P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

[GuitarDoc]

I just installed a P-Rails Hot in a Triple-Shot mounting ring in the bridge of my LP. The P-90 sounds nice and bright yet full. The Rail sounds very similar, just slightly darker and not quite as loud. In humbucker-parallel mode it sounds about the same as the P-90 but maybe just a bit more open sounding. I'm describing almost imperceptible differences here, these three options sound almost identical. When I switch to hum-series, it sounds very dark and bassy, the highs are gone, it is muddy, and it is noticably louder. Of couse you'd expect it to be a bit darker and louder in series, but this is WAY darker, like turning the tone control all the way down.

I'm not an amateur at wiring and soldering and I've check all that and redid it three times so I know it's correct.

For all practical purposes it really only has two distinct sounds...P-90 and mud. I wanted SOOOO much like this pup, but it's only useful to me as a P-90.

What's up? Anyone have a similar experience?

I've tried adjusting the pup height and adjusting the philister screws and have gotten it to the best that I can hear, but still it seems it's only a 2 trick pony...beautiful P-90 and mud.

This can't be right. I've read so many good reviews about the P-Rail sounds. I've rewired it three times, tried 2 different Triple Shots and tried a regular (not hot) P-Rails. All the same.

It's almost as if the Rail side doesn't exist except when I kick it in series mode. But then, where did all the treble go?!:banghead:

 

[Franknfilms]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

I always wondered if the adjustable pole pieces being further away from the bridge would take away some of the treble and crunch you would expect out of a humbucker. Due to the P-90 layout the adjustable poles are right in the middle of the pickup, maybe someone can confirm if this is an issue.

Also, having the rail on the neck side of this pickup takes all the fun out of having a single coil in the bridge if you ask me. I'm only speculating though, I haven't played a p-rail before.

 

[Natman]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

I have the regular P-Rails and I often feel it is too hot. I would never go for the HOT version as it already seemed too dark in series for me. Sometimes you goatta lose the hum or get more crunch though.

It still doesn't sound right to me, but there's nothing about the wiring you can screw up really. Would you be using stock Gibson 300k pots perhaps? You're going to want 500k.

 

[sbecker67]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

I have the standard set in a Studio copy and have made similar comments in other threads. The only exception is I don't find any of the tones muddy just not very disimiliar. The P-90 definately sounds the best of the three, humbucker mode sounds very much the same just with the benefit of noise cancellation and the rail just seems thinner. One other thing, the less gain used the more individual the three modes sound.

 

[blueman335]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

That's what I suspected might be the case with P-Rails, which is why I haven't gotten one. In HB mode, it seems like it'd be way too hot and dark. When I want a P-90, I put in a Phat Cat or other HB-sized P-90. If you try to get too many things from a PU, how many options are really usable? I'd rather have one great P-90 tone, and skip the rest.

 

[Andrew Lamprecht]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

That's what I suspected might be the case with P-Rails, which is why I haven't gotten one. In HB mode, it seems like it'd be way too hot and dark. When I want a P-90, I put in a Phat Cat or other HB-sized P-90. If you try to get too many things from a PU, how many options are really usable? I'd rather have one great P-90 tone, and skip the rest.

Cheers to that.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

I think I have to agree with you, Andrew and Blueman. And that is alwasys what I have done in the past. I was Just very curious about the P-Rails. It sounded like a great idea for a pup. And when Wymore was liquidating he had one P-Rails and one P-R hot so I snatched them up at a great price to try them out.

I do have to say that I really like the P-90 side of the P-Rails. It is definitely the best sound of all the options.

Yes, the sounds are more distinguishable when clean. And, yes, I use 500k pots all around. You all should know that about me by now. I'm a staunch advocate of at least 500k pots. I never use 250k or 300k except in my Strats.

I'm still going to work with it awhile today. See if I can make any other fine tuning adjustments, amp adjustments, etc. I really don't want to make any drastic changes to my amps though, since they are already set up the way I like them for my main guitar (which used to be my LP Ultra, but now it's my Wilshire...man, I love that guitar).

