PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

[T ROCKER]

After agonizing over which high-end kit to build I decided on this:https://buy.precisionguitarkits.com/shop/lp-59-carved-top-our-best-seller

My other choice was a PVX double cutaway kit in the same price range, but I opted for the Les Paul style since I'm seriously missing the one I traded not long ago. The kit took less than a week to get here, and Phil at PGK never took more than an hour to respond to the 4 emails I sent him. It's true that the neck tenon fits so well that you can actually pick up the whole guitar by the neck, with any glue ! Here are some bad photos I took the day it arrived ....


I started this thread to share the adventure and to occasionally seek out advice from people who have far more experience at this type of thing than I do.
I'll be using water-based dye, without any pore filler on the mahogany, and then finishing it with several coats of tru-oil since I don't have spray equipment or the facilities to do that even if I wanted to. These kits don't come with hardware or electronics so I'll be gathering that stuff slowly, which is a good thing ; if I had all that in a pile I would probably rush the finishing process

Feel free to expound at length on this thread with any advice. Wish me luck !

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

That looks fun. I love plain tops. Good luck on the build.

 

[AlexR]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

I built a PVX kit not long ago. This is the result using spray-can nitro and stain.

Its possible

 

[CTN]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

congrats! looking forward to see this taking shape!

 

[TheLivingDead]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

I love these kinda threads.

 

[AlexR]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

Also check out this stewmac tutorial/step through:

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Finishing/Colors,_stains/a-blueguitar.html

Great tips for staining etc

 

[T ROCKER]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

Wow AlexR .... That PVX looks amazing ! Were there some stressful moments when you were laying down the stain ? I've been practicing some stains/colors with some maple planks , and even those give me plenty of tightrope style moments of panic since I always try to operate in the mindset that I'm staining the actual top of the guitar ....
I've been doing my best to prep the wood. These kits come sanded to 320 or so, but because it'll be a tru oil finish I have to be very meticulous when it comes to the final stages. I spent the wee hours sanding away, then tried some methyl hydrate instead of denatured alcohol (very hard to come by in Canada) to raise the grain. It didn't quite work for that purpose, but the surfaces of the guitar were clean after that, let me tell you.... Anyway, I finally opted just to damp the surfaces with water since I was on the way to bed and sure enough the wood fibers popped up like the fur on a wet dog. I've been repeating this process all morning with the hope that eventually those fibers will finally cease to pop up, and they seem to be....
My choices for hardware are as follows: Tonepros type II locking bridge/tailpiece, Tusq XL nut, Hipshot locking tuners (with the sweet-looking exposed gear). The pickups will be the Seymour Duncan 'hot rodded' set, wired Jimmy Page style for a possibility of 21 different sounds ,with 4 push/pull pots. I won't be sticking to anything too traditional, obviously, and I'll treat my choice of colors the same way. Years ago at the music store where I worked we got a PRS custom in that was a weird almost blood red to black burst , and it looked stunning. When I tried to achieve that same color scheme the other night on the practice wood it turned into a purplish color fading to almost black at the edges.... Any suggestions as to how to keep it more red ? Should I do a coat of red first, then let it dry completely before hitting it with the black ?

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

Maple should take stain directly onto the wood quite well. If it was me, I'd be concerned about how even the stain will be on the mahogany body, mostly the end-grain areas.

You could apply a sealer first, because it can be applied with a brush or by wiping. That might eliminate concerns about a possible blotchy result with the stain. AlexR can probably give you more details about these things.

The TruOil will change the colour of the stain .... it does have a colour of it's own, which intensifies with the number of coats, so you may want to experiment with that to see whether it is going to pervert the stained colour in a way that is unacceptable. I once stained a raw body red, but after a few coats of TruOil, it appeared as a slightly-reddish brown colour.

