Phat Cat vs Mean 90
- Thread starter NotCardio
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blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Phat Cat vs Mean 90
Phat Cat - A2's. For me, very dark in the neck slot, darker than any HB I've ever owned. On the other hand, the A2's sounded weak in the bridge slot. Phat Cats are what got me mixing and matching magnets in P-90's. I tried a number of combinations and the most commonly used pair is an A5/A4 in the neck slot to add treble and thin out some of the massive mids. For the bridge, the preferred set is A8/A4 to boost output and add some general oomph. They sound like totally different PU's, so I got more Phat Cats. I pulled out every A2 and gave them away to forum members. Now, my guitars are Gibson designs, which to me is not where Phat Cats are at their best. From comments here, I think they're better-suited to bright woods. I really wish Duncan would expand it's Phat Cat line, and offer models with different winds and magnets.
Mean 90's - Much closer to a Gibson P-90 sound. With the A5's you get more clarity and a sharper high end. I've read a lot of complaints here about Gibson (HB-sized) P-94's and P-100's, so ironically Mean 90's actually sound more like a true P-90 than Gibson could come up with, and the price is right.
Phat Cat - A2's. For me, very dark in the neck slot, darker than any HB I've ever owned. On the other hand, the A2's sounded weak in the bridge slot. Phat Cats are what got me mixing and matching magnets in P-90's. I tried a number of combinations and the most commonly used pair is an A5/A4 in the neck slot to add treble and thin out some of the massive mids. For the bridge, the preferred set is A8/A4 to boost output and add some general oomph. They sound like totally different PU's, so I got more Phat Cats. I pulled out every A2 and gave them away to forum members. Now, my guitars are Gibson designs, which to me is not where Phat Cats are at their best. From comments here, I think they're better-suited to bright woods. I really wish Duncan would expand it's Phat Cat line, and offer models with different winds and magnets.
Mean 90's - Much closer to a Gibson P-90 sound. With the A5's you get more clarity and a sharper high end. I've read a lot of complaints here about Gibson (HB-sized) P-94's and P-100's, so ironically Mean 90's actually sound more like a true P-90 than Gibson could come up with, and the price is right.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Phat Cat vs Mean 90
I love the Phat Cats for tone. I just don't like the way they look. I wish they looked like a P-94 instead. I'd rather get a P-Rails and add a trim ring, personally. I use a pair of neck P-Rails in my Explorer, and after years of ****ing with this guitar trying to get it to sound "right" – and look right doing it – it does.
GFS pickups, IMO, are cheap crap. They do the job for certain purposes, and they have some potentially cool designs. But they don't make anything that truly competes with whatever it is it's trying to copy.
I love the Phat Cats for tone. I just don't like the way they look. I wish they looked like a P-94 instead. I'd rather get a P-Rails and add a trim ring, personally. I use a pair of neck P-Rails in my Explorer, and after years of ****ing with this guitar trying to get it to sound "right" – and look right doing it – it does.
GFS pickups, IMO, are cheap crap. They do the job for certain purposes, and they have some potentially cool designs. But they don't make anything that truly competes with whatever it is it's trying to copy.
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blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Phat Cat vs Mean 90
Mean 90's have gotten a lot of praise from forum members, the GFS line in general hasn't.
GFS have two unofficial grades of PU's; the basic cheaper ones, and the ones that use higher quality materials, like nickel-silver covers and base plates. If you get the cheaper ones, you can't expect much from them. The more expensive ones are an improvement, although not in the same league as Duncans, DiMarzios, etc.
Mean 90's have gotten a lot of praise from forum members, the GFS line in general hasn't.
GFS have two unofficial grades of PU's; the basic cheaper ones, and the ones that use higher quality materials, like nickel-silver covers and base plates. If you get the cheaper ones, you can't expect much from them. The more expensive ones are an improvement, although not in the same league as Duncans, DiMarzios, etc.
LtKojak
New member
Re: Phat Cat vs Mean 90
HTH,
Mean 90s are inexpensive, but not "cheap". Baseplates are 18% nickelsilver. The screws are a bit dull, the keeper bar is neutral. Putting good 1022 screws and mixing mags can give pleasing results.
HTH,
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Phat Cat vs Mean 90
That's an assumption a lot of players make, that Phat Cats sound like P-90's. They were one of the first HB-sized single-coils, and apparently weren't intended to be a P-90 drop in. They've got their own sound going on, which is fine. If you're looking for classic Gibson P-90 tones (A5 mags), it just may be difficult or impossible with Phat Cats. I'd love to see Duncan with a Phat Cat model(s) patterned after some of the great 1970 era P-90 tones, like Townsend (Live at Leeds), Iommi, Santana, & Leslie West.
