Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

[SepultuRick]

Hi, as the title says i have never owned or even played a guitar that didn't have fret buzz (unless it had insane high action and was almost unplayable).

First question, does a brilliantly setup guitar with nice low action and playability but with no fret buzz at all exist?

second and most important to me right now is this: I have an ibanez sz320. I am currently in the process of trying to set it up.

The action was very high and there was a pretty decent sized bow in the neck when i got it. First thing i did was lowered the action to something sensible but i straight away got massive fret buzz. ok i thought so i started adjusting the truss rod.

I straightened it out quite a bit, understanding that some guitars require a slight bow and probably more so with my style of music which is metal. so i am straightening the truss rod bit by bit and i get to a point where i have to highten the bridge/action as the buzz is still there even with a straighter neck.

I feel as though the only way to get a buzzless fretboard is with high action. This is the same situation i find myself in with every guitar i have ever owned. also as i am straightening the neck and hightening the action the feel of the strings starts to get tighter which i do not want at all!!!

what am i doing wrong? i have taken various guitars to local techs who have supposedly set them up but i get them home only to realise the fret buzz is still there and as usual the strings seem to have gotten tighter.

I am really downheartened over the whole thing and have even thought about quitting guitar. I am not a heavy picker by the way, i use really light picks aswell.

please help

 

[darnright]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

I have found it is almost impossible to get rid of ALL buzz and still have a comfortable playing guitar. You can eliminate it on electrics to a point that you don't hear it amplified. It's kind of a give and take thing, get it where it feels the best with the least amount of buzz. IMO

-dave

 

[gilles27]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

i play an Ibanez SZ320 too and i found that the main thing that reduced the amount of fret buzz was having a new nut cut and then having a setup done afterwards to the new nut height. I don't get any fret buzz with a week old set of strings now. Oddly, i do find that as the stings get older, i get buzz on the thin strings above the 14th fret but still none on the early frets. i don't have a particularly low action but it's pretty playable, lower than most shop floor guitars for example

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

2 words. Truss Rod.

 

[SepultuRick]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

2 words. Truss Rod.

Yeah very helpful thanks. I have tried adjusting the truss rod many times

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

Yup, truss rod....

If you go for really low action, a very small amount of fret buzz always comes along for the ride. Your definition of low/high action is probably not similar to most other players' definition of those terms.

If you get your guitar back after a setup and it "feels tighter", it simply means your truss was properly adjusted (straightened with just a small amount of relief)...

I have gotten $100 beginners' electric to play as well as many of my more expensive and nice guitars.

FYI: The least amount of fret buzz I have ever heard from any guitar is a Parker Fly

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

Yeah very helpful thanks. I have tried adjusting the truss rod many times

here's a little trick a friend from these forums told me.

Fret the guitar at the first fret and the last fret (22nd-24th) The string should clear the 12th (the metal of it, not where you fret) fret by the thickness of a baseball card. If the gap is too big, tighten the truss rod. The the baseball card doesn't slip through at all, loosen it. Remember... 1/4 turns and it won't take effect until you leave it overnight. Some people bend the neck a little to reduce the wait but I advise against it seeing I use set-neck and neck-thru guitars and if you don't know your own strength.... Well you know what happens.

 

[CJRocker]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

I have never played a Buzzless AND good playing guitar. I never have and never will and you won't either. As it has been said, you will never be able to get rid of it.

Ideally, you'll need to reach a compromise somewhere:

Buzzy, but plays like butter
Minor buzz that amplification drowns out, but a little tougher higher playability
Best of both worlds; low action and a little bit of buzz

You're only going to get the best of both worlds on higher end guitars. In general, the buzz doesn't bother me too much as long as it doesn't hurt the sound of the notes or comes through the amp. To some degree, your picking technique also has an affect on it. Faster, harder picking = much more buzz no matter the action.

EDIT: Beers, I'll have to try that. I've heard you can also do that trick with a pick of medium gauge size. I have a metric ruler, but it doesn't go long enough to cover the gap between fretwires, which makes me hesitant to adjust the truss. I did do it though on my S540 I sold to wildstar, which I don't think came out horrible, but probably could of been tweaked a bit more.

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

here's a little trick a friend from these forums told me.

Fret the guitar at the first fret and the last fret (22nd-24th) The string should clear the 12th (the metal of it, not where you fret) fret by the thickness of a baseball card. If the gap is too big, tighten the truss rod. The the baseball card doesn't slip through at all, loosen it. Remember... 1/4 turns and it won't take effect until you leave it overnight. Some people bend the neck a little to reduce the wait but I advise against it seeing I use set-neck and neck-thru guitars and if you don't know your own strength.... Well you know what happens.

...close, you usually check clearance at the 9th fret, the neck will respond rather quickly (80%) and settle in after a day (the other 20%). Just some light pressure over a knee on the neck will work just fine - no Kung Fu, just some pressure.

I highly suspect the OP's has his action too low and has not properly addressed the task and technique of man handling that guitar when playing

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

it should also be noted that when you want your notes to sustain when you vibrato them, pinch harmonics on demand and bends among other things, you don't really want your action to be super low.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

There was another thread on this recently. I'll say it again: You have overly optimistic expectations and want the action wayyyy lower than it needs to be / should be. That said - it's a preference. At some point "buzz" is actually killing tone & sustain though. A good factory spec setup will have little / none - and should play really well. Go lower and playability goes up, and so does buzz!

