I've been looking into buying a Seymour Duncan Invader (bridge) for my Fender Strat. I was also going to put two EMG S1 single coils on as well. Will the EMGs help make the not so great clean tone better? I was planning on buying from Guitar Center. Approximately how much do they charge for pickup installation? I am playing the Strat through a Peavey 15 Vypyr Combo amp with an Boss MT-2 Metal Zone pedal. I play mostly rock and metal. I know my tone with these will be much better than my low quality stock pickups and as much as I like the Metal Zone, is there something better? Any help/suggestions much appreciated.
Pickup help
- Thread starter nickSD
- Start date
jacksontrader
New member
Re: Pickup help
I've never been impressed with any of the people at my local GC, they hire people for minimum wage and pay them a small commission which has to pay their wages before they see any of it. So not the sharpest people there:stooges:. If you're not handy with wiring and soldering and don't want to attempt it, take it a luthier and have them do it. I used to take all of my stuff to a local luthier and got tired of paying alot of money for a little work and decided to learn how to do it myself. The money I saved payed for soldering supplies and some how-to books, but the biggest thing needed is patience. Take your time, practice and learn. As far as the Invaders and EMGs no clue, sorry I don't like the Invaders and haven't used the EMGs. Good luck.
I've never been impressed with any of the people at my local GC, they hire people for minimum wage and pay them a small commission which has to pay their wages before they see any of it. So not the sharpest people there:stooges:. If you're not handy with wiring and soldering and don't want to attempt it, take it a luthier and have them do it. I used to take all of my stuff to a local luthier and got tired of paying alot of money for a little work and decided to learn how to do it myself. The money I saved payed for soldering supplies and some how-to books, but the biggest thing needed is patience. Take your time, practice and learn. As far as the Invaders and EMGs no clue, sorry I don't like the Invaders and haven't used the EMGs. Good luck.
TeleLubber
New member
Re: Pickup help
what kind of strat? American made? Squier?
define "not so great clean tone" .. maybe it's your amp..
active pickups and a Metal Zone do not create a good tone in my opinion..
what sort of tone are you looking for?
what kind of strat? American made? Squier?
define "not so great clean tone" .. maybe it's your amp..
active pickups and a Metal Zone do not create a good tone in my opinion..
what sort of tone are you looking for?
Re: Pickup help
Thanks for the info jacksontrader. TeleLubber, it's a cheap guitar that came in a beginner package comparable to a Squier. I thought it would save me some money if I upgraded my pickups. The clean tone is alright for some cheap stock pickups. I think it could be better with quality pickups. Also the EMGs and Invader are both passive so I would think that the tone would be good. The cleans are good in my opinion. This amp has different amp models built in such as the XXX, 6505, and TWN ( Twn is fantastic when clean or has an added distortion effect such as a pedal) which can all be clean or distorted. I have the Metal Zone because I wanted a heavier sound. I am wanting a Metallica tone; a good heavy sound as well as some good cleans.
Thanks for the info jacksontrader. TeleLubber, it's a cheap guitar that came in a beginner package comparable to a Squier. I thought it would save me some money if I upgraded my pickups. The clean tone is alright for some cheap stock pickups. I think it could be better with quality pickups. Also the EMGs and Invader are both passive so I would think that the tone would be good. The cleans are good in my opinion. This amp has different amp models built in such as the XXX, 6505, and TWN ( Twn is fantastic when clean or has an added distortion effect such as a pedal) which can all be clean or distorted. I have the Metal Zone because I wanted a heavier sound. I am wanting a Metallica tone; a good heavy sound as well as some good cleans.
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: Pickup help
Instead of the Metal Zone, get a Tube Screamer (or any of the Tube Screamer copies, like the Digitech Bad Monkey.) Use the Vypyr to get most of your distortion, then put the pedal in front of it to tighten it up.
You probably don't want the Invader. I'd go TB-5 Duncan Custom in the bridge, and SH1n Duncan '59 in the neck. That combo will do everything from clean to death metal.
