Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

[jonnymangia]

I was wondering if anyone out there, especially cats like Lew who saw these guys play in the 60's and 70's, would rank Green (in his heyday) with the holy British trio? Page/Clapton/Beck always get mentioned as the end all/be all's of the British blues/rock thing, but I think Peter Green deserves to be on this plane as well. If he had kept his S*#t together I think his best days were to come.
Check out the Fleetwood Mac Live in Boston series CD's...the man can play.

And from a tech perspective, I know he played a late 50's Paul (that Gary Moore now owns) through Orange amps, but do we know what pups he was using?

 

[ledzepp29]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

I completely agree, I need to get the live boston cds. I do have shrine 69' which is just spectacular, it has the most spine chilling version of Need your love so bad!


I think the main reason he isn't normally said along with those other three is because he simply didn't get as famous and wasn't around long enough to get the recognition.
I know in 69' peter was using orange amps w/ an orange reverb unit then he went to fender in '70.
His pups were stock besides his famous neck pickup magnet flip that made it out of phase when in the middle position.

 

[CapoFirstFret]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

Man Peter Green was INCREDIBLE. I've only recently discovered his stuff but man I love it...I do a version of "need your love so bad" that's very similar to his, since his version was the first I heard and it knocked me out

 

[Armotron]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

I just ordered lots of cds, including what will be my first Peter Green cd, I think I'll definetely enjoy it, seems like my kinda music.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

I did not think Peter Green was quite as impressive as Eric Clapton or Jeff Beck. Except for "Supernatural" I didn't like Peter Green's tone all that much. "Supernatural", recorded during his time with John Mayall was mind blowingly great. But I thought his tone was kind of thin and stringy and just not as attractive as Clapton's or Beck's.

Although I bought all of the Fleetwood Mac stuff when it came out, I was not as attracted to PG's tone as I was to Clapton's or Beck's.

As for Jimmy Page, when I saw him live with the Yardbirds they were awful and Page got an awful tone and was sloppy as all get out! Never saw Led Zep live...only on video. However, I loved his playing on records, both with the Yardbirds and with Led Zep, and learned "White Summer" off of the Yardbirds Little Games LP note for note when I was still in high school and it was one of my first exposures to open tuning.

But live? I think it was Eddie Van Halen who said that live, Page was "a real fumble finger".

Page is a creative genius...but his live playing has always been inconsistent, IMO.

Getting back to Peter Green, BB King rated him higher than Clapton or Beck back in the day and said Green was the only British Blues guitarist who gave him chills! So what do I know? :laugh2:

Jeff Beck and Jimi Hendrix have been my favorite guitarists since the first moment I heard either of them.

And Clapton, IMO, invented modern rock guitar tone when he plugged his Les Paul into a Marshall and cranked it up to 11. No one had ever sounded like that before Clapton did it. He invented that sound and almost everyone, Peter Green included, copied his tone and equipment choices back then.

Of all those guys, Clapton and Beck had the best tone live.

Live, I thought Hendrix sounded great at Monterey but that he sounded rushed, sloppy, out of tune, and had a lousy tone as often as not other times.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

On the 'if he had lived' list, I'd nomnate Duane Almand on filmore east has a sound that practically no one has come close to

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

As far as pickups go, I know the neck position PAF in his 59 les paul was reversed so the screw polepieces were closer to the bridge.

My guitar repairman owns Peter Green's Orange combo. He got it when he was living in England.

 

[marvar]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

On the 'if he had lived' list, I'd nomnate Duane Almand on filmore east has a sound that practically no one has come close to

IMO, Fillmore East is a very rare special moment in live recorded music, you can just hear the magic all through that album.
I'm also glad to see that someone finally agrees that Page,though innovative, is really a pretty sloppy player live.
BTW, ever heard Judas Priest do Green Manilishi? it's one of their signature songs that they usually close their show with- and guess who wrote it? Peter Green!

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

I would post here, but to be honest Lew summed up everything I was thinking!

The only thing I will say is that the PG "out of phase" tone is cool sometimes and I do use it from time to time, but I couldn't live off of it like P{eter did.