So I guess I'll see what happens and I'll report back.

 

[uOpt]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

The P-Rails is very dark and powerful in series. It is in the class of eg. the Steve Morse pickups which is really only good for driving medium-gain sounds.

It's one of the reasons I didn't keep it, I didn't find the humbucking mode useful and everything else hums (except the parallel mode which I thought wasn't too useful as an additional capability).

 

[dr. ad]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

the pickup having 2 A8 mags would suggest backing the pickup right off the strings to me; i'm guessing that this has already occurred to you tho.

 

[Sanford]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware.

 

[pmgnut]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

Did you test the pickups an ohm meter?

 

[Conker09]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

the pickup having 2 A8 mags would suggest backing the pickup right off the strings to me; i'm guessing that this has already occurred to you tho.

Does it have 2 or 3?

I thought it had 1 in the rail pickup and 2 in the P-90.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

I like my P-Rails but you have to take it for what it is: A P-90 with some stuff added to it to make it more diverse.

The series humbucker tone is a P90 with a rail to make a hot modern humbucker. It's gonna sound really thick and heavy and be best for high-gain fuzzed-out tones...

I'm using the normal P-Rails as the only pickup in my SG. It's my "hard" guitar and is tuned low with extra-fat strings and the P-Rails is perfect for that...the P90 is good for 80% of my playing and the humbucker mode gives me a fat / mid-scoop / gain / hum-cancelling boost for solos and whatnot.

You can't go into it expecting them to somehow magically made a P90 that can transform into a PAF and then into a Telecaster pickup...it's more like a P-90 Plus.

All that said, it's weird that you're losing all your treble in series mode. I perceive a boost in bass and treble that makes the mids seem less present.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

Does it have 2 or 3?

I thought it had 1 in the rail pickup and 2 in the P-90.

Yeh, I think you're right.

the pickup having 2 A8 mags would suggest backing the pickup right off the strings to me; i'm guessing that this has already occurred to you tho.

Yeh, I've moved that sucker all over the place and I've found a place where it seems to work much better. When I first put it in I had it up fairly close to the strings. I tried moving it away in several steps raising the adjustable screws (on the P-90). I've gotten it to sound much better now and I'm beginning to really like it and see some real advantages. For example: I can play a bright intro with the P-90, switch to the rail for rhythm (rail is a little mellower, less bite, less output), then switch to hum-series with OD for a singing/creamy lead. I still think I'm going to mess around with the magnets, though, to see if I can get a more pronounced difference in the sounds from the P-90 vs rail.

I don't think that I can get to it today, but when Ive got results I'll report back.

 

[Conker09]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

I like my P-Rails but you have to take it for what it is: A P-90 with some stuff added to it to make it more diverse.

The series humbucker tone is a P90 with a rail to make a hot modern humbucker. It's gonna sound really thick and heavy and be best for high-gain fuzzed-out tones...

I'm using the normal P-Rails as the only pickup in my SG. It's my "hard" guitar and is tuned low with extra-fat strings and the P-Rails is perfect for that...the P90 is good for 80% of my playing and the humbucker mode gives me a fat / mid-scoop / gain / hum-cancelling boost for solos and whatnot.

You can't go into it expecting them to somehow magically made a P90 that can transform into a PAF and then into a Telecaster pickup...it's more like a P-90 Plus.

All that said, it's weird that you're losing all your treble in series mode. I perceive a boost in bass and treble that makes the mids seem less present.

