Please educate me on SS amps

Personally, I would think a solid state amp with a channel based on a DS-1 or a Rat would be very undewhelming and very stereotypical solid-state fizzy, stiff, and/or fuzzy.

If I were to design a solid state amp around a pedal design, I think it would be a better idea to base it around the more moder standalone distortion pedals like maybe a Revv G3, Friedman BE-OD, AMT Legend, or the likes.

That's pretty much what the Stonehead is. I think it's built around their Fender Legend pedal for clean & crunch & their 5150 Pedal for the two lead channels. It's probably the most versatile amp I own. You can do Loomis/Petrucci kinda led tones & all the heavy rhythm tones you want & yet it will do this (that you might expect to hear come out of a Supro or Blues Junior or somethng) but instead you have the brutal half stack of doom:lmao:

 
Ok, so have we circled back to “there are very few pure SS amps that make convincing pop blues rock and jazz tones?“

​​​​​​I have a number of students confused about solid state. I take them to guitar center or Sam Ash and almost always point them to tubes or modeling. Up to this point, I haven't been able to make any positive solid state recommendations but they definitely ask a lot and I don't want to be the old guy who's out of touch :-)

Try the Blackstar Silverline series.
I tried the deluxe head version, it did pop, rock, jazz, heavy, country well.
For whatever it means,its endorsed by Phil Collen of Def Leppard. They do pop well.
Solid state amps are very good now a times.
 
Ok the first solid state amps of the 70s were clean almost sterile monsters thin the Jazz Chorus
they added the chorus to make it a bit more palatable

Then Peavey used Transtube design to mimic the characteristic sag of the tube amp in his ss offerings
and it did do the sag and bloom of a tube amp

Many manufacturers in the 80s and 90s used similar engineering to get the same results from ss amps

In the mid 90s the modeling amps Line6 and Yamaha and Johnson got popuar and better
They offered a ton of options or flavors of amps in a single box
Try a Marshall or Fender or Mesa before plunking down cash on the real one

That is my version of the history of SS amps
 
Ok the first solid state amps of the 70s were clean almost sterile monsters thin the Jazz Chorus
they added the chorus to make it a bit more palatable

Then Peavey used Transtube design to mimic the characteristic sag of the tube amp in his ss offerings
and it did do the sag and bloom of a tube amp

Many manufacturers in the 80s and 90s used similar engineering to get the same results from ss amps

In the mid 90s the modeling amps Line6 and Yamaha and Johnson got popuar and better
They offered a ton of options or flavors of amps in a single box
Try a Marshall or Fender or Mesa before plunking down cash on the real one

That is my version of the history of SS amps
The huge amount of clean headroom to allow for extra bass and the extremely fast attack and tight response makes hi-gain analog solid state done well very attractive for extreme metal. The Ampeg VH140 is a classic death metal amp, there’s a glut of amazing Randalls from the 90s to 2000s built from the ground up to sound good. Cyclone, RH200G2 etc.

While there are certainly tube amps with the same traits that lend well for that style, the trend of using an overdrive to “tighten up” the front end is to try and get closer to that sound. The RG100 isn’t actually that gainy which is why Dime pushed his with so much outboard gear. My secret sauce amp is a rare SS amp from the 90s. After years of research, there’s only a few in the world. It’s not even super picky about speakers so long as they’re not cheap garbage.

Conventional wisdom was that it was based on those early Randalls. However, it has a lot more gain on tap with extra, switchable overdrive, an active mid control and to my ear sounds somewhere between the Randall and a 5150. It doesn’t need much more than a simple overdrive to cover the demands of today’s heavy tones and has such a distinct, crushingly heavy tone that I tracked an entire album with it.
 
Ok the first solid state amps of the 70s were clean almost sterile monsters thin the Jazz Chorus
they added the chorus to make it a bit more palatable

Then Peavey used Transtube design to mimic the characteristic sag of the tube amp in his ss offerings
and it did do the sag and bloom of a tube amp

Many manufacturers in the 80s and 90s used similar engineering to get the same results from ss amps

In the mid 90s the modeling amps Line6 and Yamaha and Johnson got popuar and better
They offered a ton of options or flavors of amps in a single box
Try a Marshall or Fender or Mesa before plunking down cash on the real one

That is my version of the history of SS amps

Good info, but aren't these examples modeling? Not pure SS?