 

[T ROCKER]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

I did a practice run with some stain and about 10 coats of tru oil, just to see what kind of results I'd get with regards to color and 'sheen' ..... I'm quite happy with it . Not super glossy, but quite a bit shinier than satin. The back and neck will be stained black and I'm not overly concerned with blotching as long as it doesn't draw too much attention. I had a 'black' Les Paul BFG and it definitely lived up to it's ' barely finished guitar' namesake. Crusty ,do you have any suggestions for a type/brand of sanding sealer ? My concern is that it will interfere with the mahogany's ability to soak up a sh!tload of stain , since I want it to be very dark. Based on what I've read in several different threads in other forums, S/S can help a lot with the raised grain issue ....... Is that true ?

 

[AlexR]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

Both Crusty and I have done some projects which have turned out very well. Search for 'Crusty makes a Les Paul' for his great guitar.

The raising the grain is important of course, but if you use the stain lightly then its always possible to 'fix' to a certain degree. I used stewmac stain, which is very concentrated.....much moreso than the previous brand I used for another guitar. The upshot was that the PVX turned out a completely different colour to what I'd planned. In the end, the guitar is much more personal as it looks unique.
PVX gave me a small piece of both maple and mahogany to practice on. Essentially the 'burst' or darker colour I did over the top of the lighter colour which was wiped evenly over the top. I applied the darker stain as a wipe around the outside, then with a damp cloth I wiped from the inside out, essentially feathering the effect of the darker colour.

With the pickups, is the hotrodded set with a JB at the bridge?
I'd be wary of the JB in a LP - especially a solid body. They can have a godawful upper mid spike that makes it sound harsh. Its essentially a clash with the wood tone.

 

[T ROCKER]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

Hey AlexR, thanks for the heads-up about that pickup ... It's chambered; I wonder if that would make any difference? What pickup would you recommend ? I'm looking for something versatile enough to get a broad range of tones ... The BFG I had was equipped with a burstbucker I was so-so about, but it wasn't offensive. Those JB's are designed for straight mahogany bodies, or for something different ? I haven't ordered the pickups yet so I still have some time to choose ....
I'll be posting some pics of my experiments with the stain and tru oil, cuz I know pictures speak louder than words... I just have to borrow my Wife's camera ....

 

[T ROCKER]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

here is a picture of my dye experiment ... the photo doesn't really do it justice, but this color is starting to grow on me





.... and these are pics of the test chunk of mahogany, with several layers of tru oil, in some different colors. I'll be going with the basic black...





here is a shot of the plain top...



here is a close-up shot of some of the fibers that tend to pop up after a quick dampening with water ... this is after several dampening/sanding cycles. After the first soak i swear there were toothpicks popping out, now it's getting a lot better

 

[AlexR]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

I like the red stain you're getting in that later picture....are you going to try for some natural binding effect on the side??? That stewmac tutorial will be especially useful if you do.

Pickups:
The JB was designed for Jeff Beck, who at that time was playing an Ash Telecaster. The mid spike worked well in ash, which tends to be a bit thin on with mids......in fact the JB is almost a guaranteed hit in ash guitars.

The Chambered effect will alter the tone slightly, and give it more true mids and a more open tone (compared with the focused upper-ish mids of the solid body). Its a bit of semantics this tone description as they are subtleties here. Nonetheless I feel a stock JB (as well as being quite hot) will be a lottery.

I've got a chambered LP studio, and the best pickup I've had in this is a hybrid of a Custom and a Jazz....very close in nature to the C/59 hybrid that is available commercially. I've got mine with an A5 magnet, the tonal properties of this seem to mesh well with the natural chambered tone.
The Pearly gates neck would probably match well if you like neck pickups with bite. Other options include the '59, or A2pro if you want a smoother neck pickup.

 

[Grenade]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

I htink I'd try a Seth Lover set or maybe Bonnamasa set if the budget allows.

