Pickups with mismatched coils?
- Thread starter Fusion1
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Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Pickups with mismatched coils?
Do a search for posts by BachtoRock. He had a huge thread somewhere, where he was doing humbucker "hybrids" - that is, taking the north coil of one humbucker, and matching it to the south coil of another. Seems like he was getting some pretty cool tones. A lot of members followed suite.
Do a search for posts by BachtoRock. He had a huge thread somewhere, where he was doing humbucker "hybrids" - that is, taking the north coil of one humbucker, and matching it to the south coil of another. Seems like he was getting some pretty cool tones. A lot of members followed suite.
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: Pickups with mismatched coils?
I use 2 Hybrids made by myself...The idea is to take a Custom slug bobbin and mate it with either the PGB screw bobbin or the 59B screw bobbin....You end up with a pickup with balls,nice highs,great articulation of notes,and a very decent sounding split 7k custom coil tone...Even with the A2 used in the Hybrid,the pickup remains clear and articulate...The mids are great and aren't at all pronounced like with the CC....Basically the Hybrid is the best of the 59B and the Custom in character...It takes advantage of the lower dc resistance output of the PG or the 59 in the 8k ranges and mates it with the stronger overall tonality of the custom bobbin..It's not for everyone,but it's worth trying...I currently have one in my recent blue strat build and in my Tokai Love Rock..
John
I use 2 Hybrids made by myself...The idea is to take a Custom slug bobbin and mate it with either the PGB screw bobbin or the 59B screw bobbin....You end up with a pickup with balls,nice highs,great articulation of notes,and a very decent sounding split 7k custom coil tone...Even with the A2 used in the Hybrid,the pickup remains clear and articulate...The mids are great and aren't at all pronounced like with the CC....Basically the Hybrid is the best of the 59B and the Custom in character...It takes advantage of the lower dc resistance output of the PG or the 59 in the 8k ranges and mates it with the stronger overall tonality of the custom bobbin..It's not for everyone,but it's worth trying...I currently have one in my recent blue strat build and in my Tokai Love Rock..
John
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: Pickups with mismatched coils?
Once Bachtorock sees this thread he will...He likes to read about guys using his Hybrid pickup mods... :dance:
ArtieToo said:You know . . . I think you're right.
Maybe, with enough interest, he'll revive it.
Once Bachtorock sees this thread he will...He likes to read about guys using his Hybrid pickup mods... :dance:
jmutations
New member
Re: Pickups with mismatched coils?
Hey guys-I came up with this hybrid idea independently, and now two of my best guitars have hybrid sets--basically a high-output and a low-output pup spliced together. I use the high-output base (with its stronger magnet) on the bridge position and usually get a good balanced output, as well as more lows in the neck and more highs in the bridge (which I know is opposite of what most guys want but works great for me.) I've also had great success swapping pole pieces and adding chrome covers to vary the tone quality. And the best part, with my switching options, I now have 4 different single-coil sounds from the same guitar. Anybody who hasn't tried this yet should. It's easier than it sounds and a little common sense and experimentation will get you exactly the tone you're looking for.
Hey guys-I came up with this hybrid idea independently, and now two of my best guitars have hybrid sets--basically a high-output and a low-output pup spliced together. I use the high-output base (with its stronger magnet) on the bridge position and usually get a good balanced output, as well as more lows in the neck and more highs in the bridge (which I know is opposite of what most guys want but works great for me.) I've also had great success swapping pole pieces and adding chrome covers to vary the tone quality. And the best part, with my switching options, I now have 4 different single-coil sounds from the same guitar. Anybody who hasn't tried this yet should. It's easier than it sounds and a little common sense and experimentation will get you exactly the tone you're looking for.
MattPete
New member
Re: Pickups with mismatched coils?
I messed with the cutom/59 hybrid, and it just wasn't for me. Despite BachtoRock (?), the hybrid doesn't sound like the pickup EVH was using. When I compare it to my early VH cds, the midrange peak is too high. On the other hand, the CC or an A2 59 seems to have the midrange peak in just the right place.
Anyway, as an experiment, I made a Blues/59 hybrid that uses an A2. I botched one of the Blues coils, so I'm using the 59 screw coil on the bridge side (as opposed to using the 59 slug coil). So far, I like it a lot, and it will probably be the next pickup I put in my next guitar (the other candidates are a 59, an a2-59, or a Blues Saraceno).
Oh, and the parallel poles mixed with the stud coils looks kinda cool.
I messed with the cutom/59 hybrid, and it just wasn't for me. Despite BachtoRock (?), the hybrid doesn't sound like the pickup EVH was using. When I compare it to my early VH cds, the midrange peak is too high. On the other hand, the CC or an A2 59 seems to have the midrange peak in just the right place.
Anyway, as an experiment, I made a Blues/59 hybrid that uses an A2. I botched one of the Blues coils, so I'm using the 59 screw coil on the bridge side (as opposed to using the 59 slug coil). So far, I like it a lot, and it will probably be the next pickup I put in my next guitar (the other candidates are a 59, an a2-59, or a Blues Saraceno).
Oh, and the parallel poles mixed with the stud coils looks kinda cool.
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Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Pickups with mismatched coils?
I use two humbuckers made out of a 59n and a Demon.
The Demon screwcoil and the slugcoil from the 59 measures about 9k, sounds terrific, use that one in my Kramer, the other is the allenwrench coil with the creme screwcoil from the 59, that one lives in my Wolfgang, measures about 8.7k.
Both uses A5 magnets, would love to get a few A2 magnets for those.
I use two humbuckers made out of a 59n and a Demon.
