Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

Jazzfiend101

New member
Basically it's self explanatory... but not really. Okay, so I have a really thick bodied Epi Les Paul Custom that weighs a ton. I swapped the bridge for a Pearly Gates and stuck an APH-1 in the neck. Was I going for a Billy Gibbons tone in the bridge and a Sweet Child tone in the neck. Yes. Did it work. NO! Haha, of course not, but hey that's fine my guitar still sounds better than most other guys in town anyway so whatever...

Buuuut...

One thing I've never liked about the PG is that my pinch harmonics die out too soon. They don't sustain. They ping, and weee, and squeal for like a second, and then it's just string noise rubbing against the fretboard. I thought to myself, okay, maybe I'm not hitting the right spot (that's what she said) and should practice more. I'm a Randy Rhoads kid. I picked up on Zakk Wylde's and EVH's (and Billy G's) tendency to really wrangle and wiggle harmonics out like a sonic seesaw - the notes bounce up and down like a ball whenever they hit those squeals. Guys like that, and guys like Dimebag Darrell could hit one and make it vibrato from here till sunday. Of course those guys played through heavily overdriven, cranked stacks of plexis JCM 800s and walls of thick distortion. Now, I know that the level of distortion plays a big role in the lasting effect of a pinch harmonic, and while I'm not a "gain on 10 + treble on 11 = good sound", which usually isn't the case, I do use a fair amount of distortion. I try to sit between an early EVH meets GNR 80s sort of distortion. Midrangy, jangly, still warm, if I can be. I play through a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 50, and before anybody goes on hating on that amp, mine isn't too bad, actually. I play smaller gigs in a smaller town and have decided that until I get famous and filthy stinking rich and can afford hot-rodded plexis and Silver Jubilees and huge stacks of 150watt Mesas like my favorite bands The Darkness, I'll settle for my lower watt monster. She's the Wicked Witch of the West anyway (I have a little witch on my decal to separate me from the other wannabees in town).

Yes, but how do you run your amp?

If you're familiar with the JCM 2000, it has two channels. Clean and Ultra. Clean has a little switch option to boost it to Crunch. Not too much gain as the Ultra, but I've never liked my Ultra Channel anyway, or rather because of this problem. I run my mids way the hell up because this amp is a fairly sterile, tinny, ice picky beeotch. My treble usually sits on 3 or 4. It never goes past noon. Bass knob stays pretty high and since I play it through a 2x12 open back with whichever 75w Celestions are the opposite of Vintage 30s, (I think they are G12T 75's) I'm prone to using the JCM 2000's "Deep Switch" which really throws some bottom end on the mix (I have to back the bass off as this will muddy the hell out of my sound). Presence knob? Nope. I barely use it. The amp set up this way already is almost a trebley ice pick in your ear.

Since I do not use the red channel I have found ways to make my clean channel pretty entertaining and raunchy. I read somewhere that Gary Moore used DSLs' clean (green) channels and hit them with overdrive pedals. I found that to get me the best sounding distortion out of the amp. And since Gary Moore is basically like the best guitar player ever I figured, hey if it worked for him, maybe it work for me. While it's certainly not, plug into a JCM 800 and automatically have instant gratification, and while it does involve tap dancing and volume knob persuasion to get the clean sound vs the heavy sound when my band plays/changes songs, it seems to work for my broke ass.

So what does it do when it doesn't do what it's supposed to already be doing that isn't being done right???

Okay, so I plug in my one Les Paul with the SeyDunc hot rodded humbucker set. The JB wails. Pinch harmonics are as angry as Zakk Wylde's. I have another Les Paul with a matched '59 set in which I absolutely love to death. That guitar sounds great, it sounds so good. And whenever I hit harmonics on it, it sings really great. This particular guitar I've let another friend of mine borrow for his 80s band gig, and he uses a really hot JCM 800 Lead series from 1987. When he's played it, it's wicked harmonics have rivaled his JB Les Paul and his other Custom loaded with EMGs.

It's the PG guitar that has the issue. It's the one that contains the pickup that you buy specifically so you can do crazy pinch harmonics. Whenever I hit a note, it sustains greatly. Whenever I hit that same note on a pinch harmonic spot, it weee's for a second and then nothing. As a matter of fact, when I'm playing in 5th position A major and hit my G string harmonics like Randy does in "I Don't Know" my note dies. I thought, maybe it's because my guitar is tuned in standard (my other two are a half step down and dont have this issue.) I notice that many times when I do this particular trick the guitar actually translates my note into immediate "controlled feedback." You guys know about that right? You touch a note and it makes some sweet feedback come atcha at the drop of a dime? Yeah that's great... except when I just want a frickin long lasting harmonic.

