Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

[gombotz]

Hello everyone
I have this set installed in an Asian guitar (Harley Benton CST24).
From the first string strumming with these new pups, I have noticed that the G (3rd) and D (4th) string are a little bit darker than the rest. In a mix situation, it feels a little more pronounced. At least for my taste. I have to say that this is my first interaction with P90-ish type of pickups. I’ve never played the P90 nor the humbucker sized P90.
I recorded just a sample with 2 notes on each string for each pickup.
I’m curios about your opinions regarding the G and C string being darker vs the rest. Do you notice the difference? Or is just a normal thing for P90-ish type of pickups?
Cheers.


https://soundcloud.com/mihai-gombotz/phat-cat-mud

 

[AlexR]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

Try raising the poles a bit. I've not listened to the clip btw, its just that those 2 strings sit further from the pickup anyhow, and raising poles is a way of adding more bite for any pickup.

And yes, the Phat Cat is known for being muddy. You can put in other magnets if it continues being muddy even after adjustments.

 

[gombotz]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

Thnks AlexR.
Already tried that and the result seem to tighten the sound for drive and rising the level for clean, but nothing about the dark sound.
Also have the 500k pots.

Maybe that's the specific sound for these pups.
Cheers.

 

[Blille]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

You say mud, I say warm.



IMHO it’s fine, but if you lower the whole pickup you will get clarity across the board which you may like and it may also help with the difference.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

Tried Phat Cats in several guitars: the neck was dark and overpowered the bridge, which was 'weak & puny' (Zhang quote) in comparison. Zhang said the neck is wound hot and he took 1,000 turns off his to get some high end. That's not practical for most of us. I swapped out magnets, trying a variety of combinations, sharing my exploits here. I settled on an A5/A4 for the neck to get some treble & clarity, and an A8/A4 in the bridge for additional output, fuller mids, & warmth.

P-90's are considered by some to be the Gold Standard of pickup tone, with crisp high ends and piano like low ends. That's usually accomplished with A5 magnets. Phat Cats have A2's, which have a soft high end and a loose low end. They really don't sound anything like true P-90's, nor apparently, were they intended to. They were an early entry into the HB-sized single coil market, and companies that followed stayed closer to the beloved classic P-90 sound, which is what most players want in an HB-size single coil.

They'd probably work better overall in bright woods, but most are likely to end up in Gibson design guitars with warm woods, as it turns an ordinary HH guitar into a 1950's-style P-90 version (of which there is a limited selection).

 

[BluesIsBlood12]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

I have them in a Tele. I wouldn't say they're muddy, exactly, though you can definitely tell they're A2 magnets. I'd probably like them better with a little crisper feeling magnet. In that guitar the bridge is not "weak & puny" though, nor does the neck overpower it, but I do have the neck set quite low. I do that with most neck humbuckers as well to balance the perceived volume with the bridge.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

P-90's are considered by some to be the Gold Standard of pickup tone, with crisp high ends and piano like low ends. That's usually accomplished with A5 magnets. Phat Cats have A2's, which have a soft high end and a loose low end. They really don't sound anything like true P-90's, nor apparently, were they intended to. They were an early entry into the HB-sized single coil market, and companies that followed stayed closer to the beloved classic P-90 sound, which is what most players want in an HB-size single coil.

Phat Cats were originally an OEM creation for the Hamer Newport; they weren't offered for retail sale until a couple years later. The original Newport is a full hollow with a Spruce top which isn't very typical construction. I've played one and they sound great, but I wouldn't call it classic P-90 tone. It was one of the few instances where I liked an A2 pickup in a Gibson scale guitar.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

Mag swaps really help the PC. I assume you're talking about the neck. I have A5/A6 in mine and love it. A5/A9 would be even brighter.

 

[gombotz]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

Thnks for the input.
Swaping the magnets seems like a complicated procedure

Clint55, blueman335 is this procedure doable by a not so experimented person with this kind of stuff?

Or better sell them as they are and buy something else instead?
Cheers,

 

[BluesIsBlood12]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

Thnks for the input.
Swaping the magnets seems like a complicated procedure

Clint55, blueman335 is this procedure doable by a not so experimented person with this kind of stuff?

Or better sell them as they are and buy something else instead?
Cheers,

For humbuckers it is very easy, and I highly encourage it. However, from what I gather about the Phat Cat it can be tricky. Definitely have someone explain it to you, and I'm sure someone has probably posted about it here already.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

I definitely recommend doing it. You can adjust the tone to your preference. You need a hacksaw blade to cut through the solder that connects the cover to the baseplate. Then you need a high powered soldering iron to put it back. Swap the mags in with the same pole orientation as before and you're good.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

Phat Cats have some quirks that other HB-size P-90's don't. The cover is soldered on, and holds the whole PU together, which is bizarre. There's no screws at the baseplate to attach to the coil, unlike every other P-90 in the world. They also don't have a 3rd wire for a separate ground. Maybe Duncan was going for an eccentric single coil PU to set that Hamer apart. All of the other HB-size P-90's I've seen stayed closer to the original P-90's with baseplate screws, 3rd wire, and A5 magnets. They evidently thought the concept of P-90's for HH guitars was a great idea, but maybe believed Duncan went off track, and wanted a PU with broader appeal. From what I've seen, players are after real P-90 tones that are used in songs they love, and not a big single coil that does it's own thing.

I got Phat Cats for an SG wanting to get something like the Who's Live at Leeds, or classic Leslie West. They were nowhere near that.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

I got Phat Cats for an SG wanting to get something like the Who's Live at Leeds, or classic Leslie West. They were nowhere near that.

I also bought a set for my SG in search of the classic 60s SG Special tones, but ended up with something else. Swapped for a set of P-Rails and I'm much happier now, not to mention the 3 bonus sounds from each pickup.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Phat Cat opinion - muddy?

phat cats were originally designed for some hamer model, cant recall which, but that may explain some of the oddness