ole switch box, and I know where the common poles are, but the rest of it, I have no idea how to do.
Do you mean instead of using the 3-way, or in addition to the 3-way?
The superswitch that I have looks like there are 4 discrete sections. Do I use two of those sections?
Hmmm....I do have a superswitch in the ole switch box, and I know where the common poles are, but the rest of it, I have no idea how to do.
Do you mean instead of using the 3-way, or in addition to the 3-way?
The superswitch that I have looks like there are 4 discrete sections. Do I use two of those sections?
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: P-Rails Diagram Needed 3-way + 5-way
Finally, I think I understand the SuperSwitch! Thanks Hermetico!
I've been looking at the poles as Outputs rather than viewing them as 2-way contacts.
As you said, if you connect the R+W of the Neck pickup to one pole, and the R+W of the Bridge pickup to another pole, you still have the other 2 poles to work with.
But in that event, if you connect the Red to one pole, and the White to another pole, then you should end up with 5 White Outputs and 5 Red Outputs that you can send anywhere - like a Terminal Strip!
Given that, you can also connect the black wires of each pickup to their own poles.
Now, how to do the SuperSwitch wiring so you get Hum, Rail, and 90 of each pickup?
Mixing the 2 switches, you should also be able to use the 3-way to do more than just Gibson-style switching - such as sending one connection (Black or R+W) to Ground for selectable splitting, etc.
Finally, I think I understand the SuperSwitch! Thanks Hermetico!
I've been looking at the poles as Outputs rather than viewing them as 2-way contacts.
As you said, if you connect the R+W of the Neck pickup to one pole, and the R+W of the Bridge pickup to another pole, you still have the other 2 poles to work with.
But in that event, if you connect the Red to one pole, and the White to another pole, then you should end up with 5 White Outputs and 5 Red Outputs that you can send anywhere - like a Terminal Strip!
Given that, you can also connect the black wires of each pickup to their own poles.
Now, how to do the SuperSwitch wiring so you get Hum, Rail, and 90 of each pickup?
Mixing the 2 switches, you should also be able to use the 3-way to do more than just Gibson-style switching - such as sending one connection (Black or R+W) to Ground for selectable splitting, etc.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: P-Rails Diagram Needed 3-way + 5-way
I have absolutely no idea what this would do, but it sure looks interesting.
I'm theorizing that the open tabs in each group would be active, so:
To get Neck Humbucking in position 1 (neck), the R+W Neck tab and the Black Neck tab would have to be free.
To get Neck Rail in position 2 (neck+middle), you'd shunt the neck+middle Black tab to ground.
To get both pickups humbucking in position 3, you'd connect both Black tabs.
To get Bridge Rail in position 4, shunt the Bridge+Middle Black tab to Ground.
To get Bridge Humbucking, leave both open.
Again, theoretically.
However, that doesn't get Parallel or P90 options. I'm assuming you could get coil swap (neck rail+bridge 90), but Parallel requires White to be grounded with Green. Not sure what Neck R+W + Neck Black would give.
As well, to use the 3-way to do Bridge/Both/Neck, you'd need a push/pull to split the pickups to the SuperSwitch and the 3-way.
I have absolutely no idea what this would do, but it sure looks interesting.
I'm theorizing that the open tabs in each group would be active, so:
To get Neck Humbucking in position 1 (neck), the R+W Neck tab and the Black Neck tab would have to be free.
To get Neck Rail in position 2 (neck+middle), you'd shunt the neck+middle Black tab to ground.
To get both pickups humbucking in position 3, you'd connect both Black tabs.
To get Bridge Rail in position 4, shunt the Bridge+Middle Black tab to Ground.
To get Bridge Humbucking, leave both open.
Again, theoretically.
However, that doesn't get Parallel or P90 options. I'm assuming you could get coil swap (neck rail+bridge 90), but Parallel requires White to be grounded with Green. Not sure what Neck R+W + Neck Black would give.
As well, to use the 3-way to do Bridge/Both/Neck, you'd need a push/pull to split the pickups to the SuperSwitch and the 3-way.
Re: P-Rails Diagram Needed 3-way + 5-way
Wow. That looks impressive. Like you, I have no idea what it would do, but it does look interesting.
At this point, I'm thinking to go with the Mini toggle (maybe even 2 SPDT On-Off-On) as shown in the Duncan diagram above, then replace my strat 5-way with 3-way blade instead of the gibson style toggle.
After leaving the minitoggles, I think the wiring would be just a simple 3-way HH strat wiring (tele style).
This would allow me to use the minitoggles to select betwen Hum-p90-rail for each pickup, and the 3 way to select which pickup.
I don't have enough cylinders firing to visualize the superswitch wiring, but I think I can see this arrangement, at least in my head.
Wow. That looks impressive. Like you, I have no idea what it would do, but it does look interesting.
At this point, I'm thinking to go with the Mini toggle (maybe even 2 SPDT On-Off-On) as shown in the Duncan diagram above, then replace my strat 5-way with 3-way blade instead of the gibson style toggle.
After leaving the minitoggles, I think the wiring would be just a simple 3-way HH strat wiring (tele style).
This would allow me to use the minitoggles to select betwen Hum-p90-rail for each pickup, and the 3 way to select which pickup.
I don't have enough cylinders firing to visualize the superswitch wiring, but I think I can see this arrangement, at least in my head.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: P-Rails Diagram Needed 3-way + 5-way
I hear ya. I've had them for years (Jackson Special 5-Way - same concept, slightly different layout) but never really had a full understanding. Hermetico's diagrams have really helped me sort out how this switch works and what can be done with it.
That said, I did a small test wiring similar to the above diagram and I'm confident that it won't work :lol:
I hear ya. I've had them for years (Jackson Special 5-Way - same concept, slightly different layout) but never really had a full understanding. Hermetico's diagrams have really helped me sort out how this switch works and what can be done with it.
That said, I did a small test wiring similar to the above diagram and I'm confident that it won't work :lol:
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