Instead of the Metal Zone, get a Tube Screamer (or any of the Tube Screamer copies, like the Digitech Bad Monkey.) Use the Vypyr to get most of your distortion, then put the pedal in front of it to tighten it up.
You probably don't want the Invader. I'd go TB-5 Duncan Custom in the bridge, and SH1n Duncan '59 in the neck. That combo will do everything from clean to death metal.
Re: Pickup help
Hmm. I have seen that some people combine a tube screamer with another distortion pedal and it sounds pretty good. The only thing I've noticed is when I used the built in Tube Scream effect on the Vypyr with the Metal Zone, there is a lot of feedback noise and it sounds muddy. I'm new to a lot of this so it's hard to know what to get when there is so much to choose from. I talked to e-mailed people at guitar center, and they recommended the Invader and EMG s1 single coils. But who knows this setup could be good. I'm overwhelmed with how many options there are for pickups and effects/pedals. :/
Hmm. I have seen that some people combine a tube screamer with another distortion pedal and it sounds pretty good. The only thing I've noticed is when I used the built in Tube Scream effect on the Vypyr with the Metal Zone, there is a lot of feedback noise and it sounds muddy. I'm new to a lot of this so it's hard to know what to get when there is so much to choose from. I talked to e-mailed people at guitar center, and they recommended the Invader and EMG s1 single coils. But who knows this setup could be good. I'm overwhelmed with how many options there are for pickups and effects/pedals. :/
jacksontrader
New member
Re: Pickup help
cI'm overwhelmed with how many options there are for pickups and effects/pedals. :/ hanges.
I've been playing 22 years, and that never changes.
cI'm overwhelmed with how many options there are for pickups and effects/pedals. :/ hanges.
I've been playing 22 years, and that never changes.
Khriss Bliss
New member
Re: Pickup help
its easy to be overwhelmed so when you do hear a tone you like, let it make you happy.
i think your correct in that better pick ups will make you happy with the tone. but im skeptical about the emg singles- my emg passive hbkr stinks:hold off on that decision if you dont need great cleans yet.
Exodus Gary Holt uses Custom sh5 so thats a good recommendation, also the Sh6(duncan Distortion) is very metal- like Dave Mustaines JB but with a meatier ceramic magnet. George Lynch used sh6. i think the Invader was to compensate for the strat not having
much bass tone. if you dont hear much bass unplugged, it will be difficult dialing it in w knobs.
you should take your time with deciding your pickup installation cuz you want the guitar to sound good in case you upgrade yr amp.
Also, if you ever want to trade in the guitar you wont get anything for better pkups, in fact you might have to put stock ones back in. So if youve ever melted solder, then
maybe you can do this yourself... just screws and solder w some brainwork looking at the thing, thats all it is... on a strat, its mounted to the pickguard, which is pain, but learn to use the tremelo bar to loosen strings then you can get the pkguard out. im not sure how much stores charge to install but a soldering iron is $8.
also, the bad monkey or tsturbo. or blues driver... good suggestion, try those in a store on a vypyr, see if it helps. Good Luck! Also, try noise gates in gtr cntr- they give you those instant dead air silences between chords, like on MasterPuppts or Pantera, etc.
its easy to be overwhelmed so when you do hear a tone you like, let it make you happy.
i think your correct in that better pick ups will make you happy with the tone. but im skeptical about the emg singles- my emg passive hbkr stinks:hold off on that decision if you dont need great cleans yet.
Exodus Gary Holt uses Custom sh5 so thats a good recommendation, also the Sh6(duncan Distortion) is very metal- like Dave Mustaines JB but with a meatier ceramic magnet. George Lynch used sh6. i think the Invader was to compensate for the strat not having
much bass tone. if you dont hear much bass unplugged, it will be difficult dialing it in w knobs.
you should take your time with deciding your pickup installation cuz you want the guitar to sound good in case you upgrade yr amp.
