Power amp suggestions for Axe FX, Kemper, etc.

[Inflames626]

Anyone have any recommendations for a good power amp to use with an Axe FX or similar piece of gear? I see Matrix used with them a lot (what Metallica does) but Matrix seems to be having manufacturing issues at the moment.

I'm thinking of a used Axe into a power amp into a 2x12" for a practice rig.

Last time I paid attention to racks most people used Trixaxiseseses (?) and Mesa 90:90s. Now colored tube amps that contain actual tubes don't seem that popular--just flat sounding solid state power amps. Impulse responses do all the work now.

I figure if I'm going to get a practice rig that's portable it might as well just be my portable rig. It wouldn't be that much bigger than a 2x12 Boss Katana or so, and my rack has casters.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I think it depends on what you're after. If you want budget-friendly, the Seymour Duncan poweramps are pretty solid and well-regarded.

If you want tube coloration, grab your poweramp of choice, and be happy. I'm sure the models on the AxeFX are tweakable enough to make them all work.

I run my HX Stomp through a Mooer Tube Engine (20W 2xEL84). It's pretty cool for home use. Might struggle a bit for a full-band scenario.

What I'd be worried about with the SS poweramps is they're all really powerful that I doubt most 2x12's can handle 200+W being thrown at them.

 

[Inflames626]

I think it depends on what you're after. If you want budget-friendly, the Seymour Duncan poweramps are pretty solid and well-regarded.

If you want tube coloration, grab your poweramp of choice, and be happy. I'm sure the models on the AxeFX are tweakable enough to make them all work.

I run my HX Stomp through a Mooer Tube Engine (20W 2xEL84). It's pretty cool for home use. Might struggle a bit for a full-band scenario.

What I'd be worried about with the SS poweramps is they're all really powerful that I doubt most 2x12's can handle 200+W being thrown at them.

Even a 50x50?

My old Crate mentioned in another thread was 2x12" can could handle 130 watts.

 

[Inflames626]

Looks like the PS700 is the only SD rackmount style power amp. I prefer everything in a rack to pedal format cause I'm old and it's 1991 to me. They're out of stock on it.

Everything else is pedal form factor. Not sure I'd need 700 watts.

Why is the wattage that high? Makes sense for a bass rig but not guitar.

 

[Inflames626]

This guy covered it pretty well, and he focuses on rack gear from the 80s and 90s, back when I really followed outboard gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy_3ups-CRA

Would love El Dunco's thoughts on this.

Don't want to say I miss the guy because that sounds weird, but I notice he isn't around as much recently.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Looks like the PS700 is the only SD rackmount style power amp. I prefer everything in a rack to pedal format cause I'm old and it's 1991 to me. They're out of stock on it.

Everything else is pedal form factor. Not sure I'd need 700 watts.

Why is the wattage that high? Makes sense for a bass rig but not guitar.

It's rated that high because that is power at 4 ohms, I believe. Most guitar cabs are 8 or 16 ohms, so the power goes down every time you double the Ohms with Solid State amps. Plus the point in those Duncan Poweramps is they're completely clean so that you get as true representation of what you put into them as you can.

I still would be afraid of running a 700W poweramp into a 130W cab. I don't know about you, but all of the bands I've been in have been very loud in the room. I think that's part of the fun of being in a heavy band. Being obnoxious. Plus at shows, you sometimes get carried away from the adrenaline and everyone just plays harder and louder. I remember once, my guitarist had to turn his Rockerverb 50 to full blast because the energy was just so high. Not to say that's healthy or even good-sounding, but it's just something that's happened to me before. I mean, it was loud, but it was not the loudest thing I've ever heard either.

I personally hate drummers that play heavy music but hit their drums like their afraid to ruin their manicure. With those kinds of drummers, sometimes even 50W and some 100W tube amps need to be pushed. With SS, you need a lot more Watts than that. I think it was Blackstar who mentioned in their research you need like 2.5X the amount of SS watts to match tube poweramps in terms of perceived loudness? Something like that.

 

[Inflames626]

It's rated that high because that is power at 4 ohms, I believe. Most guitar cabs are 8 or 16 ohms, so the power goes down every time you double the Ohms with Solid State amps. Plus the point in those Duncan Poweramps is they're completely clean so that you get as true representation of what you put into them as you can.

