Pickup placement

[Plessure]

As the signal is strongest in the middle of a string's vibration path, a pickup should be placed under the octave fret. The bridge pickup is already a standard, but the neck pickup doesn't represent the other extreme end. There should be pickups all the way between the octave fret and the bridge. There should be pickups inside the neck.

Considering the practical limitations of guitar construction, it's not strange that pickup placement has traditionally been done the way it has. Nevertheless, it's important to realize that this is a compromise and to be aware of the theoretical possibilities.

So, we need a coil that fits into the neck. It needs to accomodate for a truss rod. Any other problems?

Another way to achieve the same full-spectrum pickup characteristics would be to have a shorter neck and fretboard which ends around the octave, so as to have more of the scale length free for pickup placement. That would make it a different instrument entirely, though. Many electric guitar players do a lot of playing above the octave.

 

[ChAoZ]

Re: Pickup placement

 

[dave74]

Re: Pickup placement

Or we could just make a big pile of all the world's neck pickups, then blow it up!

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Pickup placement

So, we need a coil that fits into the neck. It needs to accomodate for a truss rod. Any other problems?

DUDE. SERIOUSLY.
If you've stopped taking your meds, get back on them.
If you are taking your meds, stop.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Pickup placement

DUDE. SERIOUSLY.
If you've stopped taking your meds, get back on them.
If you are taking your meds, stop.

This is familiar. I think i might've gotten the same response from you before. It seems you might need medicine or therapy for your fits of aggression toward innocent strangers.

What exactly might i need medicine for? If the idea is that stupid, i must be overlooking something and it should be easy to explain for someone who sees the problem. Otherwise i'm inclined to assume you're just bashing a novel idea by pure bitter instinct.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Pickup placement

Maybe you could try to design a pickup that also functions as a fret. That might solve the problem.

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[Plessure]

Re: Pickup placement

We all agree that pickup placement matters. The bridge pickup approximates the ideal, and the neck pickup often sits below the double octave (where a 24th fret would be on 21/22 fret guitars). In order to cover the full spectrum, the row of pickups should extend to the octave, the 12th fret. Some spots would be better than others, of course. I think a good three or four coils could be put there.

It's difficult, but i don't see a reason why it would be impossible.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup placement

Are you hoping we'd all forgotten just how silly and impractical this idea was, and are angling for another go???

 

[Plessure]

Re: Pickup placement

Maybe you could try to design a pickup that also functions as a fret. That might solve the problem.

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Yes, i made a thread about this previously. The responses were similar. There is huge entrepreneurial leverage to be had in these murky backwaters of stubborn conservatism.

Then i realized that frets as polepieces would perhaps lead to more CLANKs and PLOPs than notes. However, there may be other ways to integrate fret and pickup that escape me.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Pickup placement

Are you hoping we'd all forgotten just how silly and impractical this idea was, and are angling for another go???

No. I'm simply refining and clarifying the concept. Fret pups was more of a funny thought. Full-range pups are essential. The impracticality needs overcoming. That's progress, you know.

As i've pointed out, a full range of pickups can be easily obtained by using an 11 fret neck and putting a pickup right along its heel, where the 12th fret would be. Just to try the tonal spectrum. Applying it to a full 20+ band guitar is the tricky part, since the pickups will need to sit under the fretboard. Full pickup range really is a very basic aspect of electric string instrument design yet hasn't even been tried to my knowledge.

Of course, as soon as the fretboard and pickups overlap, the possibility of fretting past a pickup and getting no signal is introduced. But this is merely a question of knowing your gear. For playing open strings or low down the fretboard, a pickup under the octave fret would sound immense. Especially with some tube saturation. For playing at the top frets, your choices would be restricted to the non-fretboard regular pickups already available.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Pickup placement

Well, if you only want to have 11 frets, maybe you can make up for the loss of half the fretboard by resurrecting the medival instrument called the lute. To get around fret noise, have the frets made of a binary material, with the portion in contact with the strings being non-conductive. Then, instead of trying to wrap the pickups around the truss rod, just make the truss rod part of the pickup, maybe by making it out of a neodymium magnet.
I'll leave the rest of the r&d up to you.

