Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

[hailmasch]

I've already decided that I want to use A5/A5 in the neck pickup. However - I am a newbie at this stuff, so I have a few questions before I actually purchase the magnets.

First off, how exactly do you take out the current magnets and put the new ones in? I was able to find plenty of threads talking about which magnets you should use, but I wasn't able to find one which showed/explained how to install the magnets.

Second off, where exactly can I purchase these magnets? Do I need to purchase a specific kind of magnet to put in the Phat Cat?

PS: When I use the Phat Cat in combination with the bridge humbucker in my Jagmaster, I get sort of a... quacky.. unpleasant tone. I can't really describe it. I don't notice it when playing through distortion, but its definitely noticeable without distortion. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Why does this happen? And, more importantly, have you done anything about it?

 

[lazyfinger]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

This is the thread that talks about all the magnets and its tonal properties:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=221172

I'd rank alnicos like this, in order of brightness, the darkest ones first:

RC A2, A2, UOA5, A6, A8, RC A4, A4, RC A3, RC A5, A3, A5.

So, depending on what you want to go treble-wise, choose accordingly.

For output:
High - A8, A6, A5
Medium - A4, UOA5
Low - A2, A3

Here goes (again):

A2 - Huge mids, rounded top, little treble, lots of dynamics, chewy texture, loose low end, low output, very 'vintage'. With the right wind, it's ample mids make a PU sound 'big'. With the wrong wind (or wood) it can sound muddy or flabby.

A3 - Like an A2, but with more treble and lighter on the mids. Mainly suited for the neck slot.

A4 - Balanced EQ, some consider it bland. No big push in treble, mids, or bass. Medium output. Good middle ground for when an A2 is too warm, or an A5 is too bright and scooped. Lets the PU's and wood's natural tones come thru.

A5 - Lots of treble and bass, scooped mids. Sharp high end. Tight low end. Relatively high output. The most common alnico (in it's polished and oriented form).

A8 - Moderate treble, good dose of mids. Firm low end. High output. Could be considered to be a bulked up A4. Suited for the bridge slot. Works in high and low output HB's and P-90's.

A6 - Like an A8, but with less treble. Very rare.

UOA5 - Sounds like a cross between an A2 and A5, with the best of both. Lots of warmth and dynamics, but with a dash of treble and decent output. Another middle ground option between A2's and A5's.

Roughcast - Pitted and lumpy surfaces create a more varied magnetic field. Any roughcast maget has smoother highs, with less harshness. Shifts the EQ slightly downwards. More subtle than an unoriented mag. Usually best in the bridge slot, whereas polished mags work better in the neck (sharper highs).

Unoriented - The internal 'grain' is random (instead of aligned in one direction), making for a complex magnetic field. Highs are softened and tones are more dymanic and 'vintage'. A2's, A3's, and A4's are always unoriented. A5's are almost always oriented.

You can purchase the mags from ebay from addictionfx:

http://stores.ebay.com/addictionfxguitarandsound

As for the combination sound, I think the phat cat must be out of phase with the humbucker.

Others can chime in about taking the phat cat apart.

 

[jake_xms3_punk]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

what i do is desolder the cover, well I use a cutting disk as its hard to melt the solder. carefully lift the cover from the side without the wire coming out.

i hold onto the bottom of the screw peices until i can grip the pickup. be carefull not to pull to hard on the cover as there is a wire attatched to it.
take one mag out and put the new one in so it is repelling with the stock one, then replace the other one making sure they are both repelling, put the cover back on and squeeze tight, resolder the cover back on and intall. hope that helps. it is really easy to do.

regarding the unpleasant quacky sound, the pickups are out of phase with each other, which humbucker do you have in the bridge? if its a duncan swap the green and black wires around.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

Welcome aboard!

The one thing you have to watch with Phat Cats is that one end of the cover has a ground wire attached, so that end won't lift up. You have to raise the other end. The mags may be stuck in place by wax, you can either push them out with a small screwdriver, or soften the wax with a blow dryer.

