Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

[UTGrad]

Just got back in town and have spent a couple hours with my new Epi LP Standard Pro with the Pro Buckers. These sound really good out of my Vox modeling amp. I’ve got my amp set on a Marshall and with the Pro Buckers sounds great. The neck and bridge pickups are clear and when driven not muddy. There’s almost this distinctive “quack” that sounds like a LP with a Marshall to me.

I’m not going to touch these in my LP but I am going to put a WLH set in my SG.

Great stock pickups.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

Yeah, Epi is definitely getting better about their pickups. I remember when I younger I decided to remove the covers on my Epi Les Paul and I basically got this:

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

The biggest difference with the Probucker versus the old 57CH and HOTCH is that now they're not overwound at all, and they use nickel silver covers and baseplates. They also have wood spacers instead of plastic, in case you're concerned about how maple you tone sounds.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

If it sounds good, it's good. Tone quest over, you're done. Just enjoy.

 

[Pumpkinspice]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

I’ve tested two Epiphones when I went buying another guitar two weeks ago one with Probuckers and another with Alnico Classic Pros (a new version of Alnico Classics and Classic Plus set), and I preferred the A Classic Pros, though I generally liked both. Epiphone pickups are definitely good enough for a lot of different genres and I can understand why some people let them stay in their guitars. I swapped my bridge for a Custom, from ACPro bridge, but I left the neck alone.

In retrospect I tried out an older epi guitar they had around cheaper with a set of 700/650 ceramics and eww both muddy and shrill at the same time.

 

[Lovegun]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

In retrospect I tried out an older epi guitar they had around cheaper with a set of 700/650 ceramics and eww both muddy and shrill at the same time.

I have owned a few epis in the past and the pickups were not good. Now I have a g-400 pro 1966 and the pickups are good. They're Alnico Classic Pros and I no need to change them.

 

[Diego]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

I absolutely love the Probuckers in my Les Paul PlusTop Pro.

Great definition. At first I thought the neck pickup was hopelessly dark and muddy, then I learned how low you have to set a neck pup in a Les Paul to make it sound right.
They'll handle diabolical amounts of gain like they were made for it, but will still sound sweet and smooth if you dial things back to the vintage zone. Unbelievable.
It feels at home from Kiss to Metallica and Mastodon. Besides T-Tops, I don't think I've ever tried a Gibson pickup set I've liked as much as these, so they're definitely staying for a long time.

Only drawback is they don't sound too good split IMO, a bit too sharp in an ugly way through my rig, not very usable to me.
I've also got a Epi ES-339 Pro and that thing sounds beautiful split. But that one has Alnico Classic Pros.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

Diego: This is what I do to improve on coil cut:

Wire the neck tone pot for spin-a-split, and you get all the great unbalanced coil tones in between full HB and coil cut. MUCH better then plain coil cut. If you wire it so that the screw coil is the one that stays at full strength, in the middle position you can pair it with the slug coil of the bridge HB (in coil cut mode), and have a 'virtual HB' (like a Strat in positions 2 & 4). A softer & more useable tone than overly bright & thin coil cuts. It's like "coil cut improved." An easy, no-cost way to add a lot of nice tones to your guitar.

I've also started adding the Kinman treble bleed mod to my guitars (cap & resistor in series instead of parallel), which prevents them from getting too dark when I dial the volume down.

 

[Diego]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

Hey Blueman! Thanks for the tips.

I remember discussing with Artie the possibility of a "quarter-split" push-pull pot, meaning that instead of keeping each coil's volumes at 0-10 (fully split), it would be something like 2.5-10, meaning some extra oomph and less ice pick as a result. I'll dig that thread up and see if there's anything.
I'd try and wire things up for a Spin-a-Split, but I'm useless with a soldering iron and I've decided not to botch my new guitars with mine.
I'll keep redoing the guts in my old cheaper guitars, but my Les Paul and my 339, no way.

And I definitely want treble bleeds in all my guitars now. Bought a used Telecaster in which the previous owner installed one, and it blows my mind how good it's to have it.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

I almost can't understand why everyone doesn't do some type of mod to keep the treble, whether it be the Kinman mod, or some other treble bleed mod, or 50's wiring, etc.

I hate how my treble goes away when I turn down the volume if I don't have some sort of mod. I now use 50's wiring on almost every guitar, but sometimes I'll use a treble bleed mod (cap+resister)...not sure which one I like best yet at this point.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

Yeah, Epi is definitely getting better about their pickups. I remember when I younger I decided to remove the covers on my Epi Les Paul and I basically got this:

View attachment 86562

So many people like to badmouth wax potting.........until they experience that "un-potted squeal", then they feel that potting is a godsend. And there are lots of blogs and tutorials actually instructing you how to accomplish it yourself.

A lot of pups, not just Epi, are full of wax like your pic. But isn't that the objective of wax potting in the first place? If all of that wax has successfully accomplished the objective of reducing squeal, then they deserve kudos not disparagement.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

Right, but if they put that little care and discretion into the amount of wax they put on the coils, what does that say about the rest of the product?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

I almost can't understand why everyone doesn't do some type of mod to keep the treble, whether it be the Kinman mod, or some other treble bleed mod, or 50's wiring, etc.

I hate how my treble goes away when I turn down the volume if I don't have some sort of mod. I now use 50's wiring on almost every guitar, but sometimes I'll use a treble bleed mod (cap+resister)...not sure which one I like best yet at this point.

