Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

[Ningirsu]

Since this is my first post on this forum let me say hi to all users reading this and I'm sorry for the fact my first post is a question but I'll be trying to help around within my knowledge in the future.

Anyway,about my question,I'm planning to buy a Hagström Viking http://www.hagstromguitars.com/viking.html
which is simply a very similar guitar to the Gibson's ES-335 series except the maple neck which BB King prefers on his signature and the resinator fretboard which sounds similar to ebony (then again the choice of BB King) rather than rosewood.
When I've read the reviews about it,I found out that its sound qualities are a bit questionable on certain aspects so the first thing that popped into my head was to change its pickups with my trustworthy brand Seymour Duncan.
So here's the dilemma,as far as I looked for only Alnico II Pro and Pearly Gates pickups seem to respond well to hollowbodies and ebony fretboards.As far as the neck position goes,the Alnico II Pro seems like a definitive choice but I'm stuck between choosing a Pearly Gates or an Alnico II Pro for the bridge and I'm asking your recommendation on this issue.
Since you may need info on what I want to do with those pickups I'd say my primary target is to achieve a perfect blues tone similar to BB's (country too) and secondly maybe go from there to a range of classic rock since the other genres I can cover with my Dimebucker pickup on my Dean Razorback.
Thanks everybody beforehand for any answers,
Regards.

P.S:I'm also considering the Antiquity set but I didn't find any info on how they react to hollowbodies so if anybody has any experience on that topic it's also widely welcomed for them to express their views.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

antiquitys are beautiful in hollowbodys, if you want classic 1958 es335 tone the antiquitys are great. smooth warm and sweet. i prefer them over the aph. the pearly might be a little toothy for bb king style blues if you dont like to use your tone contol

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

TV JONES . . .


. . . if we can recommend "out-side" of the Duncan Family !


James

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

Duncan / Jones ... does tone get any better ?


James

 

[ES350]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

If you want the BB tone, you need the Varitone circuit...any PAF type pickup will get it.

 

[Ningirsu]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

antiquitys are beautiful in hollowbodys, if you want classic 1958 es335 tone the antiquitys are great. smooth warm and sweet. i prefer them over the aph. the pearly might be a little toothy for bb king style blues if you dont like to use your tone contol

Thank you for your post on the Antiquity set,I'll definitely give them a chance although I have to ask if I'm going to be able to extend my range to classic rock with only amp controls and without any effect pedals.
I already use my tone controls a lot and I don't mind if I'd have to.I just want to have an original PAF tone which would give me mainly the Mississippi-Chicago sound but whom I can take also to the 70s rock.
The reason why I considered Pearly Gates was actually that it was recommended with Alnico II Pro for "hotter" blues sounds.

 

[Ningirsu]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

TV JONES . . .


. . . if we can recommend "out-side" of the Duncan Family !


James

I'm not sure about the outside-SD proposals yet I can tell you that TV Jones Pickups don't have any dealer in my country so that option doesn't work for me.Although I guess I can always have a set while I'll be in France next year so I'd like to have more info on them.As far as I get it,they're widely associated with Gretsch,right?

 

[Ningirsu]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

If you want the BB tone, you need the Varitone circuit...any PAF type pickup will get it.

I'd kill to get that circuit but that's one of the rare subjects I don't literally know anything about. So,I'd be more than glad if you could provide me with the URL to the official webpage of the company whoever's producing it...

 

[jeremy]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

you can get bb's tone by using both pups and messing with the volume and tone settings, you dont need a varitone

antiquitys can do almost anything, not metal but classic rock is fine.

the pearly gates reminds me of a great tele bridge pup, they can sound fat as heck but can also have snarl and bite. im a huge fan of the pearly gates set but they arent for every one

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

I'd kill to get that circuit but that's one of the rare subjects I don't literally know anything about. So,I'd be more than glad if you could provide me with the URL to the official webpage of the company whoever's producing it...

I had a vari-tone in a Lucille, and was very disappointed in it. The tones are weak & thin because of all the capacitors. I've talked to other players who've had vari-tones & all of them leave it in the "bypass" position. I can't find anyone who's used one & likes it. It's a large piece of equipment & the only way to get it in a 335 is to cut a panel in the back. It won't fit in a solid body, unless you cut a bigger control cavity.