In P-90's the two mags are seated side-by-side so that they repel (not attract). I also like an A5/A4 mag combination in neck P-90's, for a little fuller sound.

Unlike other P-90's, the cover holds the whole PU together with Phat Cats, so it has to be resoldered on, make sure it's snug when you do.

As far as the sound of the PC and bridge HB together, see what a mag change does. If you don't already have independent volume control, you might want to consider that, as you can get many tone increments by adjusting both volume controls.

 

[hailmasch]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

Thanks for the help guys! And I'll try changing the wires if changing the magnets doesn't get rid of the unpleasant tone.

BTW, that is an awesome guitar in your avatar, jake_xms3_punk.

 

[jake_xms3_punk]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

Thanks for the help guys! And I'll try changing the wires if changing the magnets doesn't get rid of the unpleasant tone.

BTW, that is an awesome guitar in your avatar, jake_xms3_punk.

cheers man, something I put together last year.


let us know how your mag swapping goes.

 

[dbazille1970]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

I am using a Phat Cat Neck in a Cort MMP2 guitar. With the original A2 magnets it sounded a little to bass like for my taste so I tried a few differant magnet combinations and ended up using an RC UOA5 facing the neck and facing the bridge two 1/2 magnets. A 1/2 polished A2 near the pole screws and a 1/2 RC A3 facing the bridge. That combination gives strong wood like tones without being to harsh or to bright or to heavy. It is a comfortable to listen to sound that others that have heard it also like and even started asking questions about how am I getting these great tones. This really is an infinate subject that I and others find very interesting. I would advise people to try anything if they think it will give them the tone that they like. Just for others to consider when reading my post is that I have never heard a pickup with a polished A5 magnet that I liked. I have found that magnet to be to bright and ear piercing in every polished A5 pickup that I have heard.

 

[Discharged]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

Necro-threading alert!!!!

/Peter

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

I like A5/A4 in the neck and A8/A4 in the bridge the most. The pickup orientation on the neck doesn't matter all that much, but the bridge pickup almost requires that you put the A8 farther away from the bridge.

 

[Artie]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

It would be kinda cool if Duncan did with Phat Cats what they did with Custom series. Offer a couple or three mag variations. If one version dramatically outsells the others, make that the standard. Or keep all three.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

It would be kinda cool if Duncan did with Phat Cats what they did with Custom series. Offer a couple or three mag variations. If one version dramatically outsells the others, make that the standard. Or keep all three.

I've been saying that for years. A2's just aren't the magnet in those that is going to appeal to the largest number of potential customers. Most of them are likely looking for a P-90 sound in a Gibson-ish design humbucker guitar: crisp P-90 highs and a piano-like low end. That's not what you get with Phat Cats. With A2's you give up that high end and firm low end. An A5 Phat Cat version would be great, and while they're at it, they should add two screws to attach the coil to the baseplate. As it is currently, they're loose and everything's held together by the cover being soldered on. Even HB's with covers have screws to hold the coils to the baseplate.

That would give Duncan a real P-90 sound in an HB-size, and to be able to compete better with the other companies making them. After that, Duncan might look at taking a step further and offer Phat Cats with A4's or A3's, or a combination of A5/A3/A4 between the bridge and neck models.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

It would be kinda cool if Duncan did with Phat Cats what they did with Custom series. Offer a couple or three mag variations. If one version dramatically outsells the others, make that the standard. Or keep all three.

I agree as well. I think the UOA5 mags in a Phat Cat should be a standard offering...very nice upgrade over the stock.

