Pickups or Amp?

TRex

New member
I'm currently using an Epiphone Les Paul standard (built Nov 2009 according to serial ##) paired with the Gdec 3 15w amp and a generic cable (will look when I get home). The Epiphone also has CTS pots and orange drop caps already.

My sound on all the channels of the amp seem, well fuzzy. Not quite like fuzz pedal fuzz, but like muddy and unclear fuzzy.

I'm wondering if new pickups/new guitar would help more or a new Amplifier. I have some ideas on what I want on both sides, and plan to upgrade both at some point.

So should I get a new duncan hot rodded humbucker set, or a new Jet city amplifier first?
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

I'm currently using an Epiphone Les Paul standard (built Nov 2009 according to serial ##) paired with the Gdec 3 15w amp and a generic cable (will look when I get home). The Epiphone also has CTS pots and orange drop caps already.

My sound on all the channels of the amp seem, well fuzzy. Not quite like fuzz pedal fuzz, but like muddy and unclear fuzzy.

I'm wondering if new pickups/new guitar would help more or a new Amplifier. I have some ideas on what I want on both sides, and plan to upgrade both at some point.

So should I get a new duncan hot rodded humbucker set, or a new Jet city amplifier first?

Me personally, get the amp first...I've played a Gibson Les Paul through a practice amp and it sounded well like a practice amp sound. lol

The amp can be used with multiple guitars and genres. No set of pickups sounds best in every guitar–if you are planning on upgrading to another guitar then I would say don't bother with the pickups because they won't add value to your Epi and they might not be the best fit for the guitar you upgrade to.

Oh, and get a nice chord ;)
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

You don't need to change both your amp and buy a Gibson. Look for a better amp used or on sale. Epiphone began their PU upgrade program in 2010, so you missed out. Better PU's will make a difference. I would get a set of good Duncan PAF's, like WLH's, Seth's, or A2P's, and would not put a Hot Rodded set in a Les Paul unless I was playing '80's hair metal.
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

As a test, try playing your guitar through the G-DEC amplifier but listen through headphones. The idea is to determine whether the vagueness to the sound is a product of the amplifier circuitry or the cheap cabinet and loudspeaker.
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

Me personally, get the amp first...I've played a Gibson Les Paul through a practice amp and it sounded well like a practice amp sound. lol

The amp can be used with multiple guitars and genres. No set of pickups sounds best in every guitar–if you are planning on upgrading to another guitar then I would say don't bother with the pickups because they won't add value to your Epi and they might not be the best fit for the guitar you upgrade to.

Oh, and get a nice chord ;)

A nice new chord is on my christmas list fo' sure.


You don't need to change both your amp and buy a Gibson. Look for a better amp used or on sale. Epiphone began their PU upgrade program in 2010, so you missed out. Better PU's will make a difference. I would get a set of good Duncan PAF's, like WLH's, Seth's, or A2P's, and would not put a Hot Rodded set in a Les Paul unless I was playing '80's hair metal.

I usually play classic rock, 80's thrash (think Megadeth/Pantera/Metallica), blues, pop punk, and various rock supgenres. I thought the JB/Jazz would give me that flexibility. Heard those can even do blues and such decently.
As a test, try playing your guitar through the G-DEC amplifier but listen through headphones. The idea is to determine whether the vagueness to the sound is a product of the amplifier circuitry or the cheap cabinet and loudspeaker.
I'll do that with my AT-M50 monitor headphones. Maybe I just need a speaker, eh?
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

Change both.

But amp is priority, IMO.

$5000 custom guitar through cheap amp still sounds cheap.
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

Amp and cab first, always. Your sound is like a meal.

Amp - Potatoes
Speaker - Meat
Guitar - Vegetables
Pickups - (Part of the vegetables . . . so like . . . Carrots?)
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

I'm currently using an Epiphone Les Paul standard (built Nov 2009 according to serial ##) paired with the Gdec 3 15w amp and a generic cable (will look when I get home). The Epiphone also has CTS pots and orange drop caps already.

My sound on all the channels of the amp seem, well fuzzy. Not quite like fuzz pedal fuzz, but like muddy and unclear fuzzy.

I'm wondering if new pickups/new guitar would help more or a new Amplifier. I have some ideas on what I want on both sides, and plan to upgrade both at some point.

So should I get a new duncan hot rodded humbucker set, or a new Jet city amplifier first?