This is the process, if I can't spell it out any clearer.

I hit the harmonic. The harmonic sings for a second. The harmonic dies quickly. Short teeny pause of silence followed by a growing bit of feedback I that can have its pitch controlled by how I move the strings.

So did I get a crappy PG pickup? Where do I assess this problem? My dad's was a luthier at Guitarcenter once and even he is dumbfounded as to why this guitar basically shuts down my pinch harmonics.

Ya failed me, Billy G!! lol

Somebody help.
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

I'm not even gonna lie...I didn't read even a fourth of your post as it's a little long winded (no offence) but if I am skimming correctly you have several LP or LP style guitars and the one with the PG won't squeal to your liking...

So I ask, what are the full details on all the guitars in question??
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

1. Epi Les Paul Standard (Virginia)
Really heavy. Tobacco burst. Weighs close to 10lbs.
She's set with the SeyDunc Hot rodded set (SH Jazz neck and JB bridge). Sound's great (except for a scratchy jack and some pretty used frets that need some dressing)

2. Epi Les Paul Standard (Roxanne)
Not so heavy. She may weigh as little as 7 or 8lbs, but I do not believe she is chambered, as that's some care and dedication that I doubt the Korean market cares to apply to guitars. Red Sunburst.
Matched '59 set in neck and bridge.
60s "slim" neck, as the other two have fatter more 50s-esque necks. Sounds like... awesome.

3. Epi Les Paul Custom (Dorothy)
Heavy. Between 9 and 10 lbs she's a slab of mahogony. White custom finish.
Set with an Alnico 2 Pro (not the Slash Signatures, just the original... or I guess whatever Slash has really been using for like 20 years) and Pearly Gates in the bridge.

Mk, I knew string size was a huge factor in this, and I'll say this, the bridge pups of the 59 and the JB are set closer to the strings, but not stupid close. I'm sorry I can't provide exacto measurements as I just don't own a ruler. I eyeball a lot of that stuff, and check it with my ears.

I've played with the PG's bridge pickup height close to the strings, far from the strings and about mid way through the strings, and this problem still persists, and I'm not really able to tell if the issue gets worse when the pickup was raised or lowered. As a matter of fact, this problem is so persistent that up until I got one of the other guitars I thought the whole "YOur pickup will like respond so much differently when it's like all raised and like lowered," was a bunch of crap... but it obviously isn't. It has greatly retarded the process of me deciphering what exactly the hell happens when you raise and lower your pickup, on that guitar, however.

And I'm not going to say I have perfect technique, but when I'm hittin the bottle too much on stage I typically just don't even want to reach for the "white guitar" in favor of the other two because I just don't wanna put up with the pickup crap problems. I have enough to worry about when I'm a bit tipsy onstage and a guitar that won't squeal for more than a second is out of my options of hazy judgment at that point.
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

Could be something as simple as the gain level at the front end of the amp (JB>PG), or the pickup height.
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

Well you're right. I will say the more gain I pump out the more apparent this problem is. Like, when I'm like... playing and stuff, and hit these harmonics and they just get drowned in feedback it's not uncommon for me to play it off and control the pitch and sorta... ride the wave. But man, when you wind of doing this with like every solo, the trademark wears off and it really discourages me from even whipping out a pincher on that guitar. It's almost like, okay rule numero uno: don't play squealies on Dorothy.

I just don't want to switch out a pickup and find the problem to still be apparent, but I'm afraid I may wind up having to do that. I just don't really have the money to go around replacing pickups. I'm torn in the way that I just need my gear to do its job, so I can do my job. But don't we all?
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

Sounds to me like an issue of set up and technique...I know you are getting the harmonics with the JB but that's a lot hotter pickup than the PG and more output makes it easier.

With any guitar loaded with any humbucker into a JCM2000 you should be able to get harmonics all day long...my amps are MUCH lower gain than a DSL and I can pinch harmonics at will in any position on any guitar including a Strat or Tele...
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

This is totally true... But what of my 59 bridge? That bad boy will hold a squeal much longer than the PG, and I know the PG has a bit more output than the 59.
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

Have you tryed swapping pickups between Dorthy and one of the others? (I may have missed this) Maybe its the guitar instead of the pickup.
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

This is totally true... But what of my 59 bridge? That bad boy will hold a squeal much longer than the PG, and I know the PG has a bit more output than the 59.

PG and 59 are about the same output but the 59 tends to have a bit more firm low end and more top end spike to it which might very well be helping...

