Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???
You did *not* just bring carpet cheese into this discussion!
You did *not* just bring carpet cheese into this discussion!
Pickups for mahogany Tele???
- Thread starter papersoul
- Start date
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???
I want none of your cheese on my carpet.
I want none of your cheese on my carpet.
N
NickyTyler
Guest
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???
OP:
If you haven't already, I think the jb/jazz set would be a great choice. I have that set in a few of my guitars and has always worked out great.
My 2 cents on the tonewood debate:
I have no scientific data to spew... just a guitar player who's owned many..many...many guitars.
I will say from my experiences that more often than not, the tone of the guitars has been on par with the general tonewood characteristics I've read. I think this is more than pure coincidence.
I believe there is some logic to the woods chosen in guitars... as opposed to the conspiracy theory that the use of different woods by manufactures is nothing more than an elaborate scam designed to up-sell uneducated consumers.
OP:
If you haven't already, I think the jb/jazz set would be a great choice. I have that set in a few of my guitars and has always worked out great.
My 2 cents on the tonewood debate:
I have no scientific data to spew... just a guitar player who's owned many..many...many guitars.
I will say from my experiences that more often than not, the tone of the guitars has been on par with the general tonewood characteristics I've read. I think this is more than pure coincidence.
I believe there is some logic to the woods chosen in guitars... as opposed to the conspiracy theory that the use of different woods by manufactures is nothing more than an elaborate scam designed to up-sell uneducated consumers.
Myaccount876
Amira-Maker
Re: Pickups for mahogany Tele???
Please stop misusing the word science. You're giving us people who don't wave the word around like idiots a bad name.
If it is subjective, it isn't science.
If it is out of bounds for proper experimentation, it isn't science.
Tone is subjective - therefore it works for both sides of this argument, someone saying a certain wood species sounds bad is being foolish. Someone who claims they get a great or even better tone with plywood just as with an actual hardwood guitar and that hardwood is inferior is just as foolish. Science? No. Opinion? Yes.
You cannot properly conduct an experiment for woods sounding different in musical instruments. For guitars and its variants, here is why:
- You can test/measure sound frequencies easily, just as with pickups, but it is difficult if not impossible to test/measure dynamics, just as with pickups.
- Quality of electronics used. To have the EXACT SAME control variables between guitars to prove guitars and the woods used have no impact in sound you'd have to use potentiometers with the EXACT same reading down to the last ohm, the same brand and type of wires used, same exact AMOUNT of wire used, exact amount of solder used in the exact same places, same length of pickup hookup wires, same amp, same bias, same type and brand of tubes, same amount of usage time with tubes, same strings, same amount of usage on strings, same fretwire, same usage of frets, same nut, same bridge, same tuning pegs, same scale, same intonation, exact same action down to the last nanometer, same entire bridge setup, same type of finish, same thickness of finish, same amount of wear on finish, same amount of time since application of finish, same amp rectifier with same amount of usage, same amount of voltage amp is receiving, same microphone in same exact placement, exact same amp settings, the list goes on...
Also the sound is affected by compression of sound files, the brand and model of microphone used will also impact the sound. You would need to have at least ALL of these controls, and change only the types of wood and you still will not get a completely accurate result due to the inability to test/measure dynamics. A guitar's tone cannot be tested, and therefore does not fall into the margins of science.
By the way before you call me delusional and a blind believer, I did not say my view or opinion on the wood issue. I could very well agree completely with you, and I can also disagree completely. You have no idea what I think and that is to keep you free from bias.
Please stop misusing the word science. You're giving us people who don't wave the word around like idiots a bad name.
If it is subjective, it isn't science.
If it is out of bounds for proper experimentation, it isn't science.
Tone is subjective - therefore it works for both sides of this argument, someone saying a certain wood species sounds bad is being foolish. Someone who claims they get a great or even better tone with plywood just as with an actual hardwood guitar and that hardwood is inferior is just as foolish. Science? No. Opinion? Yes.
You cannot properly conduct an experiment for woods sounding different in musical instruments. For guitars and its variants, here is why:
- You can test/measure sound frequencies easily, just as with pickups, but it is difficult if not impossible to test/measure dynamics, just as with pickups.
