Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
- Thread starter NewWave
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
TAKE NOTICE PEOPLE...TGWIF AND BM335 JUST AGREED ON A POST...IT MUST BE TRUE!!!!!
TAKE NOTICE PEOPLE...TGWIF AND BM335 JUST AGREED ON A POST...IT MUST BE TRUE!!!!!
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
I'm not here long enough, but what's wrong with you two lol.. I suppose one is more theoritical and the other one is more practical (I'm not saying who's one and who's the other :flowers1
? I don't use gain much just to live up the tone abit. I don't think I need potted pups either, what about antiquities? sorry if this is OOT, but what do you think about 59 vs ant.. or maybe I should make another thread with title "59 vs Antiquities". :fingersx:
I'm not here long enough, but what's wrong with you two lol.. I suppose one is more theoritical and the other one is more practical (I'm not saying who's one and who's the other :flowers1
? I don't use gain much just to live up the tone abit. I don't think I need potted pups either, what about antiquities? sorry if this is OOT, but what do you think about 59 vs ant.. or maybe I should make another thread with title "59 vs Antiquities". :fingersx:
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
Which two are you talking about?!
59's and Ants are both great PAF style pickups...I have and use both in different guitars so I'll give you my thoughts.
Ants are very warm, soft and woody sounding but still have a nice cut to them, a good midrange snarl and can still crunch up very well as well as having a big woody clean tone.
The 59's are tighter in the lows, slightly more scooped in the mids and have a sharper top end, more articulate under lots of gain and in their own way do sound bigger than the Ants mostly due to the bigger more firm low end and extended top end...they seem to take up more sonic space but they are not as sweat as the Ants clean or under crunch conditions.
Both are killer pickups and I like them both a lot.
Seth are a lot like the Ants but a little weaker and a little warmer to me. The 59's remind me a lot of the Pat # pickup in my ES-335 buy are stronger and louder/more powerful sounding with a more low end and a more slicing top end...not more treble really, just a stronger treble if that makes sense.
I'm not here long enough, but what's wrong with you two lol.. I suppose one is more theoritical and the other one is more practical (I'm not saying who's one and who's the other :flowers1
Which two are you talking about?!
59's and Ants are both great PAF style pickups...I have and use both in different guitars so I'll give you my thoughts.
Ants are very warm, soft and woody sounding but still have a nice cut to them, a good midrange snarl and can still crunch up very well as well as having a big woody clean tone.
The 59's are tighter in the lows, slightly more scooped in the mids and have a sharper top end, more articulate under lots of gain and in their own way do sound bigger than the Ants mostly due to the bigger more firm low end and extended top end...they seem to take up more sonic space but they are not as sweat as the Ants clean or under crunch conditions.
Both are killer pickups and I like them both a lot.
Seth are a lot like the Ants but a little weaker and a little warmer to me. The 59's remind me a lot of the Pat # pickup in my ES-335 buy are stronger and louder/more powerful sounding with a more low end and a more slicing top end...not more treble really, just a stronger treble if that makes sense.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
Below is the promised picture, done with two screenshots pasted to each other.
The blue line shows the frequency response of a covered SH55. Its coils are matched: 4k and 4.01k. Their inductances are of 1.9H and 1.94H respectively, if memory serves me (the difference being due to the difference of metallic mass in slugs and screws).
The red line translates the response of the uncovered SHPG1 mentioned in my previous post (3.99 K / 1.89H & 4.14 K / 1.98 H for its respective coils).
One can see the extended and smooth high frequencies in the spectrum of the SH55: according to my tests, it's due to the unpotted structure AND to the symetrical coils, as well as to the baseplate without holes below the slugs.
The spectrum of the PG, conversely, has a "knee" due to potting AND to the "unmatched" response of its coils. This response is not due to the DCR of each coil: it's due to the holes below the slugs, which modify the magnetic behaviour of the related coil.
The APH1 (that I've owned as well) has the same kind of "knee" in its response for the same reasons. If necessary, I'll post the screenshot of its spectrum too.
