I have a Dean Dime Flame. I currently have the Dimebucker in the bridge, and a crappy Dean Pu in the neck. Dimebucker sucks for chugging. Really only good for leads, and harmonics. My question is....can i put the Dimebucker in the Neck.....and install a X2N in the Bridge? Can this be done? and if so....what would it sound like? Im looking to get a sick death metal sound, but with clarity, without spending alot of money. Since i already have the Dimebucker....i figured i could save money, and work with it. My goal is to blow the walls down. Will this setup achieve that goal?
Pickup Combo for metal.......
- Thread starter lynch201
- Start date
Binnerscot
Well-known member
Re: Pickup Combo for metal.......
What is your amp and what kind of tone are you looking for in the neck position?
P.S. - you can blow the walls down with a set of '59s...it isn't pickup dependant.
What is your amp and what kind of tone are you looking for in the neck position?
P.S. - you can blow the walls down with a set of '59s...it isn't pickup dependant.
Re: Pickup Combo for metal.......
I have a Line6 Spider.....and im looking for a Loud, agressive, dark, Metal tone for rythem, and for leads, something a bit brighter. Can i combo a Dimbucker with a X2N? The Dimebucker is perfect for dive bombs, and harmonics.....but not good enough for Death metal-type chugging. Thats why i think an X2N in the bridge would set this thing on fire combined with the Dimebucker in the neck. Any thoughts on that setup?
I have a Line6 Spider.....and im looking for a Loud, agressive, dark, Metal tone for rythem, and for leads, something a bit brighter. Can i combo a Dimbucker with a X2N? The Dimebucker is perfect for dive bombs, and harmonics.....but not good enough for Death metal-type chugging. Thats why i think an X2N in the bridge would set this thing on fire combined with the Dimebucker in the neck. Any thoughts on that setup?
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Binnerscot
Well-known member
Re: Pickup Combo for metal.......
The Dime in the neck will be pretty hot when matching any bridge pup. If you are not concerned with the appearance or the balance between the pups, go for it.
I had a Dime, though it was bright and a little harsh, it is an excellent "chug" pup. Most bright pups with moderate to high output and a moderate low end (Dime, Full Shred, EMG 81, etc.) , make excellent chugging pups with plenty of definition. What about the Dime isn't working for you?
The Dime in the neck will be pretty hot when matching any bridge pup. If you are not concerned with the appearance or the balance between the pups, go for it.
I had a Dime, though it was bright and a little harsh, it is an excellent "chug" pup. Most bright pups with moderate to high output and a moderate low end (Dime, Full Shred, EMG 81, etc.) , make excellent chugging pups with plenty of definition. What about the Dime isn't working for you?
Re: Pickup Combo for metal.......
I love the Dime for solos....but for Chugging.....it sounds muddy to me. The output for the Dime is not that high either. Like i said.....i love it for Dive bombs, leads, harmonics, and even clean ...but for Death-Metal style rythems...i dont feel it has enough balls. As far as looks.....i think the X2N, and Dimebucker would look cool togther. The Dimebucker, and the X2N are the same size....so i dont think id have a problem fitting them. How hot do you think this setup would be? Killer? Hotter than Actives?
I love the Dime for solos....but for Chugging.....it sounds muddy to me. The output for the Dime is not that high either. Like i said.....i love it for Dive bombs, leads, harmonics, and even clean ...but for Death-Metal style rythems...i dont feel it has enough balls. As far as looks.....i think the X2N, and Dimebucker would look cool togther. The Dimebucker, and the X2N are the same size....so i dont think id have a problem fitting them. How hot do you think this setup would be? Killer? Hotter than Actives?
brit84
Active member
Empty Pockets
BadHairDayologist
Re: Pickup Combo for metal.......
I'm sorry but if you can't get heavy death metal tones out of a Line 6 Spider then I think you're a troll.:smokin:
Pickups don't matter as much as your amp does...change that first.
And the fact that the Dimebucker is a hot, high-output pickup is...well...a FACT. It's not low-output and that's not an opinion...it's one of the hottest pickups Duncan makes which makes it high-output compared to other pickups.
I think the reason your tone sounds weak could be because you're oversaturating everything with way too much gain. High-gain pickups weren't designed to work with hi-gain amps and pedals. They were designed to compensate and add gain to amps that don't have a lot of gain built in. Now that amps DO have a lot of gain built in, many people find they're getting heavier tones by using low-output humbuckers and single coils and letting the amp do the work...that way the tubes can get cranked up the way they're supposed to and your pickups leave enough room in the signal for dynamics and stuff.
There's a reason nobody uses Dimebuckers or X2Ns in their guitars.
One of the heaviest tones in modern metal today comes from Matt Pike of High On Fire...he uses PAF-style humbuckers into three cranked 100-watt half stacks with no pedals. HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY because the amps are working their asses off and you can hear every subtle nuance of his playing cuz the pickups aren't drowning everything out.
