Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

[Jeffrec]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

no. ive said before that i think that the pgb has some similarities to a great tele bridge pup, bright and punchy but not harsh, if you know how to use your tone control you can get almost anything out of it. ive had the same set for years, at the moment its in les paul special and i love it. if its too bright for a certain part, i roll back the tone a little. high end can be scary since its harder to hide mistakes but it will force you to be a cleaner player. i think the 59 has more high end than the pearly gates, but the 59 has less mids with more bottom, where the pg has strong upper mids.

if some one found the pg too bright and didnt want to use their tone control i would suggest putting a 250k tone control on that pup.

a buddy of mine uses the pg in his main jackson and also in his esp and he plays straight up metal. if you have the right amp you can do lots of different styles with the pg.

Thanks,
I don't think I've ever tried them. I'm using Ants in my LP Custom (for years), and I've used Seth's and a CC too (in a '61 SG) and like the mid range a lot.

jeff

 

[jimijames]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

For what it's worth, the APII is a potted Seth. The non potting of the Seth adds some air, which adds a reverb like ringing overtone. It can be nice, but never dialed out. It wasn't for me, but I'd love to try it in a hollow body.

If you want more output, CC/59 hybrid with an A2 is cool too. But it is compressed and again, that doesn't dial out.

Ok, two things:
People here are constantly saying one pickup is the exact same as another except for one thing, and so far, the only pickup that seymour makes that I have found this to be true with is the custom series (and possibly the JB/Distortion, I haven't had that confirmed yet though.) The aph2-n is wound to 7.6k, where the seth is wound to 7.2 IIRC. In addition, the seth uses plain enamel, the APH2 single poly nylon. If you were to order an unpotted A2pro, it would probably still have more mids and have a different resonant peak than a seth lover. If the only difference was potting, then seymour would make the APH2 more widely available without wax potting (for instance, it would be listed as one of the available mods on the main website).

2: I have the CC/59 hybrid in my les paul and my strat, and it really isn't that compressed. I don't know if you're going off of what you're hearing or how the pickup responds to your playing, but it's a very dynamic pickup. It's slightly middy and smooth, but that doesn't necessarily make it compressed. It's perfect for the half-clean/half-gain territory that jimmy page inhabited so well, because not only does it sound badass distorted, but also because it has enough harmonic content to sound somewhere in between a P-90 and a vintage-output bucker when you roll down the volume. (Also, the kinman treble bypass mod doesn't hurt with the versatility)

Just nit picking though, I have a PGn and a 59/custom in my les paul and while it works great, I'm changing it to the PG set because I want my les paul to sound like a straight up les paul, and the 59/custom doesn't have that mid-peak that you get from a matched wind, and thus sounds different than a tried-and-true humbucker. You might like it, but if you're looking for 100% pure les paul badass, then get the pearly gates set.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

word.

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

I would like to support the idea putting an A2 in your BBpros. If you like the stock neck, you have a great set and have spent 7 bucks!
Nice flames, like that color too!

 

[The Usual]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

I was told that the 59, AP2 and Seth were the same coils. Maybe the Seth is not. I don't know for sure. I'd love to know, but I've played them all with an A2 and there is not a real difference in them outside of the Seth being upotted. I think that somewhere in Lew's thread about the Hybrid, he mentions that the 59 and AP2 are the same.

CC is compressed. Sorry but it is. If you can't hear that, I don't know how you could hear the difference between a 59 with an A2 and AP2. Using half of a CC with a 59 is compressed as well, because the compression is inherent in that CC coil, and the 59 does not balance that out to the point where it isn't audible.

My opinion is based on my experience with pups from multiple manufacturers. I use vintage amps, that are very clear and unforgiving. Personally, I am very attuned to compression in gear, and it has driven me to spend far too much money over the years.

I find that all of the SD stuff I have played shares a common vibe. I hesistate to call that smoothness compression across the board, because it is not, but it lacks a certain airyness compared to some vintage Gibson stuff. I find that airyness more frequently in Gibson pups, but at the cost of sounding thin or brittle at times. If you've ever played a vintage pup that has that air, you can hear very clearly what I am referring to.

The reason I point out to people the commonalities I see in pups is that I have spent so much money swapping and re swapping and I hate to see other people waste money on stupid moves that I have made. Changing from a 59 to AP2 instead of swapping magnets is a waste of money.

 

[The Usual]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

And not to pick on you JimiJames, but isn't the PG a mismatched wind?

In fact a lot of people supect that's a big reason the PG is too harsh in many LP bridges? If you have a 59 laying around, I'd try it in your LP bridge with an A2 before you spend the dough.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

i just had my pg out of the guitar and there was very little difference in resistance between the two coils, definitly within tolerance. that doesnt mean that there isnt a different pattern on one of the coils but the resistance is pretty close.

i am quite sure that the aph, seth, 59 etc... are NOT the same pup with different magnets. are they similar in some ways with the same magnet? sure. not the same.

a seth neck and aph neck are noticably different, just like an aph bridge is different than a 59b. the only pups that i know for a fact are the same with different magnets are the custom series.