Also, if you ever want to trade in the guitar you wont get anything for better pkups, in fact you might have to put stock ones back in. So if youve ever melted solder, then
maybe you can do this yourself... just screws and solder w some brainwork looking at the thing, thats all it is... on a strat, its mounted to the pickguard, which is pain, but learn to use the tremelo bar to loosen strings then you can get the pkguard out. im not sure how much stores charge to install but a soldering iron is $8.
also, the bad monkey or tsturbo. or blues driver... good suggestion, try those in a store on a vypyr, see if it helps. Good Luck! Also, try noise gates in gtr cntr- they give you those instant dead air silences between chords, like on MasterPuppts or Pantera, etc.
TeleLubber
New member
Re: Pickup help
My bad.. I associate EMGs with active pickups.. never used an Invader..
If you want to beef up your strat for a Metallica type distortion.. try using a Hot Rail in the bridge.. I did that with my first strat.. and I was hooked.. humbucker sound in a single coil package
My bad.. I associate EMGs with active pickups.. never used an Invader..
If you want to beef up your strat for a Metallica type distortion.. try using a Hot Rail in the bridge.. I did that with my first strat.. and I was hooked.. humbucker sound in a single coil package
sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: Pickup help
Your problems extend way beyond your pickups.
Save your money for a better amp.
I don't mean to sound callous or jerky... but seriously, a better amp will solve all of your current tone issues.
Your problems extend way beyond your pickups.
Save your money for a better amp.
I don't mean to sound callous or jerky... but seriously, a better amp will solve all of your current tone issues.
Re: Pickup help
I have no idea what amp would be good for me. If I do get a new one, I'll probably trade in my Peavey and Metal Zone if I find some good and heavy built in distortion. (At most 30 watts since I just play at my house) The nearest Guitar Center is a couple hours away. I think I'll stick with 3 single coils. Can I do 3 single coils if I have a humbucker spot on the bridge position? Is that better than a humbucker and 2 single coils? The hot rails sounds great from listening to it on here!
Any suggestions on the other 2 pickups?
I have no idea what amp would be good for me. If I do get a new one, I'll probably trade in my Peavey and Metal Zone if I find some good and heavy built in distortion. (At most 30 watts since I just play at my house) The nearest Guitar Center is a couple hours away. I think I'll stick with 3 single coils. Can I do 3 single coils if I have a humbucker spot on the bridge position? Is that better than a humbucker and 2 single coils? The hot rails sounds great from listening to it on here!
Any suggestions on the other 2 pickups?
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TeleLubber
New member
Re: Pickup help
if you have a humbucker spot at the bridge.. you have alot of choices for a high output pickup for metal..
JB is a classic 80s type, Duncan Distortion is hotter yet.. PATB-2 sounds like a monster
if you have a humbucker spot at the bridge.. you have alot of choices for a high output pickup for metal..
JB is a classic 80s type, Duncan Distortion is hotter yet.. PATB-2 sounds like a monster
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: Pickup help
The Vypyr is a fine amp for home use.
First thing you need to do is pull off the pickguard and look and see what routing you have. Just loosen the strings as much as you can and unscrew the pickguard and take a look. Could be SSH, could be HSH. That will let you know what combination of pickups you could use.
You never mentioned which Fender Strat you had either. If it's actually a Squier Strat, I've tried just about every bridge pickup, and can point you in the right direction. (I've also used a Vypyr amp, so I know what they're capable of.)
The Vypyr is a fine amp for home use.
First thing you need to do is pull off the pickguard and look and see what routing you have. Just loosen the strings as much as you can and unscrew the pickguard and take a look. Could be SSH, could be HSH. That will let you know what combination of pickups you could use.
You never mentioned which Fender Strat you had either. If it's actually a Squier Strat, I've tried just about every bridge pickup, and can point you in the right direction. (I've also used a Vypyr amp, so I know what they're capable of.)