+1. I'm late to the party learning about treble bleed mods, but have been doing some research to get up to speed. I've always disliked the treble loss when dialing down volume pots. You get a tone dialed in, but lose it when adjusting the volume. For me, the Kinman mod is the best fit (Kinman's a sharp guy, knows a lot about electronics), and I'm putting it on my guitars. Cap & resistor for a pot is less than a dollar, and anyone (yes, even Diego) can do it in a few minutes. Treble bleeds of some sort should be factory standard on all electric guitars.

I applaud Gibson & Epiphone for taking the step of using push-pulls for coil cut on a number of recent models, and hope they continue to build on that. If they also wired them so that in coil cut the neck screw coil stays on, so it that it pairs with the slug coil of the bridge, that would be another very usable tone (coil swap mod). This would be extremely inexpensive for them to do. One step at a time.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

I almost can't understand why everyone doesn't do some type of mod to keep the treble, whether it be the Kinman mod, or some other treble bleed mod, or 50's wiring, etc.

I hate how my treble goes away when I turn down the volume if I don't have some sort of mod. I now use 50's wiring on almost every guitar, but sometimes I'll use a treble bleed mod (cap+resister)...not sure which one I like best yet at this point.

I need to spend some time learning about treble bleed mods. Question..... if you have 50's wiring is a treble bleed even necessary?

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

I need to spend some time learning about treble bleed mods. Question..... if you have 50's wiring is a treble bleed even necessary?

I can tell you from my own experience that with 50’s wiring you don’t need a treble bleed.
It ends up sounding like a cocked wah, nasally sounding mess. lol

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

Here's one trick I learned about treble bleeds, instead of bridging the input and output of the volume control with the RC network, bridge the volume input and the unused lug on the tone control. That will stop the "treble sheen" problem when neither your volume or tone are on 10.

 

[Diego]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

+1. I'm late to the party learning about treble bleed mods, but have been doing some research to get up to speed. I've always disliked the treble loss when dialing down volume pots. You get a tone dialed in, but lose it when adjusting the volume. For me, the Kinman mod is the best fit (Kinman's a sharp guy, knows a lot about electronics), and I'm putting it on my guitars. Cap & resistor for a pot is less than a dollar, and anyone (yes, even Diego) can do it in a few minutes. Treble bleeds of some sort should be factory standard on all electric guitars.

I applaud Gibson & Epiphone for taking the step of using push-pulls for coil cut on a number of recent models, and hope they continue to build on that. If they also wired them so that in coil cut the neck screw coil stays on, so it that it pairs with the slug coil of the bridge, that would be another very usable tone (coil swap mod). This would be extremely inexpensive for them to do. One step at a time.

:firing:

It is definitely the simplest mod I can think of, and the results are tremendous.

 

[Zombiwoof]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

Vintage Teles had an .001uf cap used as a treble bleed on them, I think that is where the idea came from in the first place. Fender uses treble bleeds on certain models even today, although they have a cute name for it and consider it a "feature". It is generally thought that an .001uf cap is too high a value today, it depends on the pickup type and specs. The resistor in parallel is used to even out pot taper and is not always necessary. I think Kinman puts the resistor in series with the cap as I recall, I am not sure how that is different than in parallel.
Al

+1. I'm late to the party learning about treble bleed mods, but have been doing some research to get up to speed. I've always disliked the treble loss when dialing down volume pots. You get a tone dialed in, but lose it when adjusting the volume. For me, the Kinman mod is the best fit (Kinman's a sharp guy, knows a lot about electronics), and I'm putting it on my guitars. Cap & resistor for a pot is less than a dollar, and anyone (yes, even Diego) can do it in a few minutes. Treble bleeds of some sort should be factory standard on all electric guitars.

I applaud Gibson & Epiphone for taking the step of using push-pulls for coil cut on a number of recent models, and hope they continue to build on that. If they also wired them so that in coil cut the neck screw coil stays on, so it that it pairs with the slug coil of the bridge, that would be another very usable tone (coil swap mod). This would be extremely inexpensive for them to do. One step at a time.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

Vintage Teles had an .001uf cap used as a treble bleed on them, I think that is where the idea came from in the first place. Fender uses treble bleeds on certain models even today, although they have a cute name for it and consider it a "feature". It is generally thought that an .001uf cap is too high a value today, it depends on the pickup type and specs. The resistor in parallel is used to even out pot taper and is not always necessary. I think Kinman puts the resistor in series with the cap as I recall, I am not sure how that is different than in parallel.
Al

Putting the cap in resistor in parallel affects the taper of the pot, putting it in series doesn't. Whether or not this is a good thing depends on your pot taper and personal preference.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pro Buckers: They Sound Good to Me

I need to spend some time learning about treble bleed mods. Question..... if you have 50's wiring is a treble bleed even necessary?

There's a number of ways to do treble bleeds. I did some looking on Google for them and found some good info. Check these out: DrKevGuitar & Ironstone Pickups.

Maybe when guitar makers got away from '50's wiring (there are some downsides to it) the need for treble bleed arose. With modern wiring, resistance increases as volume pots are turned down, which is what reduces high end. I think most guitarists would prefer that it not happen, but don't know that there's alternatives to it, and that they're cheap and easy.