Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

[Ben1962]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

Snatch up the 59s on the cheap. Great Pups and you can swap magnets if needed later. Cheap upgrade and my bet, you wont have to

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

This just came to mind: What if I try the "opposite" of the 490T/498T? I mean, AlNiCo V on neck @ 7.8k and AlNiCo II on the bridge @ 8.3k, this way I wouldn't have a hughe difference in output. Alos, I've read that V on the neck an II on the bridge is a good combination.
http://tonerider.com/alnico-ii
http://tonerider.com/generator

What do you think?

Good idea. I have a 498T/490R set and couldn't deal with the huge EQ difference between PU's, so I put an A5 in the 490R, and an UOA5 in the 498T (an A2 would be similar). Much better match. Then it's a much more useable pair. I don't know why Gibson couldn't do that themselves. A lot of 498T/490R's get pulled and replaced because of that night & day EQ difference.

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

Let us know how it works out!

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

Good idea. I have a 498T/490R set and couldn't deal with the huge EQ difference between PU's, so I put an A5 in the 490R, and an UOA5 in the 498T (an A2 would be similar). Much better match. Then it's a much more useable pair. I don't know why Gibson couldn't do that themselves. A lot of 498T/490R's get pulled and replaced because of that night & day EQ difference.

I guess I should have looked for availability first...

At the moment I could get:
ACII classics @ 7.5k/8.3k with AlNiCo II
Rocksongs @ 7.9/11.8 with AlNiCo II
Generator @7.8/15.7 with AlNiCo V

But now I'm worried about the difference in EQ because of the DCR being so far apart between neck and bridge in some cases. I really want to give these new-and-affordable toneriders a chance, but the SDs seem like the safest bet. I was amazed by the sound and versatility for the demos on the SD site.

On a separate but not too distant topic, yesterday I was at the studio rehearsing with my band and I could not hear myself when everybody else was playing, I doubt it was a matter of just turning-up-the-volume, I guess this is what some people refer to as "being able to cut through the mix", right? I was using the Epi Trad Pro with Epi's Alnico Classics, they sound ok at home, but definitely not for studio. Next time I'll bring the Gibson and see if there is a difference. This is something that the new SDs should be able to fix compared to the Epiphone pickups, right?

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

Epi's Alnico Classics are somewhat notorious for lack of definition and poor ability to cut through in a mix. IMO any of those sets is likely to be a noticeable improvement over the stock Epi humbuckers.

I was going to add my voice to the others and say you can't go wrong with the Duncans. But if only the Toneriders are readily available, my advice would be to choose on of the A2 sets. I believe the ACII Classic neck pickup has more scatter than the Rocksong neck but I'm not 100% positive of that. ACII bridge should have a more vintage character that the Rocksong bridge, which would likely have more drive and mids but a bit less chime and sparkle than the vintage wind.

Full disclosure, I've never owned any of the Tonerider humbuckers myself.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

Epi's Alnico Classics are somewhat notorious for lack of definition and poor ability to cut through in a mix. IMO any of those sets is likely to be a noticeable improvement over the stock Epi humbuckers.

I was going to add my voice to the others and say you can't go wrong with the Duncans. But if only the Toneriders are readily available, my advice would be to choose on of the A2 sets. I believe the ACII Classic neck pickup has more scatter than the Rocksong neck but I'm not 100% positive of that. ACII bridge should have a more vintage character that the Rocksong bridge, which would likely have more drive and mids but a bit less chime and sparkle than the vintage wind.

Full disclosure, I've never owned any of the Tonerider humbuckers myself.

Thanks for the comments. The 59 set is also available, but at almost twice the price of the others.

The ACII does have more scatter, the Rocksong neck should be very close but the neck is described as a supercharged PAF, for whatever than means. The generators, are described as high output which may not be what I was after. However, since my experience yesterday, the difference between pikcups of a 490R/498T set may work for a band situation instead of home playing. As I can use the neck for chords or quite stuff and switch to the bridge for more outpu at solos or powerchords. What do you think? Do you have any experience with that set?

