Pickups way too unbalanced!

[waltschwarzkopf]

Hi guys,

A couple of weeks ago I bought an Epi Les Paul to have at home as a backup. I decided to remove the covers of the humbuckers to change it aesthetically and also improve the sound; I had also done that on the bridge pickup of another Epi and it did seem to improve.

So I took her to the workshop, removed the covers, removed the huge block of wax on top of the coils and around the pickup and reinstalled them and adjusted the height and screws on the bobbins. I noticed that the pickups were 57CH(G) on the neck and HOTCH(G) on the bridge, I thought these guitars (LP Standard) came with 57 classics (Epi version, of course). And when I took her back home I notice that the pickups were unbalanced, way unbalanced.

I re-checked the string height, each of the pickup’s height and also the screws on the bobbins and the problem persisted. The only solution I found was lowering the bridge volume to 5 and leaving all other 3 knobs on 10, and only then they would be balanced. Otherwise, the neck is low and clean and the bridge is LOUD and distorted. I looked around on the web and found that these pickups are ~8kOhm (57CH) and ~14kOhm (HOTCH), which is a bigger difference than my other Epi, which had 57s and the DCR was quite close among them; I don’t have it anymore, so I cannot use it for comparison. I’ve read that these are the Epi version of the 490R/498T combo, and some claim that the Gibson’s are also very unbalanced.

Sadly, I did not play the guitar right before taking it to the shop, so I don’t know for sure if the difference was already there or no. I did the job slowly and very carefully, so I’m sure that I did not damage anything.

What do you think? Do any of you have any experience with these Waxbuckers? Is this difference normal?

Cheers,
Walter

P.S. If you live in Zürich and want to get together and jam, send me a PM.

 

[gregory]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

You could try to put an A2 in the bridge, otherwise youll have to replace one of the pickups.

For a hotter neck pickup:
Nagisa recently put a DiMarzio Titan neck in his Les Paul and was initially quite happy, though he isn't a fan of ceramic so he put an A5 in there and was happier still. I would recommend a DiMarzio PAF Pro.

If the choice is to replace the bridge with something weaker I'd go for a Duncan 59, Whole Lotta Humbucker, or a 59/Custom Hybrid.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

A common issue with Epiphones is the pickup switch. I've never had any issues with the set you are describing, so I'd check there. Are you able to check the voltage at the output jack?

 

[Discharged]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

I’m sure that I did not damage anything.

Don't be so sure, Walter. The wiring and components of that guitar are unfortunately the worst you'll ever find in any asian guitar.

In this case, the most probable culprit is the toggle switch. And that colored, fragile wire used to connect the various components, including the p'ups themselves, not only has 10x more capacitance than vintage braided wire, also is known to fail with no apparent reason, most probably the result of cold solder joints.

You might keep the pots, if their actual measuring don't fall farther away of 5% of the 500K mark, but the rest must simply go.

I have for sale some good p'ups you could use and I might also custom-make you a new harness with good components and braided wiring; PM if you're interested. I'm in Europe, so no payment for customs or VAT applies if you decide to buy what i have to offer.

Let me know.

Yours very truly,

/Peter

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

Typically that combo is like a Custom/jazz......and that is well known to be a set that balances. The only thing unbalanced about the 490/498 set you referenced is the eq - given your complaint is the volume this is not relevant.

So I would second there being something wrong with either component or wiring.

 

[gregory]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

If the output of the Jazz Neck balances well with that of the Custom 5, what's the purpose of the Jazz Bridge?

On the same token, with more or less the same relative difference as the Jazz Bridge and Jazz Neck, why are the 59B and 59N sold as a set?

Are the Pearly Gates Bridge and Pearly Gates Neck also not a good balance?

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

Maybe you have not heard of pickup height adjust screws.......a great tool for the newb to learn about.

 

[gregory]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

So then you have to compensate for the lack of balance between the Custom 5 and the Jazz Neck by either raising the Jazz Neck or dropping the Custom 5. Glad we have that sorted.

Either way, I highly doubt there is a problem with the wiring or a component.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

Like every pickup in history........glad you're learning.

 

[gregory]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

In addition to output the tonality also changes with level.

Are you always this condescending?