I'm not clear on the Trans tube... Is the front end digital, or is it analog?

And that may have led me to the "ah ha" moment... A true SS is all analog, right?
 
Peavey Bandit is good "pure" SS amp, the new Orange SS amps sound great. TyTabor recorded the first few King's X albums with and old Gibson Lab Series "pure" SS amp, can't say those sound bad.

But to answer one of your questions, at least as I kinda understand, you aren't going to get as many sounds as from a modeler with anything except another modeler.
 
Sunn Beta Lead is another great SS amp. Jon Butcher recorded a lot of his early stuff with that amp.


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Thanks so much guys, I feel like I know so much more!

I think the biggest issue is what is true SS?

And Devastone, I absolutely am a lab series freak.. it was my main clean amp when I was a kid. I used a pedal to fade between it and my crunchy tube amp of the moment..

The lab series clean tones were unbelievable.. crunch tones were useless, but I was getting those sounds from tubes..

The really cool thing was the in-between sounds... With the chorus on the lab series, you went from Crystal clean chirus to more and more and more and more crunch until the tubes took over... Best of all worlds!
 
Yeah, I wouldn't classify Line 6 or Johson as "solid state".

And yeah, the Peavey Transtube stuff is brilliant. The Bandits are sleeper amps, IMO. But the "real" sleepers from that series are the heads. The Bandits suffer from the same downfalls as cheap solid states built to a budget: cheap MDF cabinetry and cheapie speakers.

I've read the old Scorpion speakers were actually good, though. Supposedly. But even so, they were no Mesa, ENGL, Bogner, or pick your expensive brand name cabs.
 
My knowledge and experience is this (I may have a couple technical details incorrect on the modeling front, feel free to correct me, but this is my current understanding and experience):

Tube
Because of how tubes work, they have a natural compression as you reach the limit of their operating characteristics. This happens even when still clean and just approaching the grit and distortion levels. As a result, they have a touch sensitivity that makes it so that, when gain set to the near edge of break up, you can go from sparkle clean to afterburner of a jet distortion by simply laying into the strings slightly with your hand. You don't have a need for different channels when you can get that range out of the single channel signal without even touching a knob.

Solid State (analog)
Clean and clear with headroom. The earliest solid state amps will distort, but makes an ugly raspy kind of distortion when you hit the operating limits of mounted circuits, ICs and transistors etc. Solid state amp companies have done a lot of work over the years to work around this by emulating compression and internal equalization that emulates tube response. They also have resorted to making separate channels for clean, overdrive and distortion to more fully emulate the range of tube amps, but requiring physically selecting separate channels for those sounds. But they can sound very good and work for many applications.

Emulations / simulation / modeling / convolution (including Solid State amplification of digital processing)
One of the first devices I would consider an emulation/simulation was the Scholz Rockman, which was a solid state circuit designed and patented to emulate a Marshall stack as recorded in a studio. It used diodes to simulate tube distortion with compression to simulate the touch-sensitivity of a tube amp and studio compression in mixing, and it had the earliest circuit-based speaker emulation built into the circuit, though being a headphone amp, it would require a clean solid state power amp to use it like a regular guitar amp.

The SansAmp PSA-1 was a pretty successful emulation of various amps using circuit board technology. IME my PSA-1 requires an outboard compressor to give it the touch sensitivity of a tube amp, but the sound itself can be made to be pretty dead on, if you A/B it next to the real amps and know which knobs to twist. Same thing here, it requires a clean power amp to use it like a regular guitar amp.