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

I dont think the 498 is that bad on its own, the problem lies that the EQ is so different than the 490. Hard to dial in both at once. The cheap set of 59s now gone?

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

I don't think the 498 is that bad on its own, the problem lies that the EQ is so different than the 490. Hard to dial in both at once. The cheap set of 59s now gone?

OH, I see. I don't know if that contrast is a good thing or not on some occasions.

The "cheap" 59 set is still there. 15 units available at 118EUR (130CHF/USD).

EDIT: I just found the SD "mayhem set" aka Duncan distortion neck and bridge, for 115EUR (125CHF/USD). But I guess that is too agressive, right?
RE-EDIT: Forget about it, it's sound distortion focused and IMO it sounds horrible. At least all the demos found have been shredding metal.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

Duncan, IMO, should stop using Polished A5 magnets in the 59.

They should instead use Roughcast A5.

More mids. More texture.

Too many players find the 59’s to sound scooped and to lack mids.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

Duncan, IMO, should stop using Polished A5 magnets in the 59.

They should instead use Roughcast A5.

More mids. More texture.

Too many players find the 59’s to sound scooped and to lack mids.

They did use them for the longest time, but back then the wind was completely different too. The original 59s were nothing like the modern one.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

what evidence do you have the wind was completely different?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

what evidence do you have the wind was completely different?

I was thinking the same thing.

I don’t believe the wind is much different.

But I do own some old 59’s and those magnets are rougher than the magnets that came in the new set I have.

Not as rough as the Roughcast A5’s I bought from AddictionFX, and which I put in that new set, but definitely a bit rougher.

I really think Duncan should listen to us, and stop using Polished A5 in the 59.

A few players might be satisfied with Polished A5 in the 59, but it seems that many more want to hear Roughcast or UOA5 in the 59.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

what evidence do you have the wind was completely different?

I guess I was exaggerating a bit, but of all the Duncans that were around in the early years, the 59s are the farthest off from modern pickups. I put a fully charged A4 in an 80s 59n and it sounded fairly different from the modern A4 59n we all know and love.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

i dont think theyve mucked with the 59 wind pattern much since they got the leesona

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

i dont think theyve mucked with the 59 wind pattern much since they got the leesona

Maybe it's just a case of a "bad" pickup. Kinda like how DarthPhineas got a JB with 17% coil mismatch. It's definitely a nice pickup, regardless.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

yeah? hard to say. as long as the tension is set properly, the turn count is right and the wire is in spec... a 59 should be a 59 since the leesona does the rest

 

[Toejam]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

'59s FTW! I've got the stock set of 4-conductor '59s in my Jackson Dominion I bought 12 years ago. I thought about changing the bridge pup out awhile ago, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it; it sounds so good!

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

yeah? hard to say. as long as the tension is set properly, the turn count is right and the wire is in spec... a 59 should be a 59 since the leesona does the rest

The setup of the machine is everything. If you set it up to make a different wind pattern then it will make a different tone. In the PAF days the various positions would wind fractionally different shapes too (info taken from the Throbak site - he has the other Gibson leesona).

A lot of the 'rumour' about the 59 is that there was IIRC a thread a long while back about someone comparing an early butyrate 59 with a more modern potted one. I think the gist was that the tonal difference was hard to explain away just with what the potted coils would do. So there was an inference that somehow the wind/wire/tesion must have changed to make them a bit flatter and more generic. Making them suit perhaps more into a mainstream pickup where being finicky (like PAF clones are) is not desired.

 

[Discharged]

Re: Pickup advise - '59 set in mind

There's a lot of confirmation BIAS when you compare old p'ups with new.

I've experienced it the hard way when I put the "wrong" p'ups in my #1 and I went to the studio to cut an album. I thought they were my MJ-made RCA4-modded '59s.

The instrument sounded beyond great, so I thought "nothing like the good, ole MJ-made '59s". And it wasn't until I took'em out to put in my ECPs Freedom set that I discovered that they actually were RCA4-modded '59s from 2011.

I'm not immune to confirmation BIAS, and that's one case that proved it.

/Peter