Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

great stuff GJ. Thanks.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

The EI's are good tubes, but just a little trebly and can have a ringy undertone when the amp is at full blast. The Gold Elites with gold plated pins are a step better, but they're still more expensive than some of the winners of the shootout.

The EH's are pretty similar to the Chinese, but when I backed the gain down to 3, the sound would get a tad skinnier than with the winners of the shootout. Honestly, it's so close and almost inaudible, that it's not worth fretting about if you've got fresh pre's in your amp.

I mostly did this shootout so that people can go straight to the best, next time they retube their amp, or if they feel like buying 1 tube to make things as perfect as they can.

 

[rraawwrr]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

I keep seeing that the Sovtek LPS are used by Mesa/Boogie. Does this mean that they are stock in my amplifier?

I put a 12AX7M in V1, and it completely kicked the crap out of the stock 12AX7 - however if GJ says the Sovtek tube is better, I doubt I had one in there in the first place. For you Mesa guys, what do you run in V1? I've seen some of you have the 12AX7M's, and some have the C's too.

 

[APB_4]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

I wasn't 100% sure earlier but Harma is part of Watford valves although they don't actually make them.

 

[Buckeyedog]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

GJ, I've tried several tubes in my Budda....RFT, Jan/phillips, JJ, EH, 12AX7M.....I currently have chinese in V1 and LPS in V2! Sounds terrific!

 

[some_dude]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

I keep seeing that the Sovtek LPS are used by Mesa/Boogie. Does this mean that they are stock in my amplifier?

Unless it's changed, I'm pretty sure the stock tubes are Electro Harmonics 12AX7EH.

 

[Faraday]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

Tonight, I did a preamp tube shootout, just to see what pre tubes are the KING of high gain. The test amp was my extremely good sounding 50W Marshall Jubilee on Jubilee 4-12 w/Vin 30's and Tesla JJ E-34L's (10% higher output than EL-34's)

I actually lined up my whole collection of preamp tubes and started popping them in one after the next in the 1st position. The other 2 are GT12AX7C's.
I listened to the amp's gain from 3 to 10, and listened for thickness, tightness, and sustain on chords and high notes.

First of all, preamp tubes are very difficult to hear all the differences, sometimes there was almost no discernable difference.

I won't bore you with the details of all of them I tried, like the Russian 12AX7A, EI's, EI Gold Elites, Sovtek WXT, JJ ECC83, Electroharmonix, and some Various no-name ones pulled from old amps. All of them sounded good, but I'll narrow it down to the high gain killers for you.

Mullard 12AX7/7025 Made in Britain NOS. Pretty damn good, but just a tiny bit of mush at highest gain settings....gain on 10 fairly loud.

GT12AX7M (Mullard copy) A tiny bit fatter than NOS Mullard, but again, just a bit indistinct and sloppy when gain is on 10. Sounds better on vintage type amps.

Tungsol 12AX7 Current Production. Nice rich tone, tight, and great gain, but the sustain would drop out just a little. Still a great tube well worth buying, but let's move on. Keep in mind, I'm splitting hairs....it's a phenomenal tube.

GT12AX7C or any unlabeled Chinese 12AX7 Shuguang 9th Generation.
Now, we're getting into the top rung on the ladder! These are extremely tight on the palm mutes and have excellent sustain for low and high notes!
These are what come stock in Bogners and Two Rock's I believe. I use them in my Ecstasy and they sound great! The only drawback is that the overall tone is just a tiny bit narrow in order to give you that super high gain. You get great chunk and sustain, but you may need to back your treble down 1 notch because of it's bite. Killer tube!

Telefunken Hand Selected German NOS. What can I say, it's the most legendary 12AX7 there is! Sweet smooth and sustaining with tight low end chunk even with the gain backed down to 7. With gain on 10, it stays clear and tight, just like the Chinese 12AX7, but it's a tiny bit warmer and sweeter.
The drawback? Expensive as hell! Why spend the money when you can get the prior tube or the next one on my list.....the high gain amp winner!!!

The SOVTEK 12AX7 LPS!!! Sweet, smooth, sustaining, the right amount of aggression and low end palm muted chunk at all gain levels. Trust me, I went back and forth about 6 times, shutting off the amp, and swapping tubes between the 12AX7C, the Telefunken, and the Sovtek LPS. It came down to a battle between the Telefunken and the LPS, because it was THAT close.

In summary, if you own a highgain amp like a modern Marshall, Jubilee, Mesa Rectifier, Stilletto, ENGL, Peavey JSX, 5150, Soldano, or other similar amp, it's not a bad idea to swap out your pre tubes for either the GT12AX7C @$14, or the Sovtek 12AX7LPS @$12. The 1st position will make a difference, but you may as well get a set of 3 if you haven't changed them in several years.