 

[T ROCKER]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

spent a good couple of hours looking around the interweb for pickups, and after some research I might opt for some with alnico II's, or possibly Vintage Vibe Guitar picjups which allow for different magnet options you can change yourself. Anybody out there have any opinions about those ? I'm also second-guessing my color scheme and might try something a bit more traditional since the red stain on the mahogany test piece looked so good ... possibly a yellow/amber on the top, since all my other guitars are darker in color. i'll definitely do the PRS style 'binding', and a few experiments with electrical tape worked beautifully to mask the stain. I sanded off a nice clean patch on my test maple to experiment with some other colors ... stay tuned, and once again wish me luck ...
Crusty I just want to say how impressed and inspired I was by your Les Paul body from scratch. That piece of mahogany couldn't have found a better fate than winding up in your hands

 

[T ROCKER]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

Well this thread might be a little dead, but my build certainly isn't. I opted to go slightly traditional with the color of the top , and finally found a nice amber/yellow i was happy with by adding tiny little increments of brown, red and black to the vivid yellow dye mix. I sanded a fresh patch of maple to test with and practice a little burst action, then I waited a day or two and studied it in all kinds of different light situations. I also took into account the fact that the tru oil will brown it ever so slightly.
My mind was made up so it was time to get to work taping and masking, to achieve the PRS 'binding'. I used the red colored electrical tape that worked fine from the previous test. The trick is to press REALLY hard when applying it and constantly checking to make sure it's on there and sticking ... I know different brands of tape stick better than others, and the stuff I have works perfectly. Electrical tape is flexible enough to go 'round the horn' , as can be seen in picture #2


I proceeded to stain the top with as even a layer of color as I could, with little 'ghosts' I made from an old Tshirt .....


then the real tricky part was trying to reproduce the burst I managed to get on the test piece with a darker amber shade... it was a little stressful, but I'm happy with the result




If the preview ain't lying then these photos are sideways, but my stupid Mac shows them to me properly and I have no idea how to fix that. Oh well; at least the pictures are there ....

 

[Grenade]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

Nice, really nice.

 

[ErikH]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

That top is looking nice. It's nice to see PGK getting some more love here.

 

[T ROCKER]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

Here are some more pics ..... I had the neck sitting on a shelf under my basement stairs, and when i came down them to work on the body, the neck jumped off the shelf and banged into a roadcase. There was a dent in the headstock just big enough to drive me crazy. This would be the first time I had to actually employ the old 'wet rag/soldering iron' trick. Just before I made my attempt I thought to take a 'before' pic to share with you guys (sorry for the slightly bad focus; my phone camera doesn't like close-ups)



It worked !! There is a tiny mark indicating that something transpired, but not nearly as bad as the dent that was there. I was very lucky this happened before any kind of finish got on there . . .



It was time to get some stain on the back and neck. I rubbed a few layers of tru-oil on the top so I could mask it properly without messing up the dye, and I was very pleasantly surprised by the subtle figures that jumped out from the supposedly 'plain' top. Also , the tru-oil gave it a very slight color shift to the dark side, which I was actually counting on since it was what happened with the test piece I experimented with . . .



I used your typical painter's masking tape and my trusty electrical tape for the edging to preserve the faux-binding. I was once again careful to press REALLY hard since it was a very narrow strip. I inspected it countless times to make sure it was good before I put any stain down . . .



My plan was to do a layer of straight up stain i bought at the big box hardware store , Saman 'cherry' , then darken it with a custom color I had worked on and practiced with on my test chunk of mahogany - but the stain looked so good I decided not to mess with it. I believe the saying is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". These pics will have to go in my next post .....

 

[T ROCKER]

Re: PGK carved top '59 kit ... first build !!

I borrowed my wife's camera (.... actually her phone, but works better than mine). My plan is to get a couple of layers of tru-oil on so I can glue the neck on without any of the wiping off of the excess glue messing with the stain




The electrical tape worked perfectly, but I had my fingers firmly crossed right up until the moment I pulled it off ....



I took a pic of the top in some natural light, and it's about as close to what it really looks like as I could get