I'll buck the trend here a little, and say I think you should upgrade the pickups first, if you like the rest of the guitar. Here's why:

* Amps get very expensive very quickly. The Hot Rodded Humbucker set (which will work well for just about anything short of modern metal) is roughly $125-$150 depending on who you buy from. An amp significantly better than your own in the new market will start around four times that for a Fender Blues Jr or Peavey Classic 30. Your money goes further used, but you're still spending more money on a good amp than a good pickup set, so your money goes further faster getting the pickups first.
* An amp suitable for performance volume levels will never see its full potential in your rehearsal space, because you'll be unable to turn it up to where the amp is being properly exercised to get the tone you are after on stage. Pickups will improve the tone of your axe through almost anything, of any power and circuit design.
* When you go shopping for an amp to improve on that Fender GDEC 3-15, you'll bring your axe to the store(s) so you get the most accurate picture possible of what the amp's going to sound like in your complete rig. If that guitar still has the stock Epi pickups, that's the sound you'll get through the amp, and you know that sound will change when you upgrade the pickups. It makes no sense, especially given the high amp cost and the other variables inherent in amp shopping, to try to hit a moving target by shopping for an amp using a guitar that won't be what you'll end up playing through it.
* Never bet on being able to use your own amp everywhere you go. Bassists know this very well, and many of them don't even bother with more than a good bedroom/practice amp; if they need more power they'll be getting it from the PA running direct. Guitarists tend to get their way more often on amp choice especially if they keep their rigs small (1x12-2x12 combo they can put in front of a mic, plug in and go), but you could still find yourself on a festival stage or battle of the bands where the stage manager just hands you a 1/4" plug for your axe and tells you its his way or the highway, there's no time for 50 bands loading their entire personal stage rigs in and out all day. Spending money on an amp that makes or breaks your rig's sound is therefore at least somewhat risky.
* My personal mentality towards "the complete instrument" is that the part of it that you are in physical contact with while playing is more important overall than what you plug into. That's opposite many guitarists' assessments, but mirrors the attitude about practically every other musical instrument on the planet. The better you feel about what you're personally using to make music, the more that will translate into a better sound and more musicality from any amplification rig you play through.

So, if, and this is apparently a bigger "if" than I first thought, if the guitar is otherwise comfortable and playable for you, and doesn't have any mechanical, fit or finish problems affecting playability, then by all means upgrade the coils. If, however, you plan on replacing the guitar wholesale, any money you put in it now is sunk and the amp wins by default.
 
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Re: Pickups or Amp?

I thought the JB/Jazz would give me that flexibility. Heard those can even do blues and such decently.


As a blues player, I can say JB's don't work for me. They're nowhere near the top of the list for blues players, or even the top half of the list for that genre.
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

Amp first.. I have played several hot rodded Epiphone Les Pauls that sounded very well..
I'd get a decent tube amp and start from there.. Something with a 12" speaker and you'll notice an improvement.
Then if you're still lacking you can change pickups and that will satisfy you until you can upgrade guitars..

I'll tell you first hand. I own a couple of Gibson Les Pauls and the factory pickups are muddy and quite frankly suck.
It does you know good to upgrade to a higher quality guitar when you can change pickups and buy a nice amp and get there..
Anyone who is into tone will tell you its much easier to get a decent guitar sounding well into a good amp than it is to get a great guitar sounding well into a crappy amp..
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

Amp first.. I have played several hot rodded Epiphone Les Pauls that sounded very well..
I'd get a decent tube amp and start from there.. Something with a 12" speaker and you'll notice an improvement.
Then if you're still lacking you can change pickups and that will satisfy you until you can upgrade guitars..

I'll tell you first hand. I own a couple of Gibson Les Pauls and the factory pickups are muddy and quite frankly suck.
It does you know good to upgrade to a higher quality guitar when you can change pickups and buy a nice amp and get there..
Anyone who is into tone will tell you its much easier to get a decent guitar sounding well into a good amp than it is to get a great guitar sounding well into a crappy amp..

Blues Jr. or Hot Rod Deluxe recommendation here ;)

From my experience, one should play a guitar first before changing pickups. You never know for sure exactly how a guitar is going to respond...I just don't see the benefit of buying new pickups when you are already planning on upgrading the guitar. Upgraded pickups tend to add zero value when selling/trading.
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

Being that you are on a pickup sponsored forum, we are all biased towards new pups. Honesty for me, new pups was a journey rarely a destination. I would have to mix and match till I can up with ones that I felt mated to the guitar well. It could take some time to get what you are after so be flexible.