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

I wasn't a fan of the PGn in my L.P, can't put my finger on it really... not smooth enough I think and too gritty? However in my Yam SG it's much better .... I'd say it's a keeper in there. My LP has a Bro/ Seth (b) in neck combo and I love it.

 

[theodie]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

And not to pick on you JimiJames, but isn't the PG a mismatched wind?

In fact a lot of people supect that's a big reason the PG is too harsh in many LP bridges? If you have a 59 laying around, I'd try it in your LP bridge with an A2 before you spend the dough.

I have measured them and they are within normal tolerances. Now, do they have teh same resistance but, a slightly different wind or wire? Who knows but, they are not mismatched just by resistance.

 

[theodie]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

HighGain, if you are in the market for a PG bridge, I have a NIB for sale.

LMK.

 

[jimijames]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

And not to pick on you JimiJames, but isn't the PG a mismatched wind?

In fact a lot of people supect that's a big reason the PG is too harsh in many LP bridges? If you have a 59 laying around, I'd try it in your LP bridge with an A2 before you spend the dough.

Well, my review of pickups is fairly limited in terms of what I hear them through - I have a copy of a plexi in a combo, so I should add YMMV, which in our case it very obviously does. And to clarify, I didn't say anything about the Custom Custom, you're right in calling it compressed, but I was discussing the 59/custom, which doesn't feel compressed to me. It has the SOUND of a compressed pickup, but it reacts to the dynamics of my picking (and fingerstyle) much like a fat single coil would. There may be a difference in the headroom of our respective amps that would result from the output of the pickup (11.25k), but if your amp has the headroom, I find it to be a very dynamic pickup.

I also made no comment about the PGb being asymetrical, and if it is(which I have been led to believe that it is), it is only in the wind and not is not evident from the DCR readings of the coils. Theodie I believe took a meter to one and found out that the coils are wound to essientally the same DCR.

I understand how the '59, APH-2 and the Seth can sound similar, but every time an administrator has chimed in to clarify when such a rumor has come up, they have been keen to make clear that the pickups are in fact different. I don't argue that they sound similar, but I feel that is because they are all PAF replicas - just different flavors of PAF. The Seth is absolute vintage correct, the '59 is for people who want more of a clapton tone, and the APH-II is a more modern sounding paf that works well with gain. The PG has an attitude all its own, which is what I love about it. You can't get a '59 or a Burstbucker to sound like a set of pearly gates with just a magnet swap. Hence the recommendation. If you don't like that upper-midrange grind, by all means, get a 59 with A2 and call it a day. But if you dig ZZ top, the Allman Brothers, and les pauls with attitude, then there really is nothing like a set of Pearly Gates.

edit: woops, I posted before I saw that theodie had (on the Pearly Gates), my bad.
edit: Haha, and Jeremy too, like I said I only pass on as truth what the admins confirm (in terms of product line knowledge)

 

[The Usual]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

Well, what can I say. I don't know. I don't work for SD. And SD is not going to tell us, Oh yeah, the 59 and AP2 are identical except for the magnet, but still, buy both.

If you made an unpotted AP2 with a wooden spacer and a different covered, same guage wire, with the identical wind, maybe you'd have a Seth bridge. Maybe. Or maybe its the 59 wind. Or maybe it's an entirely different wind that they recalibrated all their machines to and chagned the entire line, while not making new winds in a totally differnt range, because it takes a lot of work. Sure.

Why is it hard to believe that there are duplicate winds in the SD line? Especially with all the variations in around a limited output range.

In the end I go with tone and I stand by this. Replacing a 59 with an AP2 instead of swapping the mag is a waste of cash. Find any toneologist on here who'll disagree.

There's always myths around the products so it's hard to suss out the details. The PG is a great example of this. I thought it was inspired by Billy Gibbons and was somehow mismatched. Maybe it's a 59/AP2 hybrid!! All I know is that it sounds harsh and crappy in the bridge of my LP, and is not in there anymore.

I don't want to hijack this thread more than I have. If I misreprestend SD, I apologize. I like SD.

 

[HighGain]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

I don't consider any of it hijack, really. I want info, and that's what all of this is. Even if it's opinion, there's a lot of usable stuff here. I'm enjoying the hell out of it, FWIW.

Carry on, please....

 

[korus]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

Not all covers are equal. My experience is that Shaller's chrome ones which are pretty heavy are most effective for taming treble.