Note that I've not said that anyone was wrong here (especially MJ, of course). Simply, IME, unmatched responses of coils and unmatched DCR's can be different things.
Answer posted for the sake of sharing with all the other Duncan users around the world.
Below is the promised picture, done with two screenshots pasted to each other.
The blue line shows the frequency response of a covered SH55. Its coils are matched: 4k and 4.01k. Their inductances are of 1.9H and 1.94H respectively, if memory serves me (the difference being due to the difference of metallic mass in slugs and screws).
The red line translates the response of the uncovered SHPG1 mentioned in my previous post (3.99 K / 1.89H & 4.14 K / 1.98 H for its respective coils).
One can see the extended and smooth high frequencies in the spectrum of the SH55: according to my tests, it's due to the unpotted structure AND to the symetrical coils, as well as to the baseplate without holes below the slugs.
The spectrum of the PG, conversely, has a "knee" due to potting AND to the "unmatched" response of its coils. This response is not due to the DCR of each coil: it's due to the holes below the slugs, which modify the magnetic behaviour of the related coil.
The APH1 (that I've owned as well) has the same kind of "knee" in its response for the same reasons. If necessary, I'll post the screenshot of its spectrum too.
Note that I've not said that anyone was wrong here (especially MJ, of course). Simply, IME, unmatched responses of coils and unmatched DCR's can be different things.
Answer posted for the sake of sharing with all the other Duncan users around the world.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
Thanks for clearing that up...:dunce:
Thanks for clearing that up...:dunce:
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
No, you don't need potted PU's. I think too many manufacturers pot too many of their PU models, but I guess that's to be expected in these days of metal and mega distortion (DiMarzio even takes the ridiculous precaution of glueing some of their magnets in place!).
I love Seth's, but I'm not impressed with Ant's. They have aged (degaussed) A2's, which have less treble and output than fully-charged A2's, which don't have a lot of either to begin with. The neck Ant was too dark and muffled (that's not a problem with Seths), and I couldn't get enough bite and cut from the bridge Ant, no matter how much treble I added at the amp, even with 500K's (also not a problem with Seths). Just too rounded on top for me, the treble 'stayed in the background' as it were. The common assumption is that Ant's "must be even better" than Seth's, which is what I thought until I got a set of Ant's. To get some treble and life in the things (Treble. Did you catch that Christian?) I put an UOA5 in the bridge and an A3 in the neck. For what they cost, I really don't think anyone should feel the need to change out the magnets.
No, you don't need potted PU's. I think too many manufacturers pot too many of their PU models, but I guess that's to be expected in these days of metal and mega distortion (DiMarzio even takes the ridiculous precaution of glueing some of their magnets in place!).
I love Seth's, but I'm not impressed with Ant's. They have aged (degaussed) A2's, which have less treble and output than fully-charged A2's, which don't have a lot of either to begin with. The neck Ant was too dark and muffled (that's not a problem with Seths), and I couldn't get enough bite and cut from the bridge Ant, no matter how much treble I added at the amp, even with 500K's (also not a problem with Seths). Just too rounded on top for me, the treble 'stayed in the background' as it were. The common assumption is that Ant's "must be even better" than Seth's, which is what I thought until I got a set of Ant's. To get some treble and life in the things (Treble. Did you catch that Christian?) I put an UOA5 in the bridge and an A3 in the neck. For what they cost, I really don't think anyone should feel the need to change out the magnets.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
Christian and I get along fine. This would be a pretty boring forum if everyone agreed on everything and everyone did everything the same way. There is no one-size-fits-all in guitars or music. The variety of tastes and approaches is what makes this forum so useful to so many players. I have a small but loyal following ('confused and misled' as Christian prefers to think of them) and we see things differently. Maybe some of us agree on the final goal, but take different paths to get there. When you get down to it, there's nothing here to get excited about, it's almost all opinions and tastes. We present ideas and options to the steady influx of new members; they can do what they want with the information. 99.9% of the world (including most guitarists) are totally bored by this stuff and think we're complete geeks.
