Archer250
Well-known member
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
I dunno. Every other ibby has superior frets.
Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
- Thread starter greekdude
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Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
I'm having trouble with the 'neck pushing up against the pickup' part of the story. I am more inclined in thinking that the pickguard is mounted too far towards the neck. Also, I'm thinking the bridge is the problem, not the neck or neck attachment itself. The neck pocket and neck are CNC routed to a fair amount of accuracy. Those things won't change overnight. A fraction of a millimeter is enough to make the tuning go crazy.
If it were me I'd try the guitar without a PG, to see what happens. Unfortunately, this bridge is very unstable in my opinion yet hard to replace. If this guitar has to be 'stable as a rock', the entire construction has to change. For starters, 2 carbon strips in the neck, a good quality trem (OFR, at least). That means, all the holes have to be replugged and redrilled, maybe even some routing (and thus lacquering), the neck needs to be taken care of as well. man, that's a job I wouldn't want to do. In my shop, that would be approximately a grand worth of rework. better start all over and be done with it.
I'm having trouble with the 'neck pushing up against the pickup' part of the story. I am more inclined in thinking that the pickguard is mounted too far towards the neck. Also, I'm thinking the bridge is the problem, not the neck or neck attachment itself. The neck pocket and neck are CNC routed to a fair amount of accuracy. Those things won't change overnight. A fraction of a millimeter is enough to make the tuning go crazy.
If it were me I'd try the guitar without a PG, to see what happens. Unfortunately, this bridge is very unstable in my opinion yet hard to replace. If this guitar has to be 'stable as a rock', the entire construction has to change. For starters, 2 carbon strips in the neck, a good quality trem (OFR, at least). That means, all the holes have to be replugged and redrilled, maybe even some routing (and thus lacquering), the neck needs to be taken care of as well. man, that's a job I wouldn't want to do. In my shop, that would be approximately a grand worth of rework. better start all over and be done with it.
LonePhantom
New member
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Why do you think the bridge is unstable? The Edge Zero models have received great reviews with regards to their stability.
Why do you think the bridge is unstable? The Edge Zero models have received great reviews with regards to their stability.
Brian Griffin
New member
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Why don't you start raising hell about this issue at Ibanez Forum http://forum.ibanez.com/ or Jemsite.
Why don't you start raising hell about this issue at Ibanez Forum http://forum.ibanez.com/ or Jemsite.
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Thanx a lot Orpheo, quite some well documented theories you presented here. The theory of the pickguard has been presented over at jemsite as well. By the picks of it :
it doesn't seem like pickguard is mounted far towards the neck, at least looking at its clearance with the bridge. So, the other option would be that the bridge was routed wrongly too far towards the neck side? But isn't the bridge CNC routed as well?
About carbon strips, I think few 7-strings have any neck reinforcement rods, + this neck is *already* re-inforced with KTS titanium rods! That's why I picked this guitar among other 7-strings, well one of the reasons.
About the bridge, surely the saddle screws were crap, and the springs I suspect as well. But unless the plate holes start to colapse, I cannot see any reason why it would not hold tune. It is just two opposite forces applied to some steel knife edges, a better design overall than OFR IMO. If this bridge was fully steel and if the fine tuners were easier to turn, it would be one of the best I had tried. With my Carvin with OFR, it took me over 15 years of tests, work, changing nuts, repairing wood, and most importantly strings before it became a truly stable trem.
What do you mean start all over? Looking for another guitar? Now pls, I need your advice, as a man doing this by trade, what would you advise? In case the guitar falls apart again (I wont touch the tools I swear), what are my legal tools against the enemy ? (Thomann + Ibanez)
Thanx a lot Orpheo, quite some well documented theories you presented here. The theory of the pickguard has been presented over at jemsite as well. By the picks of it :
it doesn't seem like pickguard is mounted far towards the neck, at least looking at its clearance with the bridge. So, the other option would be that the bridge was routed wrongly too far towards the neck side? But isn't the bridge CNC routed as well?