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

Yeah Greg, I'd say technically the 59, PG, Jazz, Seth, Ant etc. sets don't balance output wise because you have to set the bridge next to the strings and the neck farther down for them to be the same volume. This can not be a bad thing because it thins out the neck tone and adds to the PAF sound. Me personally, I prefer a really full bridge tone since I always play clean. And I like the pickups to sit at the same height. So I've found outputs like the JB and C5 to achieve this with the vintage output neck humbuckers.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

I actually prefer unbalanced neck and bridge sets. It makes it easier to notice when I accidentally flick the pickup selector out of the bridge position.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

^ I set my bridge tone slighty louder since it's thinner.

 

[gregory]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

I can't argue with that since you've addressed both methods.

The OP made it clear what he's used to (vintage bridge, vintage neck) which is different than what he currently has (hot bridge, vintage neck). With this in mind I wouldn't jump straight to the conclusion that something is wrong with a component or wiring.

I may be mistaken in the way I'm interpreting the initial post, but I don't think so.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for your suggestions, I figured it'd be best to make a single reply.

You could try to put an A2 in the bridge, otherwise, you'll have to replace one of the pickups.

I'd like to avoid spending money on this guitar, I bought it as a backup and since I'm not very satisfied with it, I'll probably sell it at some point.

A common issue with Epiphones is the pickup switch. I've never had any issues with the set you are describing, so I'd check there. Are you able to check the voltage at the output jack?

How can I check the switch? Do you mean checking if it's continuous on all three positions? I have a mono-plug wired to a multimeter that I use to measure resistance and continuity. How can I check the output voltage as well?

Don't be so sure, Walter. The wiring and components of that guitar are unfortunately the worst you'll ever find in any Asian guitar.

In this case, the most probable culprit is the toggle switch. And that colored, fragile wire used to connect the various components, including the p'ups themselves, not only has 10x more capacitance than vintage braided wire, also is known to fail with no apparent reason, most probably the result of cold solder joints.

Thanks a lot for the explanation and for the offer. I'll have a look at the wiring myself and see if I can find something wrong, then I could try to rewire it. I enjoy doing it and have also done it to the LPs, so if it's only the wiring, I should be able to solve it.

Either way, I highly doubt there is a problem with the wiring or a component.

Then what do you think the problem is?



Ok guy, so the next steps are to remove the wiring and check the resistance of each of the pots and pickups, and continuity in the switch and jack, there may be a grounding issue that is making the pickup lose its signal at some point. I doubt that the neck pickup was damaged when I removed the cover and the wax, and since most of you say that the problem is the switch or the wiring, I hope that is the case. Because the wax and cover do affect the sound, but it shouldn't be so dramatic, right?

If everything else measures what it should, then I will rewire it again using new cables and throw the old ones away. But if the problem persists, then I'll just have to live with it or put a resistor in series with the bridge pickup to simulate that the volume begins at 5... Will this work? (btw, this is the worst case scenario and I'll try to avoid it by all means)

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

How can I check the switch? Do you mean checking if it's continuous on all three positions? I have a mono-plug wired to a multimeter that I use to measure resistance and continuity. How can I check the output voltage as well?

The reason for checking the voltage at the output jack is so that you can see if the numbers you are getting are in the general ballpark of where they should be, so that we can see if the issue is a defective part or wiring issue. All you should need to do is switch the multimeter to mV and measure the results in all three positions.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

The reason for checking the voltage at the output jack is so that you can see if the numbers you are getting are in the general ballpark of where they should be, so that we can see if the issue is a defective part or wiring issue. All you should need to do is switch the multimeter to mV and measure the results in all three positions.

Thanks for the explanation! I'll give it a try tomorrow and let you know what I find.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

Do Schweizer always overthink stuff? Just raise/ lower any one those two until you achieve the balance you desire. You know I encounter the same issue with my LP with JB/ 59. The neck sounds louder than the bridge with the height being the same, but only when played clean. With distortion they sound balance.

I wonder if those pickups are country specific...CH?

 

[Discharged]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

I wonder if those pickups are country specific...CH?

It means C=Covered H=Humbucking. Overthinking, uh...?

/Peter

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Pickups way too unbalanced!

It means C=Covered H=Humbucking. Overthinking, uh...?

/Peter

Great, thanks. So that's all you get from 15 years moonlighting fixing people's guitars? (that's sarcasm in case you don't get it).