On paper, a vari-tone looks great; in practice it's a flop. One of best ways to tell if something works is by the number of other companies that copy it. No one followed Gibson on this; same with triple HB guitars (the market went with HSS & HSH which proved to be far better tone-wise). While Gibson came up with most of the best guitars & innovations in the 1940's & 1950's, they still perpetuate their mistakes too.

If you want more tones from a guitar, use series, parallel, coil cut, & phase. I have the 4 push-pull Jimmy Page system in several guitars, and it gives many more useful tones than a vari-tone. You can put push-pulls and mini-toggles in any guitar.

 

[BigAlTheBird]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

TV Jones.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

First let's find out if it's a semi-hollow or a true archtop (some in the link have trapeze tails). An archtop provides a lot of warmth on its own, more than a semi-hollow, so you don't need as warm a pu as for a semi-hollow.

 

[Ningirsu]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

I had a vari-tone in a Lucille, and was very disappointed in it. The tones are weak & thin because of all the capacitors. I've talked to other players who've had vari-tones & all of them leave it in the "bypass" position. I can't find anyone who's used one & likes it. It's a large piece of equipment & the only way to get it in a 335 is to cut a panel in the back. It won't fit in a solid body, unless you cut a bigger control cavity.

On paper, a vari-tone looks great; in practice it's a flop. One of best ways to tell if something works is by the number of other companies that copy it. No one followed Gibson on this; same with triple HB guitars (the market went with HSS & HSH which proved to be far better tone-wise). While Gibson came up with most of the best guitars & innovations in the 1940's & 1950's, they still perpetuate their mistakes too.

If you want more tones from a guitar, use series, parallel, coil cut, & phase. I have the 4 push-pull Jimmy Page system in several guitars, and it gives many more useful tones than a vari-tone. You can put push-pulls and mini-toggles in any guitar.

Thank you for your thorough answer.
I'd be more than happy to be able to use the options you mentioned above but the only one I know how to make use of is coil splitting push/pull systems since I'm familiar with them on PRS'. Plus,I'm not a big fan of putting new toggles on my guitars thus I'd like to know more about parallel and phase systems. If you know any book or website that I could learn about these options in a detailed manner you're more than welcomed to provide my humble personality with a few of 'em.
Thanks in order..

 

[Ningirsu]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

First let's find out if it's a semi-hollow or a true archtop (some in the link have trapeze tails). An archtop provides a lot of warmth on its own, more than a semi-hollow, so you don't need as warm a pu as for a semi-hollow.

Well,to be honest,I'm more of a solid body player (actually that's the very same reason why I want to buy a semi-hollow/archtop guitar,to have a little versatility) so I don't think that I clearly know the difference between a semi-hollow and an archtop. But the one I'm considering is definitely one of the models with trapeze tails although I have to say that I'd be willing to change it to a stop tail if it'd be more useful and practical.So I'd like to know your opinion and information between these two options as tailpieces.
And like I said before all I'm looking is something between a Gibson ES335 and Lucille.For example,I'm also wondering the differences between a stoptail and a TP-6 fine tuning bridge system..

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

The best book I've found is "Guitar Electronics for Musicians" by Donald Brosnac. Also helpful is "How to make your guitar play and sound great" by Dan Erlewine. Both are available online from Stewart MacDonald. The wiring diagrams on this website are some of the best out there, & they have them for almost everything; for anything else Artie is the man to ask (the man's a genius). This will get you up to speed.

Get some pots, caps, and an assortment of spare magnets so you can make instant changes & dial in your tones. No waiting, and no paying someone else for work you can do.

I use push-pull pots (instead of mini-toggles) as there's no drilling holes. What you don't want is to put in mini-toggles and then change PU's to single lead, and not have any use for the mini-toggles. Push-pulls are more forgiving. Start simple & work your way up to more complicated wirings.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

Well,to be honest,I'm more of a solid body player (actually that's the very same reason why I want to buy a semi-hollow/archtop guitar,to have a little versatility) so I don't think that I clearly know the difference between a semi-hollow and an archtop. But the one I'm considering is definitely one of the models with trapeze tails although I have to say that I'd be willing to change it to a stop tail if it'd be more useful and practical.So I'd like to know your opinion and information between these two options as tailpieces.
And like I said before all I'm looking is something between a Gibson ES335 and Lucille.For example,I'm also wondering the differences between a stoptail and a TP-6 fine tuning bridge system..