OK, I hear most people here raving about the GT12ax7C, but now the Sovtek 12ax7LPS has crept in. Are we gonna have to have a poll question now? Which is it the GT12AX7C, or the Sovtek 12AX7LPS? Who cares about price?!

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

I keep seeing that the Sovtek LPS are used by Mesa/Boogie. Does this mean that they are stock in my amplifier?

I put a 12AX7M in V1, and it completely kicked the crap out of the stock 12AX7 - however if GJ says the Sovtek tube is better, I doubt I had one in there in the first place. For you Mesa guys, what do you run in V1? I've seen some of you have the 12AX7M's, and some have the C's too.

I run gt12ax7m in #1 and fx loop or #4 and 12ax7eh in the other 3 positions in my Rectifier. The #1 fattens everything up and sounds the biggest and in the fxloop tube it fattens the loop signal when engaged only and it doesnt lose its fullness but the Gt12ax7m is not as high output as the EH. I hear the M is only around 103 rated and the EH is around 110. I was told not to use a M int he phase invertor as it is not high enough output to drive your power tubes and is rareley balanced either.

 

[Boston Joe]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

I've been using the Sovtek 12AX7WAs in a Carvin X100B and they really loosened up that stiffness and gave it a much rounder, warmer tone-- pushing into that old Boogie territory.

 

[CaughtLikeFire]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

Unless it's changed, I'm pretty sure the stock tubes are Electro Harmonics 12AX7EH.

My 2004 Rectoverb came with Sovtek LPS.

Right now I'm liking the new JJ 803 long plate in V1 and stock LPS's in 2-5.

The high gain JJECC83's sounded too dark and lacked detail.

 

[Faraday]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

I keep seeing that the Sovtek LPS are used by Mesa/Boogie. Does this mean that they are stock in my amplifier?

I put a 12AX7M in V1, and it completely kicked the crap out of the stock 12AX7 - however if GJ says the Sovtek tube is better, I doubt I had one in there in the first place. For you Mesa guys, what do you run in V1? I've seen some of you have the 12AX7M's, and some have the C's too.

I have been using vintage telefunken 12ax7's in my triaxis for v1, v2 and v4 and mullard 12at7 or 12au7 in v3 and v5 I believe. This then gets routed to a THD Univalve where I have a vintage Mullard 12ax7 in the input and Amperex 12at7 in the driver and a Tung Sol 5881 for the Power Amp tube.

 

[PUCKBOY99]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

How would the chinese sound in a BF fender circuit?

I dig the tone of my NOS GE 5751's for loads of clean headroom, but i also refer to an LPS when i want some gain. It's a non master volume. Would my BF amp benefit from a chinese tube in the V1?

I honestly don't know, but they're cheap enough to give it a try!

They'll probably just tighten up the overall tone & give it a bit more blues-rock bite....kinda' like the LPS.

 

[theodie]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

i'll keep this in mind for the engl when it needs tubes and may try some of those Sovteks in the near future in the ultra plus (it has all JJs now). good info, thanks for the review!!

-Mike

I tell you what, I roll the LPS's and love them!!! I came up on a set of JJ's and I decided to try them out, they didnt last 5 minutes in my amp before the LPS's went back in. I love mine!!

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

I just have a really hard time putting anthing in my amp that says Sovtek. I have had such ****ty experiences with those tubes in the past.

 

[PUCKBOY99]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

Lemme' know how the RFT does in the Marshall V1 Jeff....

 

[Stevo]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

Thanks for the reviews bro

I totally agree with you on the LPS tubes. The Tube Store recommendeds them also. I like the way they sound in Fender amps for clean tone also. Not all Sovteks are created equal.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

I honestly don't know, but they're cheap enough to give it a try!

They'll probably just tighten up the overall tone & give it a bit more blues-rock bite....kinda' like the LPS.

Which one has more mids-LPS or Chinese? I'm thinking of making an AB switch between my vibrato and normal channels so i can slap on the gain of my LPS or Chinese in normal, or let the clean chords ring in vibrato.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

I just picked up 4 more GT's today.

12AX7-C
12AX7-M
12AX7-R
12AX7-R2

I'll take the ones back to GC that I don't use. Probably the R will be going back, but we'll see.

 

[JammerMatt]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

Great post, Joneser! Good info. As you probably know, I don't have a toob amp, but the Jubilee/Slash is coming someday, and I'll be sending you a note saying, "what were those Russian tubes you were recommending?"

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Preamp Tubes for High Gain. Shootout Results.

Next, I might do a power tube swap with a few brands, but I won't be touching the bias, just popping them in and out.