Also, IMO Peter is still doing some fantastic stuff, and I dig his stuff form today.

Also, I just want to say one more time that The Supernatural is one of the most amazing pieces of music ever written and preformed on en electric guitar ever...the times I have heard that song number in the hundreds and I still get chills when I hear it...The Green Manalishi is my next fav, I do also like Jig Saw Puzzle Blues...and, well you get the idea!

Jeff Beck is stil the man!

 

[marvar]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

I was wondering if anyone out there, especially cats like Lew who saw these guys play in the 60's and 70's, would rank Green (in his heyday) with the holy British trio? Page/Clapton/Beck always get mentioned as the end all/be all's of the British blues/rock thing, but I think Peter Green deserves to be on this plane as well. If he had kept his S*#t together I think his best days were to come.
Check out the Fleetwood Mac Live in Boston series CD's...the man can play.

And from a tech perspective, I know he played a late 50's Paul (that Gary Moore now owns) through Orange amps, but do we know what pups he was using?

As a thought- Clapton is the only one 'on this plane', who has stayed the course, and although he is no longer considered "God", he has remained true to his convictions. Beck, although fantastic, has some real personality issues. Page, though innovative, has never really been focused. Green, got lost along the way.
I would have to say Claption deserves to be in the First class section on that airplane.

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

And Peter said he only did acid 8 times...

 

[jonnymangia]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

I was listening to the Mayall / Green record "A Hard Road" today and I agree that his tone is defintely thin, at least on that record. But check out the Boston CD's...wow. The riff on "Oh Well" is incendiary! I can see why the guys in Priest were influenced by him.

 

[Curly]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

I hate these threads, 'cause they end up sounding like beauty contests, and music to me, has never been "who's first", etc ..

I'm a little too tired to say anything profound. I saw Yardbirds live in '65 (with Beck), saw Led Zep a couple years later, have seen Clapton a half dozen times, going back to Cream in '67 ... and would've loved to have seen Greeny in his day

"here's Clapton's spot, take it away, kid!"
that was Peter's lot in life twice, and he was up to the task

Peter had the hands, phrasing, tone, and most of all, the SOUL

his love of the blues was genuine, and it led him to record "In Chicago" at the old Chess studios. He backed Eddy Boyd around the same time on another blues album.

his band was the biggest band in England at one time, yet at the height of popularity, he wanted to give all his money to the poor

I love Clapton; however, Peter was a fine singer from the start, as well as a terrific composer - "Oh Well" is one of the best crafted songs in pop music. Peter's playing could go from bitter sweet one moment to stinging the next ("Rattlesnake Shake")

just listen to "Then Play On". Peter showed early on the great potential that blues based music had.

 

[sgstrat]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

If you've read some of my posts in the past you probably know that I'm a big Peter
Green fan. I came to appreciate him rather late and never did get to see him live. In terms of his playing ability, he should be considered as one of the very best players of his era (or any other, for that manner). His vibrato was world class, his phrasing was always creative whether he was playing sweet, incisive or somewhere in between. I have to disagree with Lew regarding Peter's tone. Some of his recordings, like "Then Play On", the Boston Tea Party shows, The Shrine album as well as "The Supernatural", have great tone. Other tracks, like "Sugar Mama" and "Drifting" boast tones just as ferocious as Clapton's on the Beano album. Also, remember that the tone on the "English Rose" album was intentionally thin in imitation of 50's Chess recordings.

So, how did Peter Green compare with the great British triumvirate? IMHO:

- Jeff Beck - How do you compare anybody to Jeff Beck? You don't! Beck and Green were two completely different players, each great in their own right. 'Nuf said.

- Eric Clapton - Here is a more valid comparison. If I had to choose I would pick Green because of his beautiful phrasing, but this should only be interpreted as praise for Peter and not a knock on Eric. This is like having to choose between lobster and filet mignon. Choose? No thank you , I love 'em both.

- Jimmy Page - Sorry, I can't answer this one. I have never been and will never be a Jimmy Page fan.

 

[sgstrat]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

I do also like Jig Saw Puzzle Blues...

