Pickup - wood combinations. Do they matter?

[Rex_Rocker]

Now, hear me out. I'm not going into the tonewood debate here. I do think wood makes a difference, but that's not the point here.

I often read people request recommendations and say "it's going into an x-wood guitar". Does it matter?

I know manufacturers use tens of different types of Mahogany. Even if using the same species, wood differes from piece to piece. I've had Mahogany guitars be brighter than my current Alder Strat. I'm sure you've all experienced that too.

I think a more important factor (IMO) is pickup placement on the top of the guitar. Bridge pickups mounted closer to the bridge itself are brighter/thinner. 24 fret guitars that move the neck pickup's position closer to the bridge lose a bit of that neck pickup throatiness/boominess/warmth too.

But most importantly, what's most important is what tone you're looking to get out of your guitar. I would consider it unthinkable to have an (just to name an example) Invader on a really dark guitar. But some people like that tone. Plenty of examples of people making it work it that way. Same goes for, say, a Dimebucker in the bridge position of a really thin and wiry guitar. I mean, after all, Fenders are stereotypically bright both acoustically and electronically with the single coil pickups.

At the same time, my second point is I have never tried (nor do I think I'll ever) a guitar so dark, bassy, and dull to make a Dimebucker sound balanced when amplified. Nor a guitar so thin and wiry to make me feel an Invader is balanced. Not to say the acoustic sound of the guitar does not make a difference, but does it make enough of a difference to make you love a pickup you hated?

Do you guys not agree? Let's discuss.

 

[dave74]

If I was set on not using the amp's tone stack then yes I can see some pickups being much more balanced in their EQ/filtering.
On the other hand, I can easily make an Invader very bright and a Dimebucker very dark, simply by adjusting the amp.

I like the Dime in guitars that have a naturally softer top and bottom, and I've found basswood bodies and mahogany necks to usually (much more often than not) have those qualities.

I like Invaders in guitars that have a snappier and/or more deadened low-end and crisper/brighter highs. I have a full hard maple guitar with ebony, stainless, and floyd that really fits those traits to a tee, but also many maple neck-thru alder or ash models are like that too.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

If I was set on not using the amp's tone stack then yes I can see some pickups being much more balanced in their EQ/filtering.

That wasn't exactly what I was saying.

I'm saying that in my experience, a Dimebucker in a naturally dark guitar will probably still come out brighter than, say, an Invader in a naturally bright guitar.

JME, of course.

Not saying either is bad, BTW. I don't like either of those pickups, personally, but that doesn't mean they're not good pickups on their own right.

 

[dave74]

That wasn't exactly what I was saying.

I'm saying that in my experience, a Dimebucker in a naturally dark guitar will probably still come out brighter than, say, an Invader in a naturally bright guitar.

JME, of course.

Not saying either is bad, BTW. I don't like either of those pickups, personally, but that doesn't mean they're not good pickups on their own right.

Yes I agree with that, but once you start using the boost and/or amp's eq sections then does it really matter?

For me it's always about the low-end's nature, meaning how clean vs how soft/compressed it is, which has way more to do with the feel and attack of the lows than it does the EQ spectrum.

If I can get the right pickup/guitar,boost combination together to make the low-end "feel" how I want, then the EQ spectrum is super easy to shape with the boost and amp.

That is why I've never been a fan of using classic emgs with a typical tubescreamer boost, because they do too much of the same thing in regards to the compression/softening of the lows.

I've never considered chopping the lows to be the same as tightening the lows. My VFE focus pedal works great with emgs because you can chop some lows without nearly as much softening/compressing as you get with a screamer.
The focus has no clipping diodes in the circuit so the lows stay cleaner and more percussive no matter how much or little you chop.

 

[dave74]

Pickups definitely have much more affect on the EQ spectrum than the wood types. For sure.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Yes I agree with that, but once you start using the boost and/or amp's eq sections then does it really matter?

For me it's always about the low-end's nature, meaning how clean vs how soft/compressed it is, which has way more to do with the feel and attack of the lows than it does the EQ spectrum.

If I can get the right pickup/guitar,boost combination together to make the low-end "feel" how I want, then the EQ spectrum is super easy to shape with the boost and amp.

That is why I've never been a fan of using classic emgs with a typical tubescreamer boost, because they do too much of the same thing in regards to the compression/softening of the lows.

I've never considered chopping the lows to be the same as tightening the lows. My VFE focus pedal works great with emgs because you can chop some lows without nearly as much softening/compressing as you get with a screamer.
The focus has no clipping diodes in the circuit so the lows stay cleaner and more percussive no matter how much or little you chop.

I do think it matters if the amp's EQ section is not pre-distortion like the Mark stuff is. I'm just saying "brighter" not to go too specific, but "brighter" is indeed way too much of an oversimplification. Because no matter how much you tweak the amp's treble knob if the treble in your pickup is hitting the first stages in a certain way, thus distorting in a certain way.

Or the bass. And that's exactly what you're doing with your Focus.

Then again, agreed. The right boost can take care of these deficiencies/excesses for the most part.

