Pickup placement

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Re: Pickup placement

The problem, as I see it, is that the strings are fretted during play. 12th fret is the midpoint for an open string only. The pickup's placement relative to the center of the vibrating section would change drastically as you play up the neck, and a 12th fret pickup would be completely useless for notes played above the 12th fret.

Ever notice how a neck pickup's tone becomes somewhat brighter for notes played way up high? It's because the pickup is now much closer to the endpoint on the active portion of string. With conventional placement this becomes sort of an advantage on high notes. But you wouldn't want the same effect to come into play when you're playing at the ninth or tenth fret.

Everyone is trying to come up with reasons why a full pickup range guitar would suck. You should take a look at yourself instead.

Your criticism has been covered. Why not read a short thread before replying?
 
Re: Pickup placement

Now why you dragging common sense into this discussion? lol

The "common sense" is not at all foreign to this thread. In fact it's been discussed previously in this thread.

You're not being funny, witty or smart.
 
Re: Pickup placement

Everyone is trying to come up with reasons why a full pickup range guitar would suck. You should take a look at yourself instead.

Your criticism has been covered. Why not read a short thread before replying?

Quite frankly I'm surprised that you're so naive to think that any idea thrown up for discussion might have both negatives and positives. You seem ill equipped emotionally to deal with anyone who might find flaws with an idea. Maybe its time you looked at yourself a bit more closely.....pot calling kettle black and all.
Not only that but you've done it twice.......surely you've got enough memory retention ability to see how its going to go.
 
Re: Pickup placement

Quite frankly I'm surprised that you're so naive to think that any idea thrown up for discussion might have both negatives and positives. You seem ill equipped emotionally to deal with anyone who might find flaws with an idea. Maybe its time you looked at yourself a bit more closely.....pot calling kettle black and all.
Not only that but you've done it twice.......surely you've got enough memory retention ability to see how its going to go.

I don't have a problem with criticism. I have a problem with several people repeating the same criticism which i've already responded to. I also have a problem with conservative bias where for each new idea, criticism must be found - even such inane criticisms as the one about aluminum necks a page back or two. Because otherwise it would mean that someone came up with a good idea before you did and that cannot be allowed to happen, ever (even though in reality it does happen constantly).
 
Re: Pickup placement

But you yourself have done this thread twice now.....the criticisms are valid, no matter how many times you try and dismiss them.
And of course you are trying to portray valid downsides as sniping......because it can't happen that an idea could have flaws in it.
 
Re: Pickup placement

But you yourself have done this thread twice now.....the criticisms are valid, no matter how many times you try and dismiss them.
And of course you are trying to portray valid downsides as sniping......because it can't happen that an idea could have flaws in it.

Dissing the aluminum neck just because it could work for this concept is indeed sniping. Negative **** posting is indeed sniping. Some posts have been constructive. I've responded to each comment appropriately.

You don't have to be in this thread.
 
Re: Pickup placement

This thread in its second incarnation is wholly pointless, given its shortcomings were adequately described in the first going over......I wonder why you thought it necessary - especially so soon after its first airing??
 
Re: Pickup placement

This thread in its second incarnation is wholly pointless, given its shortcomings were adequately described in the first going over......I wonder why you thought it necessary - especially so soon after its first airing??

The first thread was about integrating pickups in the frets. This thread is about full pickup range, which on a traditional 20+ fret instrument would require pickups in the neck, not necessarily and probably not in the form of frets working as pickups. These subjects are related, of course.

How many threads are about "My new Les Paul"?

I understand your feelings. You don't.
 
Re: Pickup placement

Lets get back to discussing the topic. I am all for differing opinions until it turns into personal attacks...so please let's not let this get out of hand.
 
Re: Pickup placement

Well, maybe you're onto something. As an experiment, could you rig a regular ol' pickup into some kind of a moveable tension bracket/ trapeze gizmo that would temporarily suspend the pickup above the strings?...Something that would allow you to move the pickup back and forth along the neck? That way, you could find out first hand if picking up string vibes in non-traditonal areas (like the 12th fret area) even sound any good to you. If any of those tones do end up sounding musical and useful to you, then you could set about tackling the practical challenge of installing some kind of compact pickup into your fretboard. What about a small piezo type?
 
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Re: Pickup placement

Well, maybe you're onto something. As an experiment, could you rig a regular ol' pickup into some kind of a moveable tension bracket/ trapeze gizmo that would temporarily suspend the pickup above the strings?...Something that would allow you to move the pickup back and forth along the neck? That way, you could find out first hand if picking up string vibes in non-traditonal areas (like the 12th fret area) even sound any good to you. If any of those tones do end up sounding musical and useful to you, then you could set about tackling the practical challenge of installing some kind of compact pickup into your fretboard.

Excellent suggestion. This is the kind of input i was looking for. Thank you very much.

It could be a simple rig. Perhaps as simple as lying the guitar flat and attaching a pickup to a stand of appropriate height beside it.