Good advice on listening to your guitar through headphones and amp models. If it sounds good enough, amp first.
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

Blues Jr. or Hot Rod Deluxe recommendation here ;)

From my experience, one should play a guitar first before changing pickups. You never know for sure exactly how a guitar is going to respond...I just don't see the benefit of buying new pickups when you are already planning on upgrading the guitar. Upgraded pickups tend to add zero value when selling/trading.

Those are both awesome choices and you can build a nice pedal based rig from either of them depending on your needs.
I agree with you on the upgrade pickups too.. My thinking was he could put money into an amp and mil the guitar for a while with an electronics upgrade is cheaper than a new guitar that he'll probably buy and not like the pickups anyway.. I know from my tastes and a lot of y'all are just like me. I rarely buy a guitar and am happy with the pickups. I usually buy knowing I am gonna change them.
The exceptions are Suhrs and top shelf PRS and the like.. I have never bought a Les Paul and liked the pickups but my budget is the Studio to Traditional range.
I know that going in and its the first thing to go..
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

Those are both awesome choices and you can build a nice pedal based rig from either of them depending on your needs.
I agree with you on the upgrade pickups too.. My thinking was he could put money into an amp and mil the guitar for a while with an electronics upgrade is cheaper than a new guitar that he'll probably buy and not like the pickups anyway.. I know from my tastes and a lot of y'all are just like me. I rarely buy a guitar and am happy with the pickups. I usually buy knowing I am gonna change them.
The exceptions are Suhrs and top shelf PRS and the like.. I have never bought a Les Paul and liked the pickups but my budget is the Studio to Traditional range.
I know that going in and its the first thing to go..

I had two Gibson Les Paul Studios–loved the Ceramic Set but didn't care for the Burstbuckers personally. I've had pretty good luck with liking the stock pickups, my favorite set of all time came from a Jackson SL3 that was loaded with a JB plus 2 Hot Rails. Also had a MIA Fender that came stock with Fat 50s that I loved (got rid of that like an idiot and got another MIA Strat and replaced the pickups for Fat 50s.) I've had several Charvel Jacksons over the years I liked the stock pickups in but I've also changed quite a bit two...so its probably 50/50 for me :)

I agree about upgrading the electronics in the Epiphone–I would want to if owned one (like MIM Strats.) I was just thinking from a monetary standpoint to worry about the amp first. But hey, he may upgrade the pickups in the Epi and love it thus no longer needing an upgrade (unless he is bothered by the headstock ;) )
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

As has been mentioned, the amp is a much bigger part of your sound than the pickups. Swapping pickups, to me, is the last step in fine tuning your sound. The right pickups can make a huge difference, it's just that in your case, I would go with the amp now.
 
Re: Pickups or Amp?

Change both.

But amp is priority, IMO.

$5000 custom guitar through cheap amp still sounds cheap.
Both are on their way out, question is which goes first.

Amp and cab first, always. Your sound is like a meal.

Amp - Potatoes
Speaker - Meat
Guitar - Vegetables
Pickups - (Part of the vegetables . . . so like . . . Carrots?)

Nice analogy, a vegetarian gets nowhere :D

I'll buck the trend here a little, and say I think you should upgrade the pickups first. Here's why:

* Amps get very expensive very quickly. The Hot Rodded Humbucker set (which will work well for just about anything short of modern metal) is roughly $125-$150 depending on who you buy from. An amp significantly better than your own in the new market will start around four times that for a Fender Blues Jr or Peavey Classic 30. Your money goes further used, but you're still spending more money on a good amp than a good pickup set, so your money goes further faster getting the pickups first.
* An amp suitable for performance volume levels will never see its full potential in your rehearsal space, because you'll be unable to turn it up to where the amp is being properly exercised to get the tone you are after on stage. Pickups will improve the tone of your axe through almost anything, of any power and circuit design.
* When you go shopping for an amp to improve on that Fender GDEC 3-15, you'll bring your axe to the store(s) so you get the most accurate picture possible of what the amp's going to sound like in your complete rig. If that guitar still has the stock Epi pickups, that's the sound you'll get through the amp, and you know that sound will change when you upgrade the pickups. It makes no sense, especially given the high amp cost and the other variables inherent in amp shopping, to try to hit a moving target by shopping for an amp using a guitar that won't be what you'll end up playing through it.
* Never bet on being able to use your own amp everywhere you go. Bassists know this very well, and many of them don't even bother with more than a good bedroom/practice amp; if they need more power they'll be getting it from the PA running direct. Guitarists tend to get their way more often on amp choice especially if they keep their rigs small (1x12-2x12 combo they can put in front of a mic, plug in and go), but you could still find yourself on a festival stage or battle of the bands where the stage manager just hands you a 1/4" plug for your axe and tells you its his way or the highway, there's no time for 50 bands loading their entire personal stage rigs in and out all day. Spending money on an amp that makes or breaks your rig's sound is therefore at least somewhat risky.
* My personal mentality towards "the complete instrument" is that the part of it that you are in physical contact with while playing is more important overall than what you plug into. That's opposite many guitarists' assessments, but mirrors the attitude about practically every other musical instrument on the planet. The better you feel about what you're personally using to make music, the more that will translate into a better sound and more musicality from any amplification rig you play through.

