P-Rails, Triple Shots and push pulls, oh my!

[tnjazz]

Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I recently installed a set of P-Rails in a Les Paul with Triple Shot rings and two push pull volumes. I followed the wiring diagram on the website exactly for 2 hums, 2 triples, 2 volume, 2 tone, 2 push pull series parallel.

Most everything works great, but I'm not sure my phase setup is correct. If I pull up on the phase pot and my switch is set to bridge only, I lose 90% of my signal. If I flip it to middle or neck the volume comes back though.

Is this expected behavior, or am I missing something somewhere? The Triple Shots are set to standard humbucker series - I haven't tried it in other modes yet to see if the "problem" is still there.

Not a big deal, but I thought maybe if someone else out there had this wiring setup they might be able to offer some advice?

Thanks!

 

[AXEL276]

Re: P-Rails, Triple Shots and push pulls, oh my!

I don't think you need the push/pulls with the Triple Shots. Your probably shutting off a coil using both.

 

[tnjazz]

Re: P-Rails, Triple Shots and push pulls, oh my!

True, I don't actually need them. I just happened to have 2 push pull pots in the guitar already (and no spare pots, lol) so I figured I'd go "all out" wiring this one.

There is a specific diagram on the website for this setup (with push pulls AND Triple Shots), so there must be *some* merit to it?

A somewhat related question...
Suppose I put both pickups in parallel mode. If I go to the middle position on my switch - is that both pickups in parallel mode, in series? If I pull up on the pot then, does it put both pickups in parallel mode into parallel (4 parallel coils?) ?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails, Triple Shots and push pulls, oh my!

I think this wiring has got you confused a little. You are mixing up the phase switch with the series/parallel switch.

You say..."If I pull up on the phase pot and my switch is set to bridge only, I lose 90% of my signal. If I flip it to middle or neck the volume comes back though". What you are describing will only happen when you pull up on the "series/parallel" switch. And this result is to be expected since both pups are routed through the s/p switch and then (together in series) to the neck lug of the 3-way switch. The wiring to the bridge lug of the 3-way is bypassed. Since only the neck lug of the 3-way is electrically connected, whether the 3-way is in either "neck" or "middle" positions, the output to the jack will be the same.

A somewhat related question...
Suppose I put both pickups in parallel mode. If I go to the middle position on my switch - is that both pickups in parallel mode, in series? If I pull up on the pot then, does it put both pickups in parallel mode into parallel (4 parallel coils?) ?

If I understand your question correctly then the answer is "no". However, your question is a bit vague, but hopefully this will answer it...if you use the Triple Shot on each pup to put their respective coils in parallel, then use the s/p push/pull switch to put the pups in parallel (down position), then yes you will get all 4 coils in parallel (each separate pup in parallel mode, in parallel with each other). But if your s/p switch is up (in series mode), each pup will have their coils in parallel , but the two pups will be in series with each other...your 3-way will not have any affect on that and will only transmit the signal in neck or middle positions.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: P-Rails, Triple Shots and push pulls, oh my!

Doc is correct.

Regardless of coil mode, the output from two P-Rails pickups, linked in series, will only reach the selector switch via the cable for the second pickup.

On a Switchcraft-style three-way toggle selector switch, two of the positions give the same nett result. Any signal that you hear on the third position is leakage.

 

[tnjazz]

Re: P-Rails, Triple Shots and push pulls, oh my!

I think this wiring has got you confused a little. You are mixing up the phase switch with the series/parallel switch.

You say..."If I pull up on the phase pot and my switch is set to bridge only, I lose 90% of my signal. If I flip it to middle or neck the volume comes back though". What you are describing will only happen when you pull up on the "series/parallel" switch. And this result is to be expected since both pups are routed through the s/p switch and then (together in series) to the neck lug of the 3-way switch. The wiring to the bridge lug of the 3-way is bypassed. Since only the neck lug of the 3-way is electrically connected, whether the 3-way is in either "neck" or "middle" positions, the output to the jack will be the same.

OK that makes sense; the only thing is that this occurs when I pull up the bridge volume pot. According to the diagram I'm following - http://cdn.seymourduncan.com/pdfs/support/schematics/2ts_2v_2t_phsp.pdf the bridge pot is the phase switch.

If I understand your question correctly then the answer is "no". However, your question is a bit vague, but hopefully this will answer it...if you use the Triple Shot on each pup to put their respective coils in parallel, then use the s/p push/pull switch to put the pups in parallel (down position), then yes you will get all 4 coils in parallel (each separate pup in parallel mode, in parallel with each other). But if your s/p switch is up (in series mode), each pup will have their coils in parallel , but the two pups will be in series with each other...your 3-way will not have any affect on that and will only transmit the signal in neck or middle positions.

Thanks, the second part of the question was what I was getting after. I didn't realize on the second push/pull that parallel was down and series was up.

So it sounds like little to no volume with the pot in the up position and the bridge only selected is normal behavior, but everyone here saying that's what the series/parallel will do versus the wiring diagram telling me it's the phase pot - that is what's confusing to me now...

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails, Triple Shots and push pulls, oh my!

OK that makes sense; the only thing is that this occurs when I pull up the bridge volume pot. According to the diagram I'm following - http://cdn.seymourduncan.com/pdfs/support/schematics/2ts_2v_2t_phsp.pdf the bridge pot is the phase switch.

Pulling up on the phase switch only reverses the phase of the bridge pup, it doesn't reroute the signal to a different location on the 3-way. If what you are saying is correct, then you have the s/p switch wiring on the bridge vol pot and the phase switch on the neck vol pot.

Thanks, the second part of the question was what I was getting after. I didn't realize on the second push/pull that parallel was down and series was up.

So it sounds like little to no volume with the pot in the up position and the bridge only selected is normal behavior, but everyone here saying that's what the series/parallel will do versus the wiring diagram telling me it's the phase pot - that is what's confusing to me now...

All I can say is check your wiring, because it can't happen as you say if you have it wired according to the diagram. It will only happen with the series/parallel switch...that switch routs the hot signal from both pups to the neck lug of the 3-way switch.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: P-Rails, Triple Shots and push pulls, oh my!

Anything this complicated is bound to be a great success.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails, Triple Shots and push pulls, oh my!

^. I personally wouldn't do it. P-Rails with Triple Shots is plenty of tonal variety for me.

 

[Demanic]

Re: P-Rails, Triple Shots and push pulls, oh my!

Wire it so one of the push/pulls does series/parallel between both pickups when they are both on, and wire the other one as a phase between both pickups.