Jig Saw Puzzle Blues is a Danny Kirwan song featuring Danny playing lead. Danny was sort of a protege of Peter's and a very talented guitarist. People often confuse Danny's playing with Peter's. The biggest difference between the two was their vibratos: Kirwan's was wider and slower, Green's was tighter, faster and more subtle.

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

I would certainly rank Peter Green up there with Page, Clapton and Beck.

Let's not forget Paul Kossoff, Mick Taylor, Brian Jones and Keith Richards either! Those guys were as much a part of Britain's 60s blues boom as the Yardbirds triumvirate.

God bless the Surrey Delta.

 

[msplines]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

Have to be shagged out old git to have seen 'em all live, unfortunately (?) I started to go into pubs when I was 12 as I was tall (yer can take 'im away now hofficer) and erm, tall, well, talk about stupid choices, Clapton was first (i'm talking about with John Mayall) and well tidy, lovely phrasing and thicker than pea soup, Green was next, flawless phrasing and a tone to send shivers down your back, hollow, soulful and a treat to listen to (just for the nerdy bit, I've seen him play his LP and then strats with Marshall stacks many times before Orange came along). Beck never used to turn up, so I saw Taste, Savoy Brown and the original Jethro Tull more times than I care to think about but, when he DID turn up, Christ, talk about original, nobody else sounds like Jeff, so straight comparison is just futile.
I only saw Jimmy page with Led Zeppelin (in a pub - laugh, were we ever deaf) and it's all true - very interesting and as sloppy as me (until he doped himself stupid after which he was mostly sloppy, but I digress). Fleetwood Mac were OK, great songs but far too many Jeremy Spencers on stage to really satisfy and even louder than Led Zep, better heard in the car park. Thing is, when you saw a good band in a small venue with great playing, even the nerds weren't counting the bpm vs notes/second vs width of vibrato vs excessive use of the phrygian major, nope, we were all concentrating on serious things like passing full pints overhead from the bar to the corner by the bog and thinking f**k me, I wish I could sound like that - taking it seriously see!

 

[Archer_of_Fish]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

I was wondering if anyone out there, especially cats like Lew who saw these guys play in the 60's and 70's, would rank Green (in his heyday) with the holy British trio? Page/Clapton/Beck always get mentioned as the end all/be all's of the British blues/rock thing, but I think Peter Green deserves to be on this plane as well. If he had kept his S*#t together I think his best days were to come.
Check out the Fleetwood Mac Live in Boston series CD's...the man can play.

And from a tech perspective, I know he played a late 50's Paul (that Gary Moore now owns) through Orange amps, but do we know what pups he was using?

he used the stock pickups. in those days replacements werent out there.

They were manufactured magnetically out of phase in the factory (an error) and that gives the guitar the unique tone it had when both pickups were on.

 

[Archer_of_Fish]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

As far as pickups go, I know the neck position PAF in his 59 les paul was reversed so the screw polepieces were closer to the bridge.

THats not the reason for the tone. The direction of the screws doesnt really matter if the poles are flat with the top.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Page/Clapton/Beck....and Peter Green?

I was wondering if anyone out there, especially cats like Lew who saw these guys play in the 60's and 70's, would rank Green (in his heyday) with the holy British trio? Page/Clapton/Beck always get mentioned as the end all/be all's of the British blues/rock thing, but I think Peter Green deserves to be on this plane as well. If he had kept his S*#t together I think his best days were to come.
Check out the Fleetwood Mac Live in Boston series CD's...the man can play.

And from a tech perspective, I know he played a late 50's Paul (that Gary Moore now owns) through Orange amps, but do we know what pups he was using?

A CD that is a must have is Fleetwood Mac the Peter Green Years. I have this CD in may car and I never remove it. Peter Green is arguably the best Blues guitarist thet Ever came out of Britian. You ar right in saying that if he had kept it together a lot of great music would have come of it.

As far as his guitar...... Its a '59 Burst. The PUPS were original PAF's. After listening to Peter Green............ And then listening to Gary Moore play the same guitar I realized that much of Gary Moores sound was the '59 Burst.