In terms of tonal purity, this would far surpass rolling off tone on a pickup placed traditionally. It's not like people only ever use a bridge pickup with varying filters/EQ, so why would you only ever use the bridge and neck if there was more range available?
 
Re: Pickup placement

Maybe you should look at the traditional finnish instrument called kantele for this idea:

Kantele.jpg

Plenty of room to add pickups wherever you want them on string leght.

I recall there are electric versions of the instrument, but I have no experience with them, or don't know how they're built.
 
Re: Pickup placement

I never said that I thought the idea sucked and I never criticized the OP for suggesting it. Pointing out possible problems is not the same as dismissing an idea outright.

Has it been mentioned out that a few electric models have been made with piezo pickups built into the neck underneath the fretboard? As I recall, for a while Zappa had a guitar with piezos in the neck pocket too.

Coupla points to add regarding some other posts:

Aluminum is not unsuitable for guitar necks; I owned one on a Kramer more than 35 years ago. Beyond the contemporary builder mentioned upthread, there have been aluminum-necked models from various companies going back many decades. In fact the first practical electric guitar, the 1931 "frying pan" lap steel, was made of cast aluminum. As for the tone, that's a matter of taste, which I'm not addressing here. It would definitely be possible to make a metal neck with a pickup (or multiple pickups) built into it. Casting a neck from scratch might be something of a project but isn't impossible. If you could get your hands on a pre-made aluminum neck, you could mill out spaces for pickups however you want; that could be done in any well-equipped machine shop.

On issues of placement: First, there is no such thing as a standard bridge pickup position, it varies quite a bit from one design to another. Secondly, "as close to the bridge as possible" is far from an ideal position for a pickup; it's weak and harsh which is why nearly every guitar design places the lead pickup at least a few millimeters away from the bridge. And thirdly, someone suggested that the vibrations are strongest near the end of the vibrating section. This is absolutely not the case- they're strongest in the center, which was the whole reason for the OP's idea in the first place.

The octave harmonic is not a myth. It always occurs at the midpoint of a vibrating string. Period. This is physics, as is the fact that amplitude of the vibrations is strongest at the midpoint (except when the string is sounding a harmonic rather than a fundamental and is effectively vibrating as two or more sections). A pickup at the midpoint would indeed produce more output and more low end than one nearer the endpoint. It has correctly been pointed out that a Strat neck pickup sounds the way it does because it's closer to the midpoint, not because it's where the 24th fret would have been. The neck pickup on a 24-fret guitar (or an SG) sounds brighter and less full than the one on a Les Paul because it's placed a bit nearer to the bridge on those guitars than it would be on a Les Paul.

Small changes in pickup placement can result in significant tone differences. Not just those SG vs LP neck pickups- I can affirm the effect is pretty drastic on bridge pickups too. Many years ago I moved the lead pickup on one of my Floydcasters a little farther from the bridge and it made a world of difference in the tone. Sweeter, fatter, and noticeably louder, all from a move of maybe a quarter inch. I was amazed at how much better the same pickup sounded in the same guitar. I mentioned this just the other day on another thread, after having forgotten about it for years.
 
Re: Pickup placement

The octave harmonic is not a myth. It always occurs at the midpoint of a vibrating string. Period. This is physics, as is the fact that amplitude of the vibrations is strongest at the midpoint (except when the string is sounding a harmonic rather than a fundamental and is effectively vibrating as two or more sections). A pickup at the midpoint would indeed produce more output and more low end than one nearer the endpoint. It has correctly been pointed out that a Strat neck pickup sounds the way it does because it's closer to the midpoint, not because it's where the 24th fret would have been. The neck pickup on a 24-fret guitar (or an SG) sounds brighter and less full than the one on a Les Paul because it's placed a bit nearer to the bridge on those guitars than it would be on a Les Paul.

I never doubted octave harmonic to be a myth. That it occurs at the middle of the string is obvious. Closer you get to that point, stronger the output and more low end you get, is also obvious.

"Not because it's where the 24th should have been"
is the answer to a question I made. So that the pickup placement under the octave has some special tonal qualities is a myth, you say?

I think it is.
 
Re: Pickup placement

So that the pickup placement under the octave has some special tonal qualities is a myth, you say?

I think it is.

I don't think the 2nd octave/24th fret placement is magic. There are many who do. And I can understand the myth that's grown around that placement, because I really love Strat neck tone too.

Still, that neck tone is great for notes all over the fretboard, not just for the open string. In fact I feel its sweeter for fretted notes than open ones. And open string is the only situation when it's actually under the 2nd octave. It sounds fabulous but IMO that isn't because of any special magic due to the harmonic.
 
Re: Pickup placement

I don't know if it is a myth, but it seems to matter more how far the pickup is from the bridge. But, neck pickups on 22 fret guitars don't sound like 24 fret guitars. That is true. If you like one better than the other, that is a preference. But I hate the sound of neck pickups on 24 fret guitars. Whatever the cause of the sound I don't like it...and I use a neck pickup 90% of the time.
 
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