About carbon strips, I think few 7-strings have any neck reinforcement rods, + this neck is *already* re-inforced with KTS titanium rods! That's why I picked this guitar among other 7-strings, well one of the reasons.
About the bridge, surely the saddle screws were crap, and the springs I suspect as well. But unless the plate holes start to colapse, I cannot see any reason why it would not hold tune. It is just two opposite forces applied to some steel knife edges, a better design overall than OFR IMO. If this bridge was fully steel and if the fine tuners were easier to turn, it would be one of the best I had tried. With my Carvin with OFR, it took me over 15 years of tests, work, changing nuts, repairing wood, and most importantly strings before it became a truly stable trem.
What do you mean start all over? Looking for another guitar? Now pls, I need your advice, as a man doing this by trade, what would you advise? In case the guitar falls apart again (I wont touch the tools I swear), what are my legal tools against the enemy ? (Thomann + Ibanez)
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
The edge zero one of the two high-end Ibanez trems available (edge zero, lo pro). The the edge zero II is found on all models under and including premiums, which means even the cheapest 400 EUR models have this trem. As a design it is good, but the materials are not good. I cannot imagine the edge zero ii, in stock state, to be able to manage the tension of 11's or higher. The saddles will start slipping. A cheap solution is upgrade to steel saddle screws, but then the steel will be harder than the plate, and this might make the holes to strip threads, which is *bad*, and a helicoil job in eastern europe would cost about 50 EUR, it is not trivial at all. And again, the unscrew/screwing applications should not be an every-day job, just intonate the thing, make it stable and leave it there. The natural upgrade would be towards edge zero or lo pro, but this would require some routing.
The edge zero one of the two high-end Ibanez trems available (edge zero, lo pro). The the edge zero II is found on all models under and including premiums, which means even the cheapest 400 EUR models have this trem. As a design it is good, but the materials are not good. I cannot imagine the edge zero ii, in stock state, to be able to manage the tension of 11's or higher. The saddles will start slipping. A cheap solution is upgrade to steel saddle screws, but then the steel will be harder than the plate, and this might make the holes to strip threads, which is *bad*, and a helicoil job in eastern europe would cost about 50 EUR, it is not trivial at all. And again, the unscrew/screwing applications should not be an every-day job, just intonate the thing, make it stable and leave it there. The natural upgrade would be towards edge zero or lo pro, but this would require some routing.
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Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Hey, I did!, http://forum.ibanez.com is a little silent. But I raised this issue at jemsite : http://www.jemsite.com/forums/f15/ngd-ibanez-uv70p-133216.html
Hey, I did!, http://forum.ibanez.com is a little silent. But I raised this issue at jemsite : http://www.jemsite.com/forums/f15/ngd-ibanez-uv70p-133216.html
Brian Griffin
New member
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Actually I have the Edge Zero II stock in my Ibanez with 11s and it is very stable, at least compared to a licensed floyd. I have done extreme divebombs with it and it has managed to stay in tune quite well. Maybe a few cents drop but still manageable using the fine tuners.
Actually I have the Edge Zero II stock in my Ibanez with 11s and it is very stable, at least compared to a licensed floyd. I have done extreme divebombs with it and it has managed to stay in tune quite well. Maybe a few cents drop but still manageable using the fine tuners.
kramersteen
PowerMetalRaph
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Hey brain was yours made in the Indonesian factory>?
Hey brain was yours made in the Indonesian factory>?
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Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Hey Brian, good to know. Divebombs are fine, the problem is with pull ups (Pantera style).
BTW, do you have the stock saddle screws? Have you ever adjusted intonation?
Hey Brian, good to know. Divebombs are fine, the problem is with pull ups (Pantera style).
BTW, do you have the stock saddle screws? Have you ever adjusted intonation?
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Brian Griffin
New member
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
The guitar is RG3XXV Indonesian made. I think standard RGs and Premiums are all Indonesian made.