 

[jimijames]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

Yeah, but I like to give SD the benefit of the doubt. They have been kind enough to give us this forum, and when one of the administrators attempts to set something straight, I usually stand behind them. But this doesn't mean I disagree with you, I'm not going to say that my truth is the absolute truth. You say you have a bunch of high-end, vintage amps, and that the '59 w/ A2 and the APH sound identical through them. I'm not saying you're wrong, because I can't hear the world through your ears. What I do is pass along the information I get from the people who make the pickups. If they were lying to us (which I have no reason to believe that they are), then they are intentionally misrepresenting their products. There's a pretty significant price difference between an APH-II and the Pearly Gates/ Seth Lover models, and I want to believe that SD is a bit more ethical than that.
Also, even if a 59 is just a magnet swap away from an APH-2 that doesn't help the OP, because he has neither. I'm sure they sound alike, and that'll be good advice for someone who has 59's, but the OP finds burstbuckers too harsh for his ears. I recommended the pearly gates because I like the set in a les paul for classic and southern rock. And my apologies too for the little discourse between myself and the Usual, it has been a mild thread hijack of sorts.

Also, I feel as though I should say this: These are my opinions, and as is the nature of opinions both myself and the usual are probably right.

 

[theodie]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

Yeah, but I like to give SD the benefit of the doubt. They have been kind enough to give us this forum, and when one of the administrators attempts to set something straight, I usually stand behind them. But this doesn't mean I disagree with you, I'm not going to say that my truth is the absolute truth. You say you have a bunch of high-end, vintage amps, and that the '59 w/ A2 and the APH sound identical through them. I'm not saying you're wrong, because I can't hear the world through your ears. What I do is pass along the information I get from the people who make the pickups. If they were lying to us (which I have no reason to believe that they are), then they are intentionally misrepresenting their products. There's a pretty significant price difference between an APH-II and the Pearly Gates/ Seth Lover models, and I want to believe that SD is a bit more ethical than that.
Also, even if a 59 is just a magnet swap away from an APH-2 that doesn't help the OP, because he has neither. I'm sure they sound alike, and that'll be good advice for someone who has 59's, but the OP finds burstbuckers too harsh for his ears. I recommended the pearly gates because I like the set in a les paul for classic and southern rock. And my apologies too for the little discourse between myself and the Usual, it has been a mild thread hijack of sorts.

Also, I feel as though I should say this: These are my opinions, and as is the nature of opinions both myself and the usual are probably right.

I cant say either way about the pickups in question but, it is sort of Duncans way of production.

JB, DD, Invader, same coils. Different mags and poles.

C5, CC, C5, and I suspect the Full shred, all in the same boat too.


Now, I bet there is a family or 2 of vintage output buckers that have more than alot in common with each other. Not to mention, various neck pickups like the Invader, Full shred, Jazz, all probably being the same family. I cant name which vintage output pickups belong to the same group becasue I dont know but, I certainly assume some are at least cousins if not siblings.



I should add, there is not a thing wrong with doing it this way either. It is cost efficient to produce, makes a great product, and the savings can be passed along to the consumer.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

i agree that there are probably similar coils used in pups but the paf range is what i use most and have the most experience with. an aph and seth dont sound the same to me, potted or not.

the pg is the billy gibbons pup but not mismatched. im also 99.9% sure that both coils use the same #42 wire.

as far as the full shred being the same as the custom family with the allen head poles, might be, dont know but i wouldnt be surprised. if some one buys me one of each ill disect them and let ya know

thicker and cheaper metal covers do kill high end but usually not in a good way. good quality and thinner covers do make a difference but its not all that dramatic. do i notice a difference, yes.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

hmmm....a custom shop order for a mismatched PG maybe?

 

[Aceman]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

You can spend $200 on a set of PG's or $10 on a couple A2 magnets. Hmmm...

Please don't do the newbie thing and keep throwing money at new PU's, until you've twaeked what you have. Your BBP's have A5's; pop in A2's and you have something close to a PG, and it may be just what you want. Save your money.

BB1/2's with a2's....He may well be right! I'd try it.

 

[Christopher Caruana]

Re: Pearly Gates and Les Pauls / Advice please

I've decided I don't really care for the BB Pros in my '06 Les Paul. They seem more harsh than sweet to my ears. I've lowered them some, but they still just don't really do it for me.

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with a PG in the bridge of a Les Paul. I have one in the bridge of an alder fat Strat and it sounds amazing, so I was thinking of going that route with the Standard. I'm playing through Marshalls, DSL50 and JCM 900 Mk III, Greenback 4 x 12, G12T75 2 x 12, V30 2 x 12....Billy Gibbons, Joe Perry, Warren Haynes,... mostly classic and southern stuff.

Coupla questions for you guys in the know, as I've never been one to switch pickups around a whole lot. What SD pup would be a good compliment in the neck for the PG? Does the nickel cover differ much in tone from an open coil pup? Should I even be thinking about the PG in the bridge, or is there a better combo I should be looking at?

Any feedback (ha) would be appreciated. Thanks!

ok so i do not know anything about the PG's cuz im not a big zz top fan. so were the PG's based off of the P.A.F.'s that were in billy gibbons '59 les paul?