The Demon screwcoil and the slugcoil from the 59 measures about 9k, sounds terrific, use that one in my Kramer, the other is the allenwrench coil with the creme screwcoil from the 59, that one lives in my Wolfgang, measures about 8.7k.
Both uses A5 magnets, would love to get a few A2 magnets for those.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Pickups with mismatched coils?
I measured one last year and they were very mismatched.
I measured one day before yesterday and both coils were identical...and not wound to specs. This neck PGn measured 4K for each coil and had a total resistance in series of 8K.
That don't make no sense a'tall.... :smack:
Lew
LH_ said:
I measured one last year and they were very mismatched.
I measured one day before yesterday and both coils were identical...and not wound to specs. This neck PGn measured 4K for each coil and had a total resistance in series of 8K.
That don't make no sense a'tall.... :smack:
Lew
mongrollo
New member
Re: Pickups with mismatched coils?
I don't think so. I have a P90 vintage set, one pickup it is RW/RP and when both are on they are humcancelling like a humucker. One it is 8k and the other it is 9.5K. and there isn't any hum when both are on.
I think the micmached coils thing it is more to get a diferent frecuency response from each coil so the frecuency cancelling issue doesn't gets as important.
sanrafael said:
I don't think so. I have a P90 vintage set, one pickup it is RW/RP and when both are on they are humcancelling like a humucker. One it is 8k and the other it is 9.5K. and there isn't any hum when both are on.
I think the micmached coils thing it is more to get a diferent frecuency response from each coil so the frecuency cancelling issue doesn't gets as important.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Pickups with mismatched coils?
Actually, you DO decrease the pickup's ability to cancel hum...so it will hum a little more with mismatched coils. It'll also be a little brighter and the highs will be extended a little. One coil will dominate the other and that dominating coil will give the pickup a very slight "single coil" edge to the tone.
This is because when the two out of phase coils are perfectly balanced they will cancel out any signal that they both pickup exactly the same way. Since the two coils are about 1" apart, they don't pick up all frequencies the same...but there's still alot of cancellation of upper harmonics with balanced humbuckers.
It's one reason why humbuckers are not as bright and open voiced as single coils...
Actually, you DO decrease the pickup's ability to cancel hum...so it will hum a little more with mismatched coils. It'll also be a little brighter and the highs will be extended a little. One coil will dominate the other and that dominating coil will give the pickup a very slight "single coil" edge to the tone.
This is because when the two out of phase coils are perfectly balanced they will cancel out any signal that they both pickup exactly the same way. Since the two coils are about 1" apart, they don't pick up all frequencies the same...but there's still alot of cancellation of upper harmonics with balanced humbuckers.
It's one reason why humbuckers are not as bright and open voiced as single coils...
Re: Pickups with mismatched coils?
Hello Hello-
On a Gibson-style humbucker [2 bobbins side-to-side] the coils should be matched for max. humbucking effect. If one bobbin is 5K and the other is 5K the pickup will be as quiet as it can get, but if one coil is 5.5K and the other is 4.5K the noise will increase.
People started hearing differences in old humbuckers [PAF] and found that some of the "character" of the pickup was due to a slight mismatch in the D.C. res of the coils. [maybe one coil would be 4.3K and the other was closer to 5K....] This slight mismatch adds a little bet more "presence" or bight to the high end of the pickup. [it also makes them a little less "humbucking, though..]
Brian.
Hello Hello-
On a Gibson-style humbucker [2 bobbins side-to-side] the coils should be matched for max. humbucking effect. If one bobbin is 5K and the other is 5K the pickup will be as quiet as it can get, but if one coil is 5.5K and the other is 4.5K the noise will increase.
People started hearing differences in old humbuckers [PAF] and found that some of the "character" of the pickup was due to a slight mismatch in the D.C. res of the coils. [maybe one coil would be 4.3K and the other was closer to 5K....] This slight mismatch adds a little bet more "presence" or bight to the high end of the pickup. [it also makes them a little less "humbucking, though..]
Brian.
Re: Pickups with mismatched coils?
Since both the magnets and the coils are out of phase, they both would respond to the same vibrating string in the same way. Thus if they could be in the same place, they would see the same signal, but as you say, the spacing causes differences. The fundamental and lower harmonics are long, and so the distance between the two coils matters little. The higher harmonics are short and are picked up with different phases and tend to cancel. This gives the less bright or harsh sound when compared to single coil pickups.
It seems to me that mismatching the coils is going to give you a real unpleasant surprise if you play with a lot of gain near a big power transformer. There are other ways to unbalance the signal while leaving the hum cancelation alone. The hum cancelation does not depend on the magnets, only on the cores and coils. For example, instead of using the single magnet used by most humbuckers, you can redesign the pickup to use a small magnet on the back of each core; then you can use different strength magnets on the cores for each coil. Or none at all on one coil for single coil sound.
Lewguitar said:
Since both the magnets and the coils are out of phase, they both would respond to the same vibrating string in the same way. Thus if they could be in the same place, they would see the same signal, but as you say, the spacing causes differences. The fundamental and lower harmonics are long, and so the distance between the two coils matters little. The higher harmonics are short and are picked up with different phases and tend to cancel. This gives the less bright or harsh sound when compared to single coil pickups.
It seems to me that mismatching the coils is going to give you a real unpleasant surprise if you play with a lot of gain near a big power transformer. There are other ways to unbalance the signal while leaving the hum cancelation alone. The hum cancelation does not depend on the magnets, only on the cores and coils. For example, instead of using the single magnet used by most humbuckers, you can redesign the pickup to use a small magnet on the back of each core; then you can use different strength magnets on the cores for each coil. Or none at all on one coil for single coil sound.