Re: Pickup help
Well it's a Fender "Starcaster". Got it from Sams. It's probably worst than a Squire but oh well. And it's SSH if I'm correct. I'm only 16 so I don't have a lot of cash. For two single coils and a humbucker I didn't want to spend more than $200 total, unless I needed to. I'm torn between the JB, Distortion, and PATB-2. I figured instead of spending a couple hundred dollars more on another guitar I could just upgrade what I have.
Well it's a Fender "Starcaster". Got it from Sams. It's probably worst than a Squire but oh well. And it's SSH if I'm correct. I'm only 16 so I don't have a lot of cash. For two single coils and a humbucker I didn't want to spend more than $200 total, unless I needed to. I'm torn between the JB, Distortion, and PATB-2. I figured instead of spending a couple hundred dollars more on another guitar I could just upgrade what I have.
TeleLubber
New member
Re: Pickup help
My nephew has a PATB-2 in an alder bodied strat I built for him, and we used Stacked STKs for the neck and middle pups.. his amp is a dual rectifier.. and he plays what I would call "modern metal".. its sounds great.. I bought a complete set of these Stacked single coils for my latest strat build.. they come in alot of different outputs.. we used the higher output ones for him to balance the output of his PATB..
I'm a huge fan of the JB, I have that pup in so many of my guitars.. lol
But you won't go wrong with a Distortion or PATB..
If I may take this in a different direction, and offer some advise without trying to sound like a snob or anything.. If you have a Starcaster.. you may want to save your money and consider buying a little higher quality guitar.. and make sure they use a decnt tone wood like alder/ash/mahogany etc.. I'm not sure what kind of wood they use to build those Starcasters.. but throwing an expensive pickup into a tone-dead guitar will most likely be a disappointing experience..
My nephew has a PATB-2 in an alder bodied strat I built for him, and we used Stacked STKs for the neck and middle pups.. his amp is a dual rectifier.. and he plays what I would call "modern metal".. its sounds great.. I bought a complete set of these Stacked single coils for my latest strat build.. they come in alot of different outputs.. we used the higher output ones for him to balance the output of his PATB..
I'm a huge fan of the JB, I have that pup in so many of my guitars.. lol
But you won't go wrong with a Distortion or PATB..
If I may take this in a different direction, and offer some advise without trying to sound like a snob or anything.. If you have a Starcaster.. you may want to save your money and consider buying a little higher quality guitar.. and make sure they use a decnt tone wood like alder/ash/mahogany etc.. I'm not sure what kind of wood they use to build those Starcasters.. but throwing an expensive pickup into a tone-dead guitar will most likely be a disappointing experience..
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Pickup help
First thing to understand when trying to make one guitar and any amp+pedal sound like anything on a CD you've heard (i.e. Metallica's guitar tone) is that the CD tracks have been doubled, and layered, and they're mixed with other layered and doubled guitar tracks, as well as the bass and drums.
All that contributes to the sound you're hearing. It's not just one guitar+one amp. It's not even James and Kirk with a guitar and amp each. What you hear on the CD is not what you'll hear standing in front of their amps, either. What you're hearing is a processed sound tailored for most CD players and radios.
On top of that, it's been widely reported that Hetfield used a Gibson Explorer with an Invader for Master of Puppets. It's also been widely reported he used a Gibson V with an Invader. And an Explorer with an original Gibson Dirty Fingers. And a Gibson V with a Dirty Fingers. And a white Jackson King V with a Distortion, Invader, or Dirty Fingers.
I've not seen anything where Hetfield himself said what guitar+pickup he used, and on what tracks. However, I do know that an Invader in a Jackson Warrior through my rack into my PC+studio monitors sounds close enough to Master of Puppets on my CD player.
But then I've got a ton of EQ in my rack so I can sound like anything I want.
The point to all that is that it really doesn't matter which pickup you get - Invader, Distortion, Custom, JB, Screamin Demon, Full Shred, Fred, Evolution, ToneZone, SuperDistortion, Hot Rails, etc etc etc: it's going to take more EQ than anything, because what you're trying to match is a studio-processed sound, so save your money for a decent EQ pedal. The MXR 10-band graphic should work just fine. A cheesy little 5 or 7-band might not have the frequency control you need.