But another part we're omitting is DCR and the way in interacts with the amp's/pedals input impedance. Or the cables' capacitance. Or the output in mV. Because many amps have a bright cap that changes the character of the distortion as you turn the gain knob up/down. But that's not really the point of the thread, LOL.

 

[GuitarStv]

The type of wood doesn't really matter much if at all - every species of wood has very wide variances, and at best you can only guess at what sound is likely to come from a certain pairing. The individual piece of wood might matter to the frequencies emphasized. The pickup is more important to the amplified sound though than either in my experience.

 

[Chistopher]

What people don't talk about enough is string guage. I don't care if your Les Paul is made out of the darkest mahogany ever grown, if you're playing on a set of 8s, it's going to be brighter and snappier than a Strat strung with 12s. Simple as.

 

[ICTGoober]

Another rabbit hole opened up. REALLY?

 

[zionstrat]

Yep, string gauge is one of the biggest factors and it's so often overlooked because people don't think... 12 gauge strings will thicken up your sound the ways you'd never imagined and they're the same thing it's light acoustic strings

https://www.guitaryoudreamabout.com...p-your-guitar-tone-pickup-heights-and-strings

But one thing to keep in mind is all of these variables interact... They all have an impact but you often have to mess around to find the right mix for the right guitar in the right setup...

 

[Mincer]

I think everything matters if you are chasing a tone. My experiments in wood and pickups (and amps and effects) show that everything matters, from string gauge to wood type. You have to take it all into consideration.

It is possible however that that using a ton of gain can obliterate the natural tone of an instrument or pedals.

 

[ToneFiddler]

I had the same pickups in different les Pauls,
and other pickups in different teles.
the tele neck pocket and bridge positions are all very similar (same template)

the character of the guitar always comes trough.
and the guitar PU combo can make for a great fit or not.
Dime might be totally harsh and steril or just nice and agressive, but that pickup will always on the rather bright side. Could be tamed with lower pot values of course.
i got 2 LPs ( very middy with not much bass and highs) where the dime will sound good and 3( big bass and bright) where it will sound too extreme for my taste. But if you will like the dime in those first 2 I don’t know.

There are variations within all wood species, but the alder guitars I have don’t vary as much as for example the Mahagoni slaps.
I change necks around on the teles and they are at least as important as the body by itself (all maple, some birdseye and different neck thicknesses.
but I got quite a few now and the blind test gets hard since I don’t play some not that often and don’t know them too well.

but I swap pickups between the teles quite often, and yes the differences are still big enough so a pickup might sound good in one and bad in another.

if I really want to like a pickup, I will not give up until the 3rd guitar I tried it in.
Actually it should be the other way around,
find a pickup for your guitar, but it gotten a bit out of hand, so this happend
And then, some guitars are not worth finding a good pickup match.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I agree that the character of the wood always acoustic guitar always comes through... but how much is what I'm debating.

There are variations within all wood species, but the alder guitars I have don’t vary as much as for example the Mahagoni slaps.

IME, disagreed. My Fender Strat (Alder body, maple neck and fretboard) is fatter than most Mahogany guitars I've had. Hell, I think it's even darker acoustically than my Gibson Les Paul (Mahogany body, Maple neck, and Rosewood board). Even if the Strat has thinner strings (11-54's vs. 12-56's on the LP).

 

[Rex_Rocker]

It is possible however that that using a ton of gain can obliterate the natural tone of an instrument or pedals.

I think that's debatable. For people who use clean tones mostly, I get it that gain sounds "flatten out" the differences. For someone who is obsesses about picking out the tiny differences between gain sounds, it might be night and day difference. I tend to lean more towards the latter.

 

[beaubrummels]

IME it's a balancing equation. Every element matters, the degree each matters is widely different, and if you are being exacting about a resulting tone you are after, then knowing the wood species as a start, and the specific guitar moreover, is useful in choosing pickups and wiring that will work with, or counteract, the guitar to get the result you want.

 

[GuitarDoc]

There are a lot of good points made so far (and some not-so-good points).
Basically, in an electric guitar (not including the amp and speaker...which make a HUGE difference) the pickups make the greatest contribution to its tone, by far.
Wood certainly contributes but (all else being equal) the greatest effect comes from the fretboard, neck, body (back), and body cap (front)...in that order. Yes, even body size and shape make some difference.
The types of wood in a guitar will "tweak" the sound of the pup...not the other way around.

And, yes, it is absolutely true that..."using a ton of gain can obliterate the natural tone of an instrument", including the tone from pup and different instrument parts/woods.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I would persnally say that bridge type and material makes a difference too. Maybe as large if not larger than the wood.

 

[ICTGoober]

It's the whole chain - from the player's fingertips to the speaker cone.

 

[Chistopher]

Wood certainly contributes but (all else being equal) the greatest effect comes from the fretboard, neck, body (back), and body cap (front)...in that order.

I've never understood the argument that of the neck woods, the fretboard makes the most difference. It's the smallest part of the board in terms of mass and the strings never touch it. Could you explain it to me?

 

[beaubrummels]

It's the whole chain - from the player's fingertips to the speaker cone.

^^^^ THIS

/thread