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[Darg1911]

Re: Pickup placement

Go ahead and build it, get rich and come back and rub it in our collective faces. As a side benefit, the wealth will allow you get all the chicks that you couldn't get beforehand.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Pickup placement

Well, if you only want to have 11 frets, maybe you can make up for the loss of half the fretboard by resurrecting the medival instrument called the lute. To get around fret noise, have the frets made of a binary material, with the portion in contact with the strings being non-conductive. Then, instead of trying to wrap the pickups around the truss rod, just make the truss rod part of the pickup, maybe by making it out of a neodymium magnet.
I'll leave the rest of the r&d up to you.

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Fret noise wouldn't be a big issue. The idea is not to pickup from where the note is fretted, but to expand the range covered by pickups to cover all fundamental nodes. If you were to fret at the octave, for instance, that particular pickup perhaps wouldn't be recommendable. But who knows, might sound cool.

I don't really see a need for making the truss rod part of the magnet. The challenge would be to get it in there with the coils in the first place. Maybe the best solution is wide and flat coils which fit under or even above a truss rod. Or one could use an aluminum or composite neck which doesn't require a truss rod, although that would limit setup flexibility. Maybe having pickups in the neck would interfere with truss rod function aswell.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Pickup placement

Go ahead and build it, get rich and come back and rub it in our collective faces. As a side benefit, the wealth will allow you get all the chicks that you couldn't get beforehand.

You could be with me on this great idea but you are choosing hate.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Pickup placement

You could be with me on this great idea but you are choosing hate.

Hatred is an incredibly strong and nasty emotion. You don't come close to earning mine. Don't take that personally though. I can only think of 2 or 3 examples of things or individuals that do.

 

[PierceOkken]

Re: Pickup placement

I am going to pretend I didn't read this, he does have a point, but I will not admit that. Burn this, this tampers with the very fabric of the guitar universe!

 

[Plessure]

Re: Pickup placement

Hatred is an incredibly strong and nasty emotion. You don't come close to earning mine. Don't take that personally though. I can only think of 2 or 3 examples of things or individuals that do.

I can only tell what your response was to me, not how it compares to your internal frame of reference.

I am going to pretend I didn't read this, he does have a point, but I will not admit that. Burn this, this tampers with the very fabric of the guitar universe!

A tad more honest. We are getting somewhere!!!

Here are some pups that might fit:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yT5IJXqvu7k

Sound alright to me. Just make them a bit narrower, put them inside a hollow aluminum neck, cover with a fretboard. This should yield a working full pickup range guitar.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Pickup placement

Just because the poles are positioned at the same place as the frets doesn't mean that the area sensed couldn't be in between the frets. Same with combining the truss rod with the magnet. If you're going to think outside the box, then why not go for broke?

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[PierceOkken]

Re: Pickup placement

I understand where you are coming from and I have a fairly deep knowledge of music theory and octave and string vibration stuff. While this is scientifically a good idea, it is not going to work. Guitars have been made with bridge and neck pu's for about... ever since the electric guitar was invented. Change this now would be a massive leep in manufacturing. Also, puting a pickup in the neck is not a good idea becuase:
1. Your fingers while fretting would interfere (pushing the strings down right on top of the pickup creates unwanted noise, try it!)
2. Aesthetically and structurally this is a bad idea, the neck is not big enough to support an entire pickup and all of the necessary wiring
3. It would be expensive, guitars would probably jump in price quite a bit.
4. The rule "if you have thought of this, then someone else has"
-Chances are someone else has already tried, and it has not worked, so don't make the same mistake

That helps?

 

[Plessure]

Re: Pickup placement

Just because the poles are positioned at the same place as the frets doesn't mean that the area sensed couldn't be in between the frets. Same with combining the truss rod with the magnet. If you're going to think outside the box, then why not go for broke?

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I appreciate your input. You seem to be almost taking this idea seriously.

Not sure what you're saying here.

Are you saying this:

1. A pickup magnetic field covers a spectrum and not a point.

2. You might aswell make the truss rod magnetic if you're doing radical things already.

Is this interpretation right?