I'm sorry but if you can't get heavy death metal tones out of a Line 6 Spider then I think you're a troll.:smokin:
Pickups don't matter as much as your amp does...change that first.
And the fact that the Dimebucker is a hot, high-output pickup is...well...a FACT. It's not low-output and that's not an opinion...it's one of the hottest pickups Duncan makes which makes it high-output compared to other pickups.
I think the reason your tone sounds weak could be because you're oversaturating everything with way too much gain. High-gain pickups weren't designed to work with hi-gain amps and pedals. They were designed to compensate and add gain to amps that don't have a lot of gain built in. Now that amps DO have a lot of gain built in, many people find they're getting heavier tones by using low-output humbuckers and single coils and letting the amp do the work...that way the tubes can get cranked up the way they're supposed to and your pickups leave enough room in the signal for dynamics and stuff.
There's a reason nobody uses Dimebuckers or X2Ns in their guitars.
One of the heaviest tones in modern metal today comes from Matt Pike of High On Fire...he uses PAF-style humbuckers into three cranked 100-watt half stacks with no pedals. HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY because the amps are working their asses off and you can hear every subtle nuance of his playing cuz the pickups aren't drowning everything out.
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JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: Pickup Combo for metal.......
Make sure you like the natural tone of the guitar before you go with an X2N. They pretty much just make the guitar's acoustic tonalities really loud.
Make sure you like the natural tone of the guitar before you go with an X2N. They pretty much just make the guitar's acoustic tonalities really loud.
super rad stuff
Skaforlifeologist
Re: Pickup Combo for metal.......
+1 for another amp, possibly a hybrid like the vox metal modeler amp.
+1 for another amp, possibly a hybrid like the vox metal modeler amp.
Re: Pickup Combo for metal.......
My amp is fine......i owned EMGS before, and they sounded great through this amp. I like EMGS.....but i assume the Dean would have to undergo major surgery in order to get them in. Id rather bypass the hassle, and just swap out the 1 crappy pickup with a red hot PU. I had EMGS in my other guitar....with the same amp.....and it sounded pretty good. How hard would it be to fit this guitar with actives?
My amp is fine......i owned EMGS before, and they sounded great through this amp. I like EMGS.....but i assume the Dean would have to undergo major surgery in order to get them in. Id rather bypass the hassle, and just swap out the 1 crappy pickup with a red hot PU. I had EMGS in my other guitar....with the same amp.....and it sounded pretty good. How hard would it be to fit this guitar with actives?
Re: Pickup Combo for metal.......
Okay, your amp is fine. However there is truth to what Empty Pockets is saying. High output pickups feeding a high gain amp with the gained knob turned too high will make for poor tone.
Originally, high output pickups was the only way to get a high gain sound. The original goal of amplifier designers was for the signal to be clean throughout, no distortion anywhere. Distortion was a Bad Thing™ from the amp makers perspective. Then one day, a musician in his attempt to get ever louder turned his amp up too much and discovered just how awesome an overdriven tube sounds. However, because amp makers were making their amps to be as clean as possible you had to turn your volume way the hell up to ear damaging levels to get that nice distortion. Sometimes that wasn't enough, and so high output pickups entered the picture. The high output pickups pushing the amps hard caused them to distort even more. Now you could get that really high gain sound, or, if you weren't after such a high gain sound, you didn't have to tun the amp up as loud for it to sound good. Eventually, the idea of purposely building amps with to distort heavily without having to turn up to volume levels that destroy your hearing and get you arrested occurred to amp makers. They started designing amps with enough gain that they amp could distort easily, without having to turn up super loud or resort to super high output pickups, boost pedals, attenuators or any other tricks.
Now many amps now days are designed and built such that they can produce the heaviest, most brutal and awesome metal tone all by themselves, without needing help from a high output pickup. However, there is something as too much gain. Feed such an amp with a high output pickup, and turn the gain too high, and you will have loose sonic mush, instead of the brutal chugga chugga you were hoping for. I have experienced this first hand.
So, if the gain levels in modern amps have made high output pickups obsolete, how come pickup makers still make them and many people still use them? Simple, high output pickups have a unique tone different from that of vintage output, and some people perfer that sound. Same thing with amps with lesser amounts of gain. Some people prefer the sound of an amp with vintage levels of gain.
Now, you can use a high output pickup into a high gain amp, but you have to be careful about it. When using high output pickups into a high gain amp, it's best to use the gain knob sparingly. You'll get a much better tone that way. So high output pickups like that Dimebag you have right now are definitely useful, and you should be able to get a good chugging tone with it. Consider that Dimebag himself was able to get a cool, chugging tone with that pickup. If you can't get a chugging tone with that pickup, then the problem lies with either your amp's settings or your playing technique.
Now, if you want a set of high output pickups for awesome metal sounds, try the Duncan Distortion bridge and neck models. They're not as high output as the Dimebag, but they're not a low output pickup by any stretch either. The Distortion bridge can get nice, chugging rhythm sounds, and the distortion neck is also higher than vintage output, and balances well with the bridge pickup in terms of both output and tone.