"Arch top" is a guitar that is thicker in the middle than the edges. This includes 335's, many hollowbody electrics, and Les Pauls. A full hollowbody (like an Epi casino) has to have a trapeze tailpiece, as there's not enough wood on top to anchor posts in (string tension would pull them out). Stop bars transfer more vibration & tone to the body than a tailpiece, and give more sustain. A 335 has a solid center block, with a stop bar mounted in it & will have nice warm tones and sustain. A hollowbody with a tailpiece has complex acoustic overtones, with less sustain, and is subject to feedback at higher volumes.

The Lucille I had was equipped with a TP-6 tailpiece. I rarely used it, as you have a set of tuners on the headstock that work just fine. The knobs for tuning on the TP-6 are very close together & hard to turn. If it was a useful option, it would have been copied a lot. It's an expensive option that you'll rarely use. Put your money into high-quality PU's instead. A standard stop bar is hard to beat, especially with a tune-o-matic bridge.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

Which Viking model are you interested in? The Deluxe & Viking both look nice. They're semi-hollow (center block). The flame maple top looks sharp, and the black/gold model looks like a Lucille. The F holes are big enough to easily fit push-pulls (whether now or later). I personally wouldn't go with the Viking II, as has a bolt-on neck and a cheesy Fender-looking headstock.

If you take off the tailpiece to put in a stop bar, you'll have a couple small screw holes on the bottom rim. Plus you have to drill big new holes in the top, which won't help the value of the guitar. I'd leave it with a tailpiece. You could get a different tailpiece though, like a traditional trapeze.

 

[Ningirsu]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

It definitely is an archtop model but they use a trapeze tail piece with it.They also said on that page "Our most sought-after hollowbody",though I don't know for sure if that has a defining meaning to your question.If it does,I'm waiting for some answers Zhangliqun

 

[Ningirsu]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

Which Viking model are you interested in? The Deluxe & Viking both look nice. They're semi-hollow (center block). The flame maple top looks sharp, and the black/gold model looks like a Lucille. The F holes are big enough to easily fit push-pulls (whether now or later). I personally wouldn't go with the Viking II, as has a bolt-on neck and a cheesy Fender-looking headstock.

If you take off the tailpiece to put in a stop bar, you'll have a couple small screw holes on the bottom rim. Plus you have to drill big new holes in the top, which won't help the value of the guitar. I'd leave it with a tailpiece. You could get a different tailpiece though, like a traditional trapeze.

I'm interested in the Viking model although it lacks the beautiful flame maple top you mentioned because only it has my favorite colors of choice which are the Lucille-like,wild cherry and tobacco burst.I'll definitely add some push-pulls there later although I'm not too sure whether the Antiquity set or Pearly Gates/Alnico II Pro would respond well to it.If there's anybody who already tried anything similar on those pickups I'd appreciate some feedback on their experiences.And all the cons you mentioned on the Viking II has noted already
I'd love to install a stopbar instead but the aspects you mentioned has put my mind on keeping the tailpiece.Although since any other tailpiece would be the same thing I'll probably keep the stock one in the name of originality in case it gets much more worthy in the next 40 years
By the way,I never even played a trapeze tailpieced instrument so could you provide me with some information on how you use it or how you change the strings on it? And is there any effect that the trapeze tailpiece add or takes out tonally to a guitar?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pickup Set Recommendation For A Hollow-Body Guitar

By the way,I never even played a trapeze tailpieced instrument so could you provide me with some information on how you use it or how you change the strings on it? And is there any effect that the trapeze tailpiece add or takes out tonally to a guitar?

The strings fit on the underside of the front of a tailpiece. There's slots for each string.

Tailpieces originally came about from the extra tension generated from metal strings, as a typical acoustic bridge wasn't sufficient to handle the pressure at that time (and also didn't allow for intonation and string height adjustments). Because they have some vibration themselves while the strings are moving, tailpieces reduce sustain slightly. A stop bar transfers string vibration directly to the guitar's body (or center block) and probably adds a little low end, whereas a tailpiece passes it along to the bottom. Either way, you still have the bridge passing vibrations to the body, and then to the PU's. That gives each method a slightly different tone, but not as big a difference as switching amps would be.