By the way - stevie ray never whined about the action. Man up and strangle those strings!!! Move up to 11's - way more tension!!!! Which will lessen buzz, by the way...

And beers - that's not a trick! That's how to adjust a truss. I've never had to wait overnight on my LP's though - and those are 3 piece maple necks!!!!

CJ - is that address actually "Quarryville?" I grew up in Christiana...

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

A friend of mine said one of my guitars (the dean flying V) was "scary" because it didn't have any fret buzz anywhere. the string height definitely was not super high, but it wasn't super low either. I'd spend about 1/2 hour on it, it's still going well. A few of my guitars have come out of the cases with the action perfect and minimal buzz so I've kept to the factory gauge of those guitars.

 

[CJRocker]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

CJ - is that address actually "Quarryville?" I grew up in Christiana...

Yes, it is a Typo'd Quarryville. Cool. Probably hasn't changed much haha

 

[jerryjg]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

if you like low action, the guiatrs gonna buzz. thats all there is to it. UNLESS you run across a rare jem of a guiatr. Then a
thats a real rare guitar that plays so perfect!

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

It's very possible to have a well playing guitar with no buzz. You need to level frets (something most production guitars lack) and a good setup.

+ 1.

That's all there's to it. Find an experienced repairman or luthier to do the job, though.

HTH,

Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
Milano, Italy

 

[SepultuRick]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

thanks a lot guys, between you all i think i have heard what i needed to hear. I've never actually been told that buzz is pretty much inevitable for a low action guitar before, especially a fairly low end production guitar like the sz series.

I'll see what i can do, i am worried the higher string gauge suggested by one guy will make the tension to tight for my liking. i like some crunch and easy bends.

i will maybe try it out though

 

[tone_guru]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

I never knew what a properly (professionally) set up guitar felt like until I had it done. Believe me, it's heaven! I'm picky about my action too, and I thought it would need to be lower.... I was wrong. A good setup is worth every penny, and it's not very expensive.

You should be able to get the playability you want out of your guitar with 9's, but if all else fails go to 10's, or maybe 9.5's. Both my Strat and Tele play better with 10's... it's just one of those things...

 

[Aceman]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

Like I said, A factory spec setup, including proper action height AND relief from the truss will have higher action, a better feel, AND less buzz. It's just like the tone when you adjust the pup height / poles properly. Aceman's presecription for no buzz:

#1 Flatter fretboard radius is easier to reduce the buzz with the same low action - tough if the guitar didn't come with that!

#2 Well cut/seated nut (That's the toughest piece to do yourself! I wouldn't.)

#3 clean, crowned, level frets

#4 Proper relief

After that, slightly heavier strings will help (insignificantly IMO - but based on the physics of it - more tension = less motion)

Then there is just a minimum height that they can go before buzz shows up. But if you did all of those other things, that may be pretty low....

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

If you are really serious about having guitars that play great, you owe it to yourself to get the proper tools and learn how to set up a guitar correctly. (no baseball card measuring systems) You need at a minimum, Dan Erlewine's book "how to make your electric guitar play great" (because it comes with string radius gauges in the back) and the small setup ruler from stewmac, which will let you set everything else precisely. Step up to 9.5 gauge strings from D' Addario, that will lessen the buzzy nature of a set of nines without making the action much stiffer. Check the Factory specs for your Ibanez. Set it to the lower end of the range if you like low actions. Leave the CORRECT amount of neck relief (measured precisely) and the CORRECT amount of string height, and the correct string radius on the bridge. If you have problems then, you may need a fret level, but I would suspect that you are underestimating the clearances for a few of these settings. You shouldn't settle for a guitar that has a bad setup. Good luck.

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: Please help, i have never owned or played a guitar that doesn't have fret buzz!!

If you are really serious about having guitars that play great, you owe it to yourself to get the proper tools and learn how to set up a guitar correctly. (no baseball card measuring systems) You need at a minimum, Dan Erlewine's book "how to make your electric guitar play great" (because it comes with string radius gauges in the back) and the small setup ruler from stewmac, which will let you set everything else precisely. Step up to 9.5 gauge strings from D' Addario, that will lessen the buzzy nature of a set of nines without making the action much stiffer. Check the Factory specs for your Ibanez. Set it to the lower end of the range if you like low actions. Leave the CORRECT amount of neck relief (measured precisely) and the CORRECT amount of string height, and the correct string radius on the bridge. If you have problems then, you may need a fret level, but I would suspect that you are underestimating the clearances for a few of these settings. You shouldn't settle for a guitar that has a bad setup. Good luck.

While reading the book is a good idea...its not rocket science, I worked as a tech in the early 90s....no crazy magic to it, baseball card measuring works fine and I just eyeball it and have been for 20+ years to great results.

Nut and fret work require the proper tools and know-how, but a basic setup can be done my any reasonable person. For anyone that has taken there guitar to a tech for a setup, you simply don't have a basic understading of the routine adjustments. Unless you have some bad frets or a bad nut, you typically don't need a tech.