Okay, your amp is fine. However there is truth to what Empty Pockets is saying. High output pickups feeding a high gain amp with the gained knob turned too high will make for poor tone.
Originally, high output pickups was the only way to get a high gain sound. The original goal of amplifier designers was for the signal to be clean throughout, no distortion anywhere. Distortion was a Bad Thing™ from the amp makers perspective. Then one day, a musician in his attempt to get ever louder turned his amp up too much and discovered just how awesome an overdriven tube sounds. However, because amp makers were making their amps to be as clean as possible you had to turn your volume way the hell up to ear damaging levels to get that nice distortion. Sometimes that wasn't enough, and so high output pickups entered the picture. The high output pickups pushing the amps hard caused them to distort even more. Now you could get that really high gain sound, or, if you weren't after such a high gain sound, you didn't have to tun the amp up as loud for it to sound good. Eventually, the idea of purposely building amps with to distort heavily without having to turn up to volume levels that destroy your hearing and get you arrested occurred to amp makers. They started designing amps with enough gain that they amp could distort easily, without having to turn up super loud or resort to super high output pickups, boost pedals, attenuators or any other tricks.
Now many amps now days are designed and built such that they can produce the heaviest, most brutal and awesome metal tone all by themselves, without needing help from a high output pickup. However, there is something as too much gain. Feed such an amp with a high output pickup, and turn the gain too high, and you will have loose sonic mush, instead of the brutal chugga chugga you were hoping for. I have experienced this first hand.
So, if the gain levels in modern amps have made high output pickups obsolete, how come pickup makers still make them and many people still use them? Simple, high output pickups have a unique tone different from that of vintage output, and some people perfer that sound. Same thing with amps with lesser amounts of gain. Some people prefer the sound of an amp with vintage levels of gain.
Now, you can use a high output pickup into a high gain amp, but you have to be careful about it. When using high output pickups into a high gain amp, it's best to use the gain knob sparingly. You'll get a much better tone that way. So high output pickups like that Dimebag you have right now are definitely useful, and you should be able to get a good chugging tone with it. Consider that Dimebag himself was able to get a cool, chugging tone with that pickup. If you can't get a chugging tone with that pickup, then the problem lies with either your amp's settings or your playing technique.
Now, if you want a set of high output pickups for awesome metal sounds, try the Duncan Distortion bridge and neck models. They're not as high output as the Dimebag, but they're not a low output pickup by any stretch either. The Distortion bridge can get nice, chugging rhythm sounds, and the distortion neck is also higher than vintage output, and balances well with the bridge pickup in terms of both output and tone.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Pickup Combo for metal.......
Not really, unless you're thinking piezos. Magnetics don't act like mics, their primary concern is what's going on with the strings.
As for the sound you're looking for, it sounds to me like you're trying to duplicate an entire Death Metal rhythm section - 2 layered guitars playing the same thing and the bass on top playing the root notes.
That's not how your amp should be set.
Power comes from the guitar and bass working together.
And as was said, if you're using high-gain pickups, turn the amp distortion/gain down, otherwise it'll just be a bee in a bottle.
Not really, unless you're thinking piezos. Magnetics don't act like mics, their primary concern is what's going on with the strings.
As for the sound you're looking for, it sounds to me like you're trying to duplicate an entire Death Metal rhythm section - 2 layered guitars playing the same thing and the bass on top playing the root notes.
That's not how your amp should be set.
Power comes from the guitar and bass working together.
And as was said, if you're using high-gain pickups, turn the amp distortion/gain down, otherwise it'll just be a bee in a bottle.
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Diocletian
BrandNewGlossologist
Re: Pickup Combo for metal.......
He also didn't play death metal....
If it's the same in your country as it is in the UK, the Dimebucker seems to cost a lot more than other Duncan pups. So if I were you I'd sell the Dimebucker and buy a '59 for the neck, with your chosen X2N in the bridge.
Someone on here tried a Dimebucker in the neck fairly recently, I seem to recall they thought it worked alright, you'll have to search for the thread.
Or you could buy a Bill Lawrence USA 500XL (the ones Dime used). I have one in the bridge of a Jackson and it's awesome in every way - it's also about a third of the price of the Dimebucker.
He also didn't play death metal....
If it's the same in your country as it is in the UK, the Dimebucker seems to cost a lot more than other Duncan pups. So if I were you I'd sell the Dimebucker and buy a '59 for the neck, with your chosen X2N in the bridge.
Someone on here tried a Dimebucker in the neck fairly recently, I seem to recall they thought it worked alright, you'll have to search for the thread.
Or you could buy a Bill Lawrence USA 500XL (the ones Dime used). I have one in the bridge of a Jackson and it's awesome in every way - it's also about a third of the price of the Dimebucker.
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