Modeling takes different forms and varies in success.
  • Line6 had a Vetta/Flextone series of amps that had really good emulations/models of amps - I believe they were among the earliest to use software emulation? with a solid state power amp. The models were excellent, however they did sound like a recording of a good amp, rather than like standing in front of a good amp.
  • There are also methods of software emulation. One is modeling all the components of the system and building the circuit virtually, another is profiling a device, something akin to but more complex than convolution, and running the incoming sound through the profile to color and shape the sound to match what it would sound like coming out of the actual amp. The best example I've ever played was a Kemper. It sounded and felt like using the real amp. Any clean linear solid state amp will do into a full-range speaker cabinet as all the tone is in the Kemper profile.
When Solid State is the power amplification for a digital model or emulation, the fact that it's solid state is irrelevant. It's the best choice because it's clean and linear and will reproduce the model perfectly without coloring the sound or compromising the sound. Also is better using a full-range speaker cabinet, as the modeler takes care of making it sound like a real amp.

These days, with things like the BOSS Katana, VOX Valvestate, Fender Mustang amps, there are great options for digitial/software amp models that are very good and have a clean solid state amp built-in. The days of raspy solid state distortion are gone, unless you really want to use that sound. Line6 also had an amp for a while (Spider Valve) that had it's modeling up front and a Bogner-designed power amp section to really play and feel and sound like a great amp.

As far as "pop blues rock jazz country", the 'four?' types of music, I've played all of those with all of the above. The decision of which gets down to:
  • Am I recording? - tube amp
  • Am I playing at home and can crank it to my satisfaction? - tube amp
  • Am I playing at home and have to be careful of neighbors? - software emulation through solid state turned down, Katana, Mustang, SansAmp, or Rockman
  • Am I gigging?
    • Playing a small place, have to use stage sound? - Katana, Valvestate, Mustang, etc.
    • Playing a small-medium size place, running quiet stage? - SansAmp (which is also a DI) to the board; or even pedal emulation > D.I.
    • Playing a large place, can use stage backline? - Marshal, Orange, Fender behind me
As far as amp type (whether model or real), the decision for me is:
  • Pop - VOX
  • Blues - Fender Tweed or Blackface
  • Rock - Marshall, Hiwatt, Orange
  • Jazz - Roland JC, Fender Blackface
  • Country - Fender Silverface
 
Beau, fantastic history... Much thanks!

And it sounds like our personal tones might be similar... My extra light rig is a tube preamp into a corus/reverb pedal with an XLR out into anything..

My next lightest rig is either a mustang or a Boss GT-10.

My middle of the road rig is a Peavey classic 50 410

And my recording rig is a Music Man HD130 for cleans with a fade pedal into my Spawn Steetrod for super crunch.

So use what you need to get the job done, eh?
 
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Listened to a couple of Randall videos.. I totally get the idea what they would be useful for metal. Very fast response. And some of the best pinched notes I've ever heard..
 
Just to add to the discussion, there is a lot of romanticization over what tubes amps do to the signal. People speak of tube "warmth" or "dynamics".

Beau went through the compressed nature of tubes.

Also, FWIW, the whole EQ curve of the average tube poweramp is a midscoop compared to a flatter solid state components. Tube poweramps have an impedance-frequency graph with a HUGE boost in the low-end, and a HUGE boost in the upper presence-y regions.
 
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Also, FWIW, the whole EQ curve of the average tube poweramp is a midscoop compared to a flatter solid state components. Tube poweramps have an impedance-frequency graph with a HUGE boost in the low-end, and a HUGE boost in the upper presence-y regions.

this is not concerning the tubes or the transistors, it depends on the topology of the tone control, if you make some simulation with TSC online (you can google it) you will see the famous mid scooped eq in the tone stack itself, no matter what kind of active device you have before or after the stack
 
this is not concerning the tubes or the transistors, it depends on the topology of the tone control, if you make some simulation with TSC online (you can google it) you will see the famous mid scooped eq in the tone stack itself, no matter what kind of active device you have before or after the stack

Has anyone here tried a tone stack bypass? The curve looks positively insane on the graph. As far from scooped as you can get.
 
Has anyone here tried a tone stack bypass? The curve looks positively insane on the graph. As far from scooped as you can get.

me, I didn't like it on jcm800 and a Princeton, a little better on some SS amp, like a Fender Eighty five I have, it sounds like putting the guitar on a mixer board without the chainsaw buzzing highs of the distortion, but it's gennerally very 'dull' and boring
 
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