Christian and I get along fine. This would be a pretty boring forum if everyone agreed on everything and everyone did everything the same way. There is no one-size-fits-all in guitars or music. The variety of tastes and approaches is what makes this forum so useful to so many players. I have a small but loyal following ('confused and misled' as Christian prefers to think of them) and we see things differently. Maybe some of us agree on the final goal, but take different paths to get there. When you get down to it, there's nothing here to get excited about, it's almost all opinions and tastes. We present ideas and options to the steady influx of new members; they can do what they want with the information. 99.9% of the world (including most guitarists) are totally bored by this stuff and think we're complete geeks.
Natman
New member
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
Bro, who ARE you? You measure Henries and plot frequency response curves? Are you Seymour's long-lost illegitimate child? We thought we had all the geek we needed up in this here forum and you come along and try to outshine everybody! I for one welcome that level of geekiness. It's pretty hardcore...
FWIW I did take my Seths apart to make hybrids and the coils were balanced (as much as any other bucker I've seen). I also agree with most of what has been said about the Seths & PG. My PG's are unpotted and still don't have quite as much "life" as the Seths. It's very close, and not a bad tone in the least. Seth bridge was too honky for me. Went with an unpotted SH-16b with an A2. Anyway...
Bro, who ARE you? You measure Henries and plot frequency response curves? Are you Seymour's long-lost illegitimate child? We thought we had all the geek we needed up in this here forum and you come along and try to outshine everybody! I for one welcome that level of geekiness. It's pretty hardcore...
FWIW I did take my Seths apart to make hybrids and the coils were balanced (as much as any other bucker I've seen). I also agree with most of what has been said about the Seths & PG. My PG's are unpotted and still don't have quite as much "life" as the Seths. It's very close, and not a bad tone in the least. Seth bridge was too honky for me. Went with an unpotted SH-16b with an A2. Anyway...
Below is the promised picture, done with two screenshots pasted to each other.
View attachment 38161
The blue line shows the frequency response of a covered SH55. Its coils are matched: 4k and 4.01k. Their inductances are of 1.9H and 1.94H respectively, if memory serves me (the difference being due to the difference of metallic mass in slugs and screws).
The red line translates the response of the uncovered SHPG1 mentioned in my previous post (3.99 K / 1.89H & 4.14 K / 1.98 H for its respective coils).
One can see the extended and smooth high frequencies in the spectrum of the SH55: according to my tests, it's due to the unpotted structure AND to the symetrical coils, as well as to the baseplate without holes below the slugs.
The spectrum of the PG, conversely, has a "knee" due to potting AND to the "unmatched" response of its coils. This response is not due to the DCR of each coil: it's due to the holes below the slugs, which modify the magnetic behaviour of the related coil.
The APH1 (that I've owned as well) has the same kind of "knee" in its response for the same reasons. If necessary, I'll post the screenshot of its spectrum too.
Note that I've not said that anyone was wrong here (especially MJ, of course). Simply, IME, unmatched responses of coils and unmatched DCR's can be different things.
Answer posted for the sake of sharing with all the other Duncan users around the world.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
LOL... I'm just an old fart who swaps pickups since the 80's for himself and for his friends. An "unofficial guitar tech", if you will. As such, I've discovered a few things about these coils that I often manipulate.
And I certainly don't want to outshine anybody, nor even to shine: I just try to share my thoughts and data of hobbyist (I'm the living proof that a man can be 50 years old and still be foolishly naive).
That's what I've noticed as well.
LOL... I'm just an old fart who swaps pickups since the 80's for himself and for his friends. An "unofficial guitar tech", if you will. As such, I've discovered a few things about these coils that I often manipulate.
And I certainly don't want to outshine anybody, nor even to shine: I just try to share my thoughts and data of hobbyist (I'm the living proof that a man can be 50 years old and still be foolishly naive).
That's what I've noticed as well.