The other issue could be the guitar...the Epi that has the PG in it might be the issue...or the overall set up...there are a lot of possible issues but in my experience technique goes a LOT way to things like harmonics, etc.
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

This is totally true... But what of my 59 bridge? That bad boy will hold a squeal much longer than the PG, and I know the PG has a bit more output than the 59.
PG has an A2 mag and the 59 uses a more powerful and brighter A5. Maybe the A2 in that particular PG is extra weak? Put the A5 mag into the PG and see what happens.
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

if the A5 is too much, the UOA5 is an excellent step between the A2 and the A5.

but definitely double check the setup on the guitar as a starting point. after that, look at tweaking the amp settings. but being used to a JB and Jazz and some '59s, you are not really having an apples-to-apples comparison. I wanted to like the PG and had a similar experience...the idea of the PG was so interesting to me that I kept on and on, hoping it was something else... but it wasn't.
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

I hit the harmonic. The harmonic sings for a second. The harmonic dies quickly.
I have a really thick bodied Epi Les Paul Custom that weighs a ton
there is the root of your problem.
There is nothing wrong with your pickups or amp: the pg is a good pickup and your amp is built for screaming harmonics.
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

Okay gibson, so you think the weight of the wood can mean the make or break between sustaining an artificial harmonic? My dad told me that when he's building guitars he takes note of the density of the wood, but when it comes to pickups he's old-school; he'll stick something in there and if it doesn't do what he wants it to do he changes it out. He says he's had a bit of experience and know-how when it comes to what "PAF" styled buckers to shove in a type of guitar.

And JollyJ, that track you gave me was pretty inspiring. I can tell you aren't doing the most complicated riffing and soloing beyond just making magic with your guitar. I could definitely be happy with a similar lead tone, but my pinch squeals just don't last as long as you're wrenching them out. Very cool stuff, but I just don't think my PG and my Epi will do that.

Also, I don't want to get it twisted, while I don't have perfect technique, I can usually whip out a pinch harmonic quick on the fat bottom strings or the top skinny strings. And the sound it makes when I "miss" a pinch harmonic is different than when I hit it and it just sorta... quiets down and dies out (occasionally turning into Hendrixy feedback on a whim). So, I know it's really hard to explain, and I wish I had a way of recording it. I'm thinking about taking my Samsung back into the room I was experimenting in with the three guitars, recording it, uploading it to Youtube and showing you fellows, as I think that'd explain more... but I don't know how I could make that happen...

Anywho, I'm taking all the feedback thus far, so any more thoughts? Feelings?
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

Some of the guys mentioned the set-up. The bridge/saddles can play a big part in this. You can upgrade very reasonably with a gotoh. It made a big difference on my Epi goldtop.
 
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Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

I notice that my 59 bridge has a much fuller bottom end to its sound whereas th pg sounds thin, sort of tinny ice picky at times and shrill. And I think I confuse this with the pickup sounding weaker in my guitar. Basically it sorta lacks balls. Or at least that's how I feel? Would a magnet swap help kick it up a notch, because a notch is all it needs
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

Stick an A3 or A4 mag in it, and check back.
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

Stick an A3 or A4 mag in it, and check back.

What sound would I expect from those two? I have an A5 in the 59b so would the a3 or a4 be a step up in balls from an a2 or a step down in balls from an a5. Which would provide the smoothest balls with fuller bottom and thicker feel without narrowing or compressing the balls too much?

I like that my pg cuts thru the mix, and how the mids are pronounced, but my treble stays low so my bottom can get thru. Guys like the Darkness keep their treble low to let that bottom balls out. Slash set his treble lower at times, and how he uses low output a2 buckers and still gets a biting tone is completely beyond me. But billy gibbons must have some kind of bass booster because his tone is so full and clear, and his solos have enormous balls with an almost incoherent blend of fuzz with clear crisp attack.

Would somebody tell me what spongy means?
 
Re: Pearly Gates in Les Paul won't get lasting harmonics?? What is up here???

Okay gibson, so you think the weight of the wood can mean the make or break between sustaining an artificial harmonic?
what i mean is that any kind of sustain or harmonic response is first and foremost the acoustic properties of the guitar as an acoustic instrument. Pickups, pedals and amps can only compress and amplify the natural qualities inherent in the instrument.
See how long you can get your artificial harmonics to ring acoustically. Compare the response to other guitars and see what you find. You might find (as others have mentioned) that you can gain some sustain and harmonic presence with a good setup or possibly even a new set of strings, but you might find that no matter what you do, some guitars are just better than others. Also check your pickup heights - too close to the strings and the magnetic pull can interfere with natural string vibration. I've played some nice epiphones and ive played some that might as well have been made of particle board. Do everything you can to get the artificial harmonics to ring acoustically. Once that is sorted out, the pickups can do their job and take it all to another level. What im saying in short is don't blame the pickups until you are sure that the notes are ringing well acoustically because artificial harmonics is one of the things PG's do particularly well.
 
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