And a noise suppressor/noise gate to control the feedback.
First thing to understand when trying to make one guitar and any amp+pedal sound like anything on a CD you've heard (i.e. Metallica's guitar tone) is that the CD tracks have been doubled, and layered, and they're mixed with other layered and doubled guitar tracks, as well as the bass and drums.
All that contributes to the sound you're hearing. It's not just one guitar+one amp. It's not even James and Kirk with a guitar and amp each. What you hear on the CD is not what you'll hear standing in front of their amps, either. What you're hearing is a processed sound tailored for most CD players and radios.
On top of that, it's been widely reported that Hetfield used a Gibson Explorer with an Invader for Master of Puppets. It's also been widely reported he used a Gibson V with an Invader. And an Explorer with an original Gibson Dirty Fingers. And a Gibson V with a Dirty Fingers. And a white Jackson King V with a Distortion, Invader, or Dirty Fingers.
I've not seen anything where Hetfield himself said what guitar+pickup he used, and on what tracks. However, I do know that an Invader in a Jackson Warrior through my rack into my PC+studio monitors sounds close enough to Master of Puppets on my CD player.
But then I've got a ton of EQ in my rack so I can sound like anything I want.
The point to all that is that it really doesn't matter which pickup you get - Invader, Distortion, Custom, JB, Screamin Demon, Full Shred, Fred, Evolution, ToneZone, SuperDistortion, Hot Rails, etc etc etc: it's going to take more EQ than anything, because what you're trying to match is a studio-processed sound, so save your money for a decent EQ pedal. The MXR 10-band graphic should work just fine. A cheesy little 5 or 7-band might not have the frequency control you need.
And a noise suppressor/noise gate to control the feedback.
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: Pickup help
The Starcasters are Agathis, which is similar to mahogany. You REALLY don't want a JB in it. Is it the thinner one (Rock Band logo on the neckplate) or regular thickness? A lot of the Starcasters I've had have been HSH, but some were SSH. You'll have to look.
If the single coils sound ok to you, keep them in there, and toss a TB-5 Duncan Custom in the bridge. If you want to spend a little less, the GFS Crunchy PAT will also sound great.
The Starcasters are Agathis, which is similar to mahogany. You REALLY don't want a JB in it. Is it the thinner one (Rock Band logo on the neckplate) or regular thickness? A lot of the Starcasters I've had have been HSH, but some were SSH. You'll have to look.
If the single coils sound ok to you, keep them in there, and toss a TB-5 Duncan Custom in the bridge. If you want to spend a little less, the GFS Crunchy PAT will also sound great.
Re: Pickup help
Dominus, would it be wise to keep the Starcaster and go ahead and replace all three and wait on a new guitar? I guess mine is the thinner one since it does have the Rock Band Fender logo.
Is it worth it to maybe spend a couple hundred on a new guitar? I've heard a lot of stocks aren't that great even on some better guitars. But if I could replace the pickups on a Starcaster and still have a great sound, I don't see the reason in buying a new guitar just yet.
Okay so JB is off my list. Is the Custom pretty versatile tonewise? Would you recommend it over the other humbuckers? What single coils would you use with it (such as Duncan, EMG, DiMarzio)? I apoligize for all the questions, I am just wanting to be sure I make the right decision.
Dominus, would it be wise to keep the Starcaster and go ahead and replace all three and wait on a new guitar? I guess mine is the thinner one since it does have the Rock Band Fender logo.
Is it worth it to maybe spend a couple hundred on a new guitar? I've heard a lot of stocks aren't that great even on some better guitars. But if I could replace the pickups on a Starcaster and still have a great sound, I don't see the reason in buying a new guitar just yet.
Okay so JB is off my list. Is the Custom pretty versatile tonewise? Would you recommend it over the other humbuckers? What single coils would you use with it (such as Duncan, EMG, DiMarzio)? I apoligize for all the questions, I am just wanting to be sure I make the right decision.
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