 

[dbazille1970]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

Right now I am trying in a Phat Cat neck installed in a Gibson Les Paul Studio an RC UOA5 facing the neck and 2 1/2 magnets on the other side. The 2 1/2 magnets are , toward the center a 1/2 polished A2 and toward the bridge a 1/2 RC A4. It is a little dark sounding for my taste so I am considering replacing the bridge side magnets with some type of A5. I am considering 3 different types of an A5 , polished , UOA5 , and RC UOA5 to get the pickup to be a little brighter. Any ideas from others are welcome.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

Right now I am trying in a Phat Cat neck installed in a Gibson Les Paul Studio an RC UOA5 facing the neck and 2 1/2 magnets on the other side. The 2 1/2 magnets are , toward the center a 1/2 polished A2 and toward the bridge a 1/2 RC A4. It is a little dark sounding for my taste so I am considering replacing the bridge side magnets with some type of A5. I am considering 3 different types of an A5 , polished , UOA5 , and RC UOA5 to get the pickup to be a little brighter. Any ideas from others are welcome.

A5/A3 sounds nice in the neck for a Phat Cat. It doesn't matter what orientation you have it in, but I always put the A5 closer to the bridge.

 

[dbazille1970]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

Update from post number 7.

I am using a Phat Cat Neck in a Cort MMP2 guitar. With the original A2 magnets it sounded a little to bass like for my taste so I tried a few differant magnet combinations and ended up using an RC UOA5 facing the neck and facing the bridge two 1/2 magnets. A 1/2 polished A3 near the pole screws and a 1/2 polished A5 facing the bridge. The combination in post number 7 was a bit to woody or blues like sounding and I decided that I wanted the pickup to be a little brighter and chimey and with this most recent magnet change I got what I wanted. You can still get the blues tone , but now a bit brighter and a little chimey. This magnet combination works very well for my taste. I can now get a wider range of tones depending on where I pick the strings. If someone thinks they want something even brighter they could use a full polished A5 magnet on the bridge side of the pickup. Any comments or opinions are always welcome.

 

[dbazille1970]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

Update from post number 15.

I most recently changed the Phat Cats magnets again. This time I am using a RC UOA5 facing the neck and a RC A8 facing the bridge. I am getting more of the bodies wood resonance. Will update with more detail in a few days.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

I agree as well. I think the UOA5 mags in a Phat Cat should be a standard offering...very nice upgrade over the stock.

UOA5's need to be used in factory HB's too. It quickly became my favorite magnet after i took the plunge and bought some when Addiction FX showed up here (after Wymore left, the forum's previous magnet dealer). I may have been the first one here to buy UOA5's from Addiction, and put the first one in a Custom 5 (SH-14). Wow. What rich tones.

 

[dbazille1970]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

Dear Blueman335 ,
Have you compared the RC UOA5 with the polished UOA5 ?
If so what are your thoughts on these 2 ? So far I am finding myself
using RC A8 s and RC UOA5 s in a lot of places including a
Gibson 500T.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

if i have a choice, i tend to like polished magnets in the neck and roughcast in the bridge. the rc seems to take a bit of edge off which i like in the bridge but not the neck

 

[blueman335]

Re: Phat Cat Magnet Swapping

Dear Blueman335 ,
Have you compared the RC UOA5 with the polished UOA5 ?
If so what are your thoughts on these 2 ? So far I am finding myself
using RC A8 s and RC UOA5 s in a lot of places including a
Gibson 500T.

All of the UOA5's I've seen for sale have been roughcast, so that's all I've used. I'd like to have some polished ones, to use in neck HB's for a bit sharper high-end.

The A8's I've seen have been rough cut, not roughcast, which means saw markings, but not sand indentations. I don't know if if that's because of the different metals used, or just a tradition that's followed. I don't think rough cut magnets have as much influence on the tone as roughcast (sandcast) do.

I was an A8 fan for years, until UOA5's came out. I had pulled the polished A5's out of my bridge HB's and replaced them with A8's, then pulled those and went with UOA5's. For what I play, classic rock & blues, I prefer PAF-type tones and keep heading in that direction in my pickup & magnet choices. If I played hard rock & meal, I'd still be using mostly A8's.