I still would be afraid of running a 700W poweramp into a 130W cab. I don't know about you, but all of the bands I've been in have been very loud in the room. I think that's part of the fun of being in a heavy band. Being obnoxious. Plus at shows, you sometimes get carried away from the adrenaline and everyone just plays harder and louder. I remember once, my guitarist had to turn his Rockerverb 50 to full blast because the energy was just so high. Not to say that's healthy or even good-sounding, but it's just something that's happened to me before. I mean, it was loud, but it was not the loudest thing I've ever heard either.

I personally hate drummers that play heavy music but hit their drums like their afraid to ruin their manicure. With those kinds of drummers, sometimes even 50W and some 100W tube amps need to be pushed. With SS, you need a lot more Watts than that. I think it was Blackstar who mentioned in their research you need like 2.5X the amount of SS watts to match tube poweramps in terms of perceived loudness? Something like that.

I didn't know there was a difference in tube generated watts vs. SS. I just know that bass amps tend to be SS (almost completely even except for a rare Ampeg reissue) and higher wattage these days. My Carvin R1000 from the 00s is a 1x15" 2x10" bass combo that runs 1000 watts. Nice built in compressor, parametric, and graphic EQs too.

 

[Inflames626]

I like drummers to play clean and tight, so whatever works for them. If it makes the stage show better for them to be flashy with movement a la Tommy Lee so be it. But I don't really like punk rock aesthetics. Too used to seeing Mean Gene and other technical, often open handed drummers not waste motion.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Gene does play like a sledgehammer, though. Very controlled movements but with POWER.

Same as Nick Barker.

I do like how Adrian Erlandsson plays, though. LOUD and HARD, even if it's slightly less technical or flashy.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I didn't know there was a difference in tube generated watts vs. SS. I just know that bass amps tend to be SS (almost completely even except for a rare Ampeg reissue) and higher wattage these days. My Carvin R1000 from the 00s is a 1x15" 2x10" bass combo that runs 1000 watts. Nice built in compressor, parametric, and graphic EQs too.

I've never understood why tubes are louder, but they kind of are. It's weird, because watts are watts. It's not a subjective unit of measurement. I guess tubes do produce a frequency response that makes them appear louder to our ears. It's weird, though, becuase the whole impedance curve of a tube poweramp is a HUGE midscoop with boosted sublows and presence-y highs. Fletcher Munsen, I suppose?

 

[Mincer]

I say, the PowerStage 200 on a pedal shelf in a rack!

 

[Inflames626]

I've never understood why tubes are louder, but they kind of are. It's weird, because watts are watts. It's not a subjective unit of measurement. I guess tubes do produce a frequency response that makes them appear louder to our ears. It's weird, though, becuase the whole impedance curve of a tube poweramp is a HUGE midscoop with boosted sublows and presence-y highs. Fletcher Munsen, I suppose?

This leads us to baseline cabs. I'm thinking one of these?

https://marshall.com/amps/products/cabinets/1936

https://marshall.com/amps/products/cabinets/1922

https://marshall.com/amps/products/cabinets/jvmc212

https://www.mesaboogie.com/en-US/Amp/0.212D.AB.F/0-212D-AB-F

https://www.mesaboogie.com/en-US/Amp/0.212R.AB.F/0-212R-AB-F

https://www.mesaboogie.com/en-US/Amp/0.212RK.AB.FC/0-212RK-AB-FC

 

[Inflames626]

The idea of an optional dust cover on them cracks me up considering how much dust, sweat, and alcohol these see on a daily basis while in use.

 

[Securb]

What I'd be worried about with the SS poweramps is they're all really powerful that I doubt most 2x12's can handle 200+W being thrown at them.

I had a 2x300w JBL power amp in my rack setup. I could never get the amp to volumes where blowing the speakers would be a problem. Plus, you can always dial back the gain/vol.

Depending on budget I would look into some of the rack units of the 90's and 20000s, Mesa 50/50, Peavey, Marshall, and even Carvin. There are a ton of rack poweramps that can be had for a song seeing many people have moved on from rack units.

 

[Inflames626]

I had a 2x300w JBL power amp in my rack setup. I could never get the amp to volumes where blowing the speakers would be a problem. Plus, you can always dial back the gain/vol.