That's an assumption a lot of players make, that Phat Cats sound like P-90's. They were one of the first HB-sized single-coils, and apparently weren't intended to be a P-90 drop in. They've got their own sound going on, which is fine. If you're looking for classic Gibson P-90 tones (A5 mags), it just may be difficult or impossible with Phat Cats. I'd love to see Duncan with a Phat Cat model(s) patterned after some of the great 1970 era P-90 tones, like Townsend (Live at Leeds), Iommi, Santana, & Leslie West.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Phat Cat vs Mean 90
PHAT CAT BRIDGE -- too shrill for me. 8.5k not enough, needs more turns of wire to soften that up, but no easy task with the VERY limited space on the bobbin ends with the bobbin being significantly shortened so I'm not knocking Seymour for that.
Cure: A switch to 42.5 or 43 gauge.
Downside: Even 42.5 may not be narrow enough to get enough turns in there and Seymour may be legitimately concerned that the higher 43 DCR spec may drive away potential customers looking for something hardcore vintage.
Solution: Let me get back to you on that...
PHAT CAT NECK -- Definitely muddy. The cure has 3 parts:
1) Either lose the cover or have covers made that have little to no effect on tone. It can be done, Throbak has humbucker covers made like this.
Downside: Would be VERY expensive due to having to make such covers because you have to do it without without the copper layer between the cover itself and the plating. This would drive the price up too far for Seymour to make it a regular item and thus would at best be a Custom Shop item if Seymour were to go for it.
Solution: Coverless is doable and can still be made to reasonably look like a P90.
2) Narrower magnets. This mud thing is hardly unique to the Phat Cat neck, it is a problem with P90 necks in general, especially in the context of being paired with the typical P90 bridge. It creates, as they would put it in the NBA, match-up nightmares -- EQ the bridge just right and the neck is muddier than mud. EQ the neck just right and the bridge is a hat pin in your ear.
For those who don't know, P90's have not one but TWO bar magnets in them, one on each side of the screws. Two laid side by side makes for a magnetic field twice as wide which makes it far easier for the pickup to see those longer wave-lengths, and there are plenty of them coming off that part of the string. Narrower magnets go a LONG way toward trimming that fat and in most cases fixes the balance problem immediately if not sooner.
Downside: None whatsoever.
3) Way too much wire for the neck at 8.0k. Cut it to low 7's, possibly mid-to-high 6's.
Downside: Mid-to-high 6's might a little too light for most but would be great for archtop jazzbos.
Solution: Two versions could be made, say, one at 7.2k/A2 and the other 6.5k/A3.
PHAT CAT BRIDGE -- too shrill for me. 8.5k not enough, needs more turns of wire to soften that up, but no easy task with the VERY limited space on the bobbin ends with the bobbin being significantly shortened so I'm not knocking Seymour for that.
Cure: A switch to 42.5 or 43 gauge.
Downside: Even 42.5 may not be narrow enough to get enough turns in there and Seymour may be legitimately concerned that the higher 43 DCR spec may drive away potential customers looking for something hardcore vintage.
Solution: Let me get back to you on that...
PHAT CAT NECK -- Definitely muddy. The cure has 3 parts:
1) Either lose the cover or have covers made that have little to no effect on tone. It can be done, Throbak has humbucker covers made like this.
Downside: Would be VERY expensive due to having to make such covers because you have to do it without without the copper layer between the cover itself and the plating. This would drive the price up too far for Seymour to make it a regular item and thus would at best be a Custom Shop item if Seymour were to go for it.
Solution: Coverless is doable and can still be made to reasonably look like a P90.
2) Narrower magnets. This mud thing is hardly unique to the Phat Cat neck, it is a problem with P90 necks in general, especially in the context of being paired with the typical P90 bridge. It creates, as they would put it in the NBA, match-up nightmares -- EQ the bridge just right and the neck is muddier than mud. EQ the neck just right and the bridge is a hat pin in your ear.
For those who don't know, P90's have not one but TWO bar magnets in them, one on each side of the screws. Two laid side by side makes for a magnetic field twice as wide which makes it far easier for the pickup to see those longer wave-lengths, and there are plenty of them coming off that part of the string. Narrower magnets go a LONG way toward trimming that fat and in most cases fixes the balance problem immediately if not sooner.
Downside: None whatsoever.
3) Way too much wire for the neck at 8.0k. Cut it to low 7's, possibly mid-to-high 6's.
Downside: Mid-to-high 6's might a little too light for most but would be great for archtop jazzbos.
Solution: Two versions could be made, say, one at 7.2k/A2 and the other 6.5k/A3.
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