Pickup Winding - Does Pattern Matter

[THRobinson]

I'm starting to design a pickup wonder and debating how elaborate I should get with the design.

I was looking to possibly design something with preset wind patterns but, in the Arduino forum, it's been mentioned that wind patterns affecting sound/tone is a myth.

I know many things are a factor... Poles, magnets, bobbin material, wire gauge and tension while winding... But does pattern really make a difference?

Does anyone have any first hand experience? A lot of what I'm seeing in other forum posts seems like people regurgitating info they were told but never heard proof of. If pattern does affect tone, in which way?

 

[Artie]

. . . in the Arduino forum, it's been mentioned that wind patterns affecting sound/tone is a myth.

I'm not a winder, but having been in electronics for over half a century, that's just silly. The tightness of the wind will affect both inductance and capacitance. Both will have a critical impact on the resulting tone. A "scatter" wind will sound different than a tight wind.

Actual winders will chime in with pertinent details.

 

[Mincer]

If it does matter, I doubt I could hear it. Then you have to think if you could compensate for an apparent EQ difference some other way, too.

 

[beaubrummels]

There's already been a comment on this forum by a Duncan employee that packing the wind nearer the top, middle or bottom of the bobbin affects treble response and overall tonal response, so I would take that as a yes, it matters.

But I don't see how you could properly design a winding machine without understanding precisely what effects different wind patterns have and to what degree, in order to build a machine that can produce the desired result of the person winding the pickup.

 

[freefrog]

If we define 'pattern" as "how wire is packed around a bobbin" , maybe there's something to chew in a vid like this one: https://youtu.be/b4SEOpVOPlM

 

[Clint 55]

Yes, coil geometry is one of the deciding factors in the resultant tone. That's why pickup builders are in business. They've amassed a data base of coil data so they can create the correct type of pickup (and others can't). Put 16.6k worth of wire on a humbucker in any configuration and see if you end up with a JB.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Yes, coil geometry is one of the deciding factors in the resultant tone. That's why pickup builders are in business. They've amassed a data base of coil data so they can create the correct type of pickup (and others can't). Put 16.6k worth of wire on a humbucker in any configuration and see if you end up with a JB.

I bet a JB’s coils are symmetrically wound, not scatter, and would be pretty easy to recreate.

A JBJ, on the other hand…

 

[GuitarDoc]

I'm not a pup winder, but Seymour and other winders use different patterns to fine tune their pups. There are several very accomplished winders on this forum who also say that the wind pattern, tension, symetry of wind, amount and type of wire all have an affect on the tone/performance of the pup. I trust all of these...they know what they're doing!

If you are building a winder and don't thoroughly know and understand these principles going in to it, you are wasting a lot of time and money both building it and using it. If you are building it for a project and to learn about all of this, kudos to you and I applaud your efforts.

 

[Mincer]

Yeah, I am sure everything matters, but when just broken down to a pattern that is, say, 20% different from one to another, I don't know if I could pin that down. Especially after I uninstall one pickup and install the next.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

IMO scatter and profile (flat, humped, or hourglass on the bobbins) both matter.

 

[AlexR]

We've had a few custom winders here on the forum. They have said pattern on the micro and macro scale are important.

 

[zionstrat]

I'm starting to design a pickup wonder and debating how elaborate I should get with the design.

I was looking to possibly design something with preset wind patterns but, in the Arduino forum, it's been mentioned that wind patterns affecting sound/tone is a myth.

I know many things are a factor... Poles, magnets, bobbin material, wire gauge and tension while winding... But does pattern really make a difference?

Does anyone have any first hand experience? A lot of what I'm seeing in other forum posts seems like people regurgitating info they were told but never heard proof of. If pattern does affect tone, in which way?

Other members have done a good job describing some of the factors and the impact that they have. However if you're new to winding, I would suggest you put that to the side for the moment.

Before you can get anywhere with your own designs, you're going to need a lot of consistency.. your first 20 Strat coils are going to be significantly different. Your first 10 humbuckers will also be all over the place.

After a while, you start getting a feel for wire pressure and you'll start having an input into the pattern. You need that consistency before you can plan a lot of variation cuz variation is going to be random in the beginning.

Also, equipment is important. Get a decent rig and stick with it until you've got the basics down.

 

[Mincer]

If you decide to experiment with this stuff, it would be wonderful to share what you learned.

 

[jeremy]

I bet a JB’s coils are symmetrically wound, not scatter, and would be pretty easy to recreate.

A JBJ, on the other hand…

eerrrrr... wrong. mj wasnt handing winding jbs. the only one that did that was seymour way back in the day. pafs were machine wound so literally almost all duncan buckers have always been machine wound. fender single coils were hand guided back in the day so there are plenty of hand guided duncan single coils, but im sure most production models are machine wound at this point. wind patter does make a difference. way more than bobbin material in my experience.

 

[Demanic]

Winding is like cooking. Plenty of room for different flavors that all still taste good. And plenty more ways for someone who doesn't know what they are doing to make something completely unpalatable.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

 

[JB_From_Hell]

eerrrrr... wrong. mj wasnt handing winding jbs. the only one that did that was seymour way back in the day. pafs were machine wound so literally almost all duncan buckers have always been machine wound. fender single coils were hand guided back in the day so there are plenty of hand guided duncan single coils, but im sure most production models are machine wound at this point. wind patter does make a difference. way more than bobbin material in my experience.

Was being a smartass about the JBJ, just trying to stir up the non-believers.