Depending on budget I would look into some of the rack units of the 90's and 20000s, Mesa 50/50, Peavey, Marshall, and even Carvin. There are a ton of rack poweramps that can be had for a song seeing many people have moved on from rack units.

Pedal boards seem to be the trend now.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

This leads us to baseline cabs. I'm thinking one of these?

https://marshall.com/amps/products/cabinets/1936

https://marshall.com/amps/products/cabinets/1922

https://marshall.com/amps/products/cabinets/jvmc212

https://www.mesaboogie.com/en-US/Amp/0.212D.AB.F/0-212D-AB-F

https://www.mesaboogie.com/en-US/Amp/0.212R.AB.F/0-212R-AB-F

https://www.mesaboogie.com/en-US/Amp/0.212RK.AB.FC/0-212RK-AB-FC

Out of those, I would go for the standard Rectifier 2x12. Killer-sounding cabs. Very different from the 4x12's too as those have 16 ohm speakers and the 4x12's have 8 ohm speakers.

The Marshall 1936V is pretty cool. But the standard 1936 is underwhelming with the T-75's (IMO, of course). Also, if you buy one of those used, try to buy a newer one. In 2013, they started making them out of plywood. Before that, they were MDF. Those cabs used to be so pissed on because they were MDF yet so expensive.

I would stay away from open back cabs for heavy music, personally.

 

[Inflames626]

Out of those, I would go for the standard Rectifier 2x12. Killer-sounding cabs. Very different from the 4x12's too as those have 16 ohm speakers and the 4x12's have 8 ohm speakers.

The Marshall 1936V is pretty cool. But the standard 1936 is underwhelming with the T-75's (IMO, of course). Also, if you buy one of those used, try to buy a newer one. In 2013, they started making them out of plywood. Before that, they were MDF. Those cabs used to be so pissed on because they were MDF yet so expensive.

I would stay away from open back cabs for heavy music, personally.

I agree on the open back, but was kind of conflicted. Sometimes that thump helps, and sometimes it's woofy. I thought maybe an open back might emphasize the mids and highs a bit more and tighten up the low end.

Also not sure if recording an open back cab with mics leads to bleed over from the back of the cab, even at the front.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Oh, and I'm not sure if the Orange Pedal Baby is rack-mountable. I think they do have removable rack-moungint tabs? But those are cool too. They're 100W. Solid State but Class A/B, so they supposedly behave more like a tube poweramp than the Duncan.

Supposedly.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...l-baby-100-100-watt-class-a-b-power-amplifier

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I agree on the open back, but was kind of conflicted. Sometimes that thump helps, and sometimes it's woofy. I thought maybe an open back might emphasize the mids and highs a bit more and tighten up the low end.

Also not sure if recording an open back cab with mics leads to bleed over from the back of the cab, even at the front.

The problem is that both open back cabs that you posted have a blend of two different speakers.

It's cool for in-the-room sounds, but recorded, it's more trouble since you're going to dual mic them. You're going to phase-align the mics and whatnot. It's really not a big deal, but it is an extra step from just throwing a mic in front and be done with it.

Also, for playing live, I don't think sound guys usually want to dual-mic your amp, so you'll have to choose which speaker they mic and then dial the tone according to which speaker you choose, which is going to throw your in-the-room sound off.

People like blending speakers inside cabs. I personally don't. It can sound cool in the room, but I always find it's a compromise. I always like one speaker better than the other, so I always feel like I'm just watering down the speaker that I like best with the other kind, but that's just me.

Open back cabs actually have the tendency to have less of a controlled low-end. They can get harsher, yes, but also looser, depending on where you place them in the room.

 

[DankStar]

Just a paltry 4 cents here….

- a powered cab would be simplest, like a FRFR/PA kinda thing. They’re inexpensive too. Can get super loud when needed, and you can use it with Bluetooth for playing music from your phone. A win-win.
- or, if you have a tube amp with an effects loop use that for power
- for home use I find 2 x12s too big. A nice 1 x 12 v30 goes a long way
- for home use and solid state power you could literally use almost anything - small DIY power amps, those little pedal power amps, cheap SS rack power, etc. I have a small parts express amp that works fine for powering a cab at bedroom volumes.