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
Nice posts.. Even though I'm rather new to the fiddle world, I'm rather interested in these 'geek' stuffs. because I believe when you start playing the guitar, It's not for others but it's for yourself (when you play the guitar and express emotions through it and tone is crucial in the calculation even though other people say in a band situation "it doesn't matter") first before it reach other people (heart). @freefrog I assume from the graph, the PG is more trebly? and degrades precipitously(bad choice of words atleast that's what google translate tells me) while the seth is smooth till the end :eek13: what interests me is how did you measure that? (again rather new to the fiddle world so little to no knowledge):notworthy:
Nice posts.. Even though I'm rather new to the fiddle world, I'm rather interested in these 'geek' stuffs. because I believe when you start playing the guitar, It's not for others but it's for yourself (when you play the guitar and express emotions through it and tone is crucial in the calculation even though other people say in a band situation "it doesn't matter") first before it reach other people (heart). @freefrog I assume from the graph, the PG is more trebly? and degrades precipitously(bad choice of words atleast that's what google translate tells me) while the seth is smooth till the end :eek13: what interests me is how did you measure that? (again rather new to the fiddle world so little to no knowledge):notworthy:
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
Yes, the PG is more trebly and less open, while the Seth has a smoother high end. That said, these frequencies above 10khz are rather "felt" than heard.
My tests are done thx to a low impedance coil above the pickup. This coil excites the PU with a sweeping signal (20hz-20khz). The guitar is plugged in a 1M input, itself linked to a calibrated soundcard which feeds various softwares.
That said, these graphs don't show the "whole picture": they don't translate the dynamic behaviour of the tested PU's, for example. Reason why I also measure "impulse responses" and other things.
Last but not least: such experiments are interesting IMHO but they don't reveal anything about the "wow" factor: my feeling and vibes when I play a pickup are still my first way to "test" it. !-)
Yes, the PG is more trebly and less open, while the Seth has a smoother high end. That said, these frequencies above 10khz are rather "felt" than heard.
My tests are done thx to a low impedance coil above the pickup. This coil excites the PU with a sweeping signal (20hz-20khz). The guitar is plugged in a 1M input, itself linked to a calibrated soundcard which feeds various softwares.
That said, these graphs don't show the "whole picture": they don't translate the dynamic behaviour of the tested PU's, for example. Reason why I also measure "impulse responses" and other things.
Last but not least: such experiments are interesting IMHO but they don't reveal anything about the "wow" factor: my feeling and vibes when I play a pickup are still my first way to "test" it. !-)
AudioWonderland
New member
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
Then there is your answer. No humbucker in an LP is going to sound like a tele but if you are looking for clarity and chime the PG is about as good as it gets
Then there is your answer. No humbucker in an LP is going to sound like a tele but if you are looking for clarity and chime the PG is about as good as it gets
saladin
New member
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
the patent was about coils with the same number of turns of different sized wire, not more/less turns of the same size wire.
the patent was about coils with the same number of turns of different sized wire, not more/less turns of the same size wire.
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
So, to get back on topic, or rather to get off topic in another direction....
So, why not consider the P-Rails? The Rail coil gets a pretty good Tele-like sound especially when you add a bit of compression.
So, to get back on topic, or rather to get off topic in another direction....
So, why not consider the P-Rails? The Rail coil gets a pretty good Tele-like sound especially when you add a bit of compression.
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
I like this''great vs good'' comparison. Load ed in a Seth b to go with the Seth neck,tonite.Have used PG for a good amount of time also. Did like em, but was always something about them that wasn't ''just so''. Needed a magnet swap,to neck ''boomy etc. Just get a set of Seth's and call it done! If you want a great PAF sound! Great tone indeed.
I like this''great vs good'' comparison. Load ed in a Seth b to go with the Seth neck,tonite.Have used PG for a good amount of time also. Did like em, but was always something about them that wasn't ''just so''. Needed a magnet swap,to neck ''boomy etc. Just get a set of Seth's and call it done! If you want a great PAF sound! Great tone indeed.