- Quality of electronics used. To have the EXACT SAME control variables between guitars to prove guitars and the woods used have no impact in sound you'd have to use potentiometers with the EXACT same reading down to the last ohm, the same brand and type of wires used, same exact AMOUNT of wire used, exact amount of solder used in the exact same places, same length of pickup hookup wires, same amp, same bias, same type and brand of tubes, same amount of usage time with tubes, same strings, same amount of usage on strings, same fretwire, same usage of frets, same nut, same bridge, same tuning pegs, same scale, same intonation, exact same action down to the last nanometer, same entire bridge setup, same type of finish, same thickness of finish, same amount of wear on finish, same amount of time since application of finish, same amp rectifier with same amount of usage, same amount of voltage amp is receiving, same microphone in same exact placement, exact same amp settings, the list goes on...
Also the sound is affected by compression of sound files, the brand and model of microphone used will also impact the sound. You would need to have at least ALL of these controls, and change only the types of wood and you still will not get a completely accurate result due to the inability to test/measure dynamics. A guitar's tone cannot be tested, and therefore does not fall into the margins of science.
By the way before you call me delusional and a blind believer, I did not say my view or opinion on the wood issue. I could very well agree completely with you, and I can also disagree completely. You have no idea what I think and that is to keep you free from bias.
Last edited:
jumble jumble
New member
Pickups for mahogany Tele???
I love how the different body woods are apparently "night and day" in sound, but suddenly we need the same amount of solder in each guitar because otherwise we might not be able to tell the difference. Suddenly it sounds like you're saying amount of solder in the guitar has more effect on the sound than body wood.
Given that people say they can hear the difference, we don't need any measuring instruments at all. We just need people to not know what wood they're hearing. You can absolutely do a rigorous scientific experiment to tell if people can hear a difference between woods.
A lot of the arguments against Arius are based on the straw man fallacy. Imply that his position is that body wood has no measurable effect of any kind, and then discredit that position. His position is that in a solid body electric guitar it has a negligible perceptible effect compared to other factors like pickup type, neck wood, pot value, etc.
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I love how the different body woods are apparently "night and day" in sound, but suddenly we need the same amount of solder in each guitar because otherwise we might not be able to tell the difference. Suddenly it sounds like you're saying amount of solder in the guitar has more effect on the sound than body wood.
Given that people say they can hear the difference, we don't need any measuring instruments at all. We just need people to not know what wood they're hearing. You can absolutely do a rigorous scientific experiment to tell if people can hear a difference between woods.
A lot of the arguments against Arius are based on the straw man fallacy. Imply that his position is that body wood has no measurable effect of any kind, and then discredit that position. His position is that in a solid body electric guitar it has a negligible perceptible effect compared to other factors like pickup type, neck wood, pot value, etc.
Sent from one of my four iPads
Last edited:
Dahla
New member
Pickups for mahogany Tele???
This seems a little extensive to me. I wouldn't think you need an amp to test the difference between tonewoods. If you are testing the impact of wood, then why add a number of variables that you cannot control? What about body shape?
Why not just use a piece of wood, cut to a square and use a test rig consisting of a bridge, nut and one string and measure the difference in vibration, frequency cut-off, DB-levels and sustain? The only factor that would change would be wood. To add electronics, glue, paint, amp etc. makes no difference in the end, only to show the difference between guitars and not just wood. I believe that the difference in wood is easy to test. To quantify the difference between instruments on the hand, is not.
This seems a little extensive to me. I wouldn't think you need an amp to test the difference between tonewoods. If you are testing the impact of wood, then why add a number of variables that you cannot control? What about body shape?
Why not just use a piece of wood, cut to a square and use a test rig consisting of a bridge, nut and one string and measure the difference in vibration, frequency cut-off, DB-levels and sustain? The only factor that would change would be wood. To add electronics, glue, paint, amp etc. makes no difference in the end, only to show the difference between guitars and not just wood. I believe that the difference in wood is easy to test. To quantify the difference between instruments on the hand, is not.
jumble jumble
New member
Pickups for mahogany Tele???
Even that only tests if there IS a difference. What we,re interested in is whether there's an AUDIBLE difference. Easier to test by far: indeed, if I were to claim to you that I could easily hear the difference between my Strat and my Les Paul, we could rig up a quick blindfold test that would be scientifically valid.
Sent from one of my four iPads
Even that only tests if there IS a difference. What we,re interested in is whether there's an AUDIBLE difference. Easier to test by far: indeed, if I were to claim to you that I could easily hear the difference between my Strat and my Les Paul, we could rig up a quick blindfold test that would be scientifically valid.
Sent from one of my four iPads