EXACTLY

I bought the Prails because I have always wanted a P-90 and I thought, as long as I'm buying a P-90, I might as well get something with extra crap on it.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

^ hah. i got one cuz i loved the Phat Cat in my SG-X but that guitar came with a mini-switch for coil splitting that i wasn't using.

then i got the pickup and my tech gave me a couple of push-pull pots for the 4-tone trick and now the mini-switch is on / off :smokin:

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

The P-Rails have always been P90's first, then new sounding humbucker next (a humbucker sound you really can't get anywhere else) and then Rails and Vintage Humbucker next in no particular order. I think we got more out of the Rails and parallel sounds than anyone ever thought possible, between the Alnico magnets and the mismatched coils. They've gotten great reviews and are a top seller. Ty Tabor is using them and he's one of my heros, so I'm totally humbled by whatever it is that he's made a connection with.

I gig with them regularly, and for me all the modes are noticable. They do differ a lot in the top end, so if you have a smooth amp, it's going to reduce the differences a little. Also a dark guitar will stay dark, even with the Rails on. The P-Rails still have to match the guitar. But what I discovered in all the testing is that no matter what guitar they're in there are at least two killer sounds, probably three. Which two or three totally changed from one guitar to the next. Bolt-on, set neck, long or short scale, different body woods, they all made a huge difference but there was always something great about the combination.

P-Rails Hot is a darker pickup. It will hit the amp hard, and the Rails coil is bigger and stronger. To the original poster, try flipping it around so the Rail is by the bridge and report back. You don't even have to rewire it, just flip it. Even if the switches are on the treble side you can still audition it that way.

 

[Conker09]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

The P-Rails have always been P90's first, then new sounding humbucker next (a humbucker sound you really can't get anywhere else) and then Rails and Vintage Humbucker next in no particular order. I think we got more out of the Rails and parallel sounds than anyone ever thought possible, between the Alnico magnets and the mismatched coils. They've gotten great reviews and are a top seller. Ty Tabor is using them and he's one of my heros, so I'm totally humbled by whatever it is that he's made a connection with.

I gig with them regularly, and for me all the modes are noticable. They do differ a lot in the top end, so if you have a smooth amp, it's going to reduce the differences a little. Also a dark guitar will stay dark, even with the Rails on. The P-Rails still have to match the guitar. But what I discovered in all the testing is that no matter what guitar they're in there are at least two killer sounds, probably three. Which two or three totally changed from one guitar to the next. Bolt-on, set neck, long or short scale, different body woods, they all made a huge difference but there was always something great about the combination.

P-Rails Hot is a darker pickup. It will hit the amp hard, and the Rails coil is bigger and stronger. To the original poster, try flipping it around so the Rail is by the bridge and report back. You don't even have to rewire it, just flip it. Even if the switches are on the treble side you can still audition it that way.

I personally love every setting on my prails. I think the parallel wiring is even amazing. To my ears, it gets me really close to Page's tone on "the song remains the same" album/concert.

The p-90 is...well...it's a rockin' p90.

The rail gives a little more bite in the treble as well as just a tad less mids. It is also a little more airy and twangy.

And yes, the series mode is dark...but I would never call it muddy. In my guitar, It is a little dark but yet very clear. I personally love it. If I want something brighter or something that sounds exactly like another pickup, I would put that particular pickup in the guitar.

But, as everyone including myself has said earlier....it is a killer P-90 with some extra fun included.

 

[Sanford]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

I have no complaints about the P-Rails set in my semi-hollow. I love having the various coil options, great tones all around. Now every time I visualize a new guitar I invariably end up wanting to get another P-Rails set.

 

[blueman335]

Re: P-Rails...is it supposed to sound like this??

I still think I'm going to mess around with the magnets, though, to see if I can get a more pronounced difference in the sounds from the P-90 vs rail.

+1. I'd try that myself. With a resistance of almost 19K ohms and a 3.0KHz resonant peak in HB mode for the bridge model, I'm not seeing that as anything close to a "PAF-style HB." I thought that since P-Rails have a P-90, they would be geared more for guys that want vintage tones in all modes. I'd think the neck P-Rails might be worth a shot in the bridge slot. I'd settle for nothing less than 3 good tones out of a P-Rails.