PAF output pickup for metal

C

CarlosG

New member
Hi!
I have been looking for a humbucker for myself for some time.
What I care about the most is high dynamics, between 7-8 kohm and tight low end.
I thought it was impossible, but my Steinberger humbucker do it. It's not the best sound quality but they are very dynamic and have a very tight bass, having about 7-8k (I don't remember exactly). They also have a ceramic magnet, it would seem that 7-8k and a ceramic magnet will give a very bright sound. But humbuckers are fully shielded and filled with resin, which probably gives a large capacity, darkening the sound.

what's worth checking?
 
You've seen the topic that I've done for you?

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...ger-spirit-pickups-a-confirmation#post6292166

Should allow you to see what is exactly the difference between your Steinberger HB's and P.A.F. style humbuckers, explaining why it wouldn't be that easy to make the second ones equivalent to the first ones (unless you'd stick some off-center mini-humbuckers under wider plastic covers; possible idea for a "CarlosG" Custom Shop Model).
 
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freefrog said:
You've seen the topic that I've done for you?

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...ger-spirit-pickups-a-confirmation#post6292166

Should allow you to see what is exactly the difference between your Steinberger HB's and P.A.F. style humbuckers, explaining why it wouldn't be that easy to make the second ones equivalent to the first ones (unless you'd stick some off-center mini-humbuckers under wider plastic covers; possible idea for a "CarlosG" Custom Shop Model).
Click to expand...

Thanks! I wrote in your post.
 
I go in an out of phases where I like PAF-types for Metal. I'm currently liking blistering hot output pickups, but there's no denying PAF-types offer something different that can be cool.

Standouts for me were the Duncan '59B, the DiMarzio PAF Pro, the Gibson Burstbucker Pro, and the Fishman Fluence Classic in voice 1.

I definitely recommend Alnico 5 over 2 for Metal as it's bolder, stronger, and I feel more reactive to how strong you pick. JMO.

I also don't love 7K pickups. 8K-ish is low enough output for me.

One thing about PAF-types... I wouldn't get too obsessed over the "added clarity and dynamics". Yes, they do feel and sound different, but also keep in mind that in order for them to sound "good" doing Metal, you do have to adjust your amp a bit differently compared to high output pickups. For me, I find myself using more gain and EQ'ing differently, which kinda offsets the "clarity and dynamics" thing. So yes, they do sound and feel different, but is it as big as people make it out to be? Unless you don't adjust your settings. But in my opinion, that ends up making them sound thin and dry, and I kinda don't like that. But your opinion might be different.
 
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CarlosG said:
I've noticed that some PAFs are unpotted. Is it true that you can't play high gain on them?
Click to expand...

Not in my experience but it's a tricky question.

A pickup without anything loose shouldn't squeal.

But loose parts can be elsewhere than in the pickups themselves. Height setting springs and screws come to my mind.

I've also heard potted pickups squealing like pigs under hi-gain...

Anyway: there are other ways than potting to prevent squealing or to tame it if it happens. I'm a big user of silicone plumbing tape around loose screws, for instance. It looks cheap at first glance but can't be seen no more once the job done and it keeps unwanted vibrations in check.
 
High preamp gain + high volume + close proximity to an amp will make an unpotted pickup squeal. But that's why they make potted pickups. Unpotted pickups are the best with more dynamic styles, using either dead clean or slightly overdriven sounds that let the dynamics of the player come through.
 
Not saying to buy a set because they are getting pretty damn expensive, but I have a set of Bill Lawrence made '70s Gibson Tarbacks which are essentially a ceramic PAF, and they sound amazingly good for metal tones. Very dynamic and cutting. They have a wicked grind with high gain and heavy fuzz tones.
 
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I personally cannot play through unpotted pickups. At least not high-gain. Makes me feel something is not working right. Yes, they squeal. Badly, IME.
 
I've just passed a few hours to play hard rock with unpotted humbuckers: no squealing for me, unless I would stand directly in front of the cab, with bridge pickup directly toward the cone of a speaker... ;-)

That said, I'm consciously careful with mechanical dampening of critical components and/or decoupling from pickups to loudspeakers.

Many famous tracks were played under serious gain and/or at high volume with unpotted P.A.F.'s or T-Tops... I don't think for instance that Greenie has potted PU's, since butyrate bobbins would have been harmed by hot wax, anyway... And Kirk Hammett doesn't seem to find that annoying.

Now, I use potted pickups too, and I fully understand the principle at work: when thousands of pickups are produced, it's not doable to apply super precise mechanical / electrical fine-tuning to each transducer, nor to personalize them to avoid squealing in each singular playing situation...
 
Mojotone and Seth Lover are unpotted, so It doesnt work for me. I like high gain with tight low end.
From this comparison (16 pickups) i like Pearly Gates and Dimarzio 36 anniversary.
Although pearly Gates more. I've read that it's great for metal and has a tight bottom.
I was also thinking about 59 but I heard the low end likes to be sloppy.
 
CarlosG said:
I was also thinking about 59 but I heard the low end likes to be sloppy.
Click to expand...
The low end on the 59 is anything but sloppy.

The thing is that pickup is scoopy, but the scoop leans towards it being bright rather than fat. It does have a present bottom-end, but it's very immediate.

Listen to Carcass - Surgical Steel. As far as I know, that was recorded with Bill Steer's Les Paul Custom with a Duncan '59.

I like the DiMarzio too, but I'd say the '59 has a bolder, tighter low-end. The DiMarzio has less low-end, but kinda like a JB, it's got slightly stuffy low-mids.
 
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Yeah, the low end in the 59 is pretty tight. In fact, when people complain about the 59 (and that isn't often), it is because the low end is very present.
 
a buddy of mine who plays classic and black metal uses a pearly gates bridge pup in half his guitars and loves it
 
The thing about the '59, or any PAF-type, for that matter, is that they need you to really dig in to get the most from them. And the harder you play, the tighter they get because the focus shifts from the low-end bloom to the attack.

Honestly, you could say the same about any pickup for playing Metal, now that I think about it.
 
If the 36 anniversary has a looser low end, I reject it.
So what will give me more dynamics and tighter low end 59 or pearly gates? Maybe similar?
 
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