I don't usually gig much outside of small stuff, so usually I get to use my own amp.

As a blues player, I can say JB's don't work for me. They're nowhere near the top of the list for blues players, or even the top half of the list for that genre.
Well i usually use the Neck pup for my blues tone anyway, strat or Lester.

Blues is a secondary at best, I mostly do classic rock and classic metal
Amp first.. I have played several hot rodded Epiphone Les Pauls that sounded very well..
I'd get a decent tube amp and start from there.. Something with a 12" speaker and you'll notice an improvement.
Then if you're still lacking you can change pickups and that will satisfy you until you can upgrade guitars..

I'll tell you first hand. I own a couple of Gibson Les Pauls and the factory pickups are muddy and quite frankly suck.
It does you know good to upgrade to a higher quality guitar when you can change pickups and buy a nice amp and get there..
Anyone who is into tone will tell you its much easier to get a decent guitar sounding well into a good amp than it is to get a great guitar sounding well into a crappy amp..
A used JCA2212 sounds right up that ally.

Blues Jr. or Hot Rod Deluxe recommendation here ;)

From my experience, one should play a guitar first before changing pickups. You never know for sure exactly how a guitar is going to respond...I just don't see the benefit of buying new pickups when you are already planning on upgrading the guitar. Upgraded pickups tend to add zero value when selling/trading.

I have owned the for 7 years now, so I know how she plays. Very resonate and playable.

Being that you are on a pickup sponsored forum, we are all biased towards new pups. Honesty for me, new pups was a journey rarely a destination. I would have to mix and match till I can up with ones that I felt mated to the guitar well. It could take some time to get what you are after so be flexible.

Good advice on listening to your guitar through headphones and amp models. If it sounds good enough, amp first.

I'll do that after I get home, hopefully the mud is gone, but I have my feelings it's going to not help.

Those are both awesome choices and you can build a nice pedal based rig from either of them depending on your needs.
I agree with you on the upgrade pickups too.. My thinking was he could put money into an amp and mil the guitar for a while with an electronics upgrade is cheaper than a new guitar that he'll probably buy and not like the pickups anyway.. I know from my tastes and a lot of y'all are just like me. I rarely buy a guitar and am happy with the pickups. I usually buy knowing I am gonna change them.
The exceptions are Suhrs and top shelf PRS and the like.. I have never bought a Les Paul and liked the pickups but my budget is the Studio to Traditional range.
I know that going in and its the first thing to go..

That is an option too, I can just wait and buy a new guitar later down the road.

I personally haven't played a (new) Gibson I liked under $2500 (meaning I liked it more than my Epi). I might be able to hunt down a used Hamer or a used Gibson Standard.

However, I don't see myself getting rid of the Epiphone. It's great feeling to play, and I would love to be able to use it.

Hmm



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Re: Pickups or Amp?

Take your guitar in and try some amps at a shop.
Will do, hopefully I can find some time tomorrow to hang out with the guys at the guitar shop. ;)
Amp
At least a 30 watt modeling amp

Never heard a gdec i liked
30w sounds like a lot

It's marshall model never sounds right, no matter what. My guitar teacher always complained about his even before I got mine.

As has been mentioned, the amp is a much bigger part of your sound than the pickups. Swapping pickups, to me, is the last step in fine tuning your sound. The right pickups can make a huge difference, it's just that in your case, I would go with the amp now.





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Re: Pickups or Amp?

Take your guitar in and try some amps at a shop.

This. There could be something wrong with the amp, or even your cord. But...

I'm not crazy about a Jet City, but I think you need to start with a good amp.

One of the things I like about my Mesa amps: they seem to sound good, no matter what guitar or pickup I've used. Filtertrons, DeArmonds, EMGs, G&L Z-coils, Teiscos, P-90s, JBs, 496R/500T, 490R/498T and 37 other kinds of PAF-style pickups have all sounded great with these amps.

Some amps can really favor HBs, some singles. Some are forgiving, and some will let you know very quickly that they are not a good match.

Bill
 
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