O yeah, pull ups are fine as well cause I like to emulate that gear-shifting Ferrari trick (like the intro to Motley Crue's Kickstart My Heart), and that Vai trick where the bar is behind the bridge and pushed (akin to pull-ups if the bar is in normal position/ in front of the bridge). Basically I just **** the crap out of that thing and it stays in tune quite well.
Everything is stock including the saddle screws.
Intonation has been adjusted but only slightly cause it's difficult to be precise moving the saddles manually (as opposed to being able to use a screwdriver in vintage/ Strat tremolo), and I didn't want to screw up the saddle position.
The guitar is RG3XXV Indonesian made. I think standard RGs and Premiums are all Indonesian made.
O yeah, pull ups are fine as well cause I like to emulate that gear-shifting Ferrari trick (like the intro to Motley Crue's Kickstart My Heart), and that Vai trick where the bar is behind the bridge and pushed (akin to pull-ups if the bar is in normal position/ in front of the bridge). Basically I just **** the crap out of that thing and it stays in tune quite well.
Everything is stock including the saddle screws.
Intonation has been adjusted but only slightly cause it's difficult to be precise moving the saddles manually (as opposed to being able to use a screwdriver in vintage/ Strat tremolo), and I didn't want to screw up the saddle position.
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Everything is CNC routed. Since that is all computer controlled I tried to find another reason for this problem. I doubt a pickguard has enough strength to push a neck out of the way. it's just a small strip of plastic after all. I've seen pickguards bulge because they were mounted too far forward, giving this EXACT same problem. If the pickguard is lining up nicely near the bridge, I will assume the neck itself is the culprit. More on that later.
My apologies, I wasn't aware of that. Should've done my homework better. Those titanium rods are stiff, for sure. But... metal loves to work: expand, contract, twist. Carbon rods simply won't. I build ALL my necks with carbon reinforcement rods. It's a tiny bit of extra work, but the neck is as stable as one could wish for. Without even using a multi laminated neck. Not that there's anything wrong with a multi piece neck, don't get me wrong. I just use it for esthetics and tonal reasons, not for stability.
as far as I'm concerned I see nothing different from a regular floyd, except some visual changes. Technichally, they appear to be the same. With the exception of the contraption in the spring cavity bu that's just a stabilizing unit, nothing more.
Well... If It were up to me I'd simply build a new one. As a luthier, I wouldn't leave a guitar with these kind of issues, technical issues, leave my shop. So, if a customer would come to me with these complaints I'd build a new guitar for them. I would recommend against an Ibanez trem all together, by the way, since they're so convoluted: the more you complicate the piping, the easier it is to to clog the drain! A cold rolled steel baseplate won't strip easily. More often than not are the screws of a softer material than the baseplate on a gotoh or OFR bridge, which means you may have to change the screws: the baseplate will remain true. Of course, this isn't per se the issue on your guitar. It may be. Not sure. I'd have to see it for myself and use a torque measurement device to see how much torque can be applied to each saddle. But... if the saddles move, either the screw of baseplate is stripped.
What I meant about the Edge trem is that the knife edge isn't as hard as on an OFR or a Gotoh floyd, which may be part of the problem. I've done a few retrofits of this trem because some dudes were totally unhappy with it. I don't support your idea about the OFR, sorry
I've had nothing but great, stable results with the OFR.
Edit: I'm talking about the regular edge zero. The zero II is 'even worse' in that respect.
Thanx a lot Orpheo, quite some well documented theories you presented here. The theory of the pickguard has been presented over at jemsite as well. By the picks of it :
it doesn't seem like pickguard is mounted far towards the neck, at least looking at its clearance with the bridge. So, the other option would be that the bridge was routed wrongly too far towards the neck side? But isn't the bridge CNC routed as well?
Everything is CNC routed. Since that is all computer controlled I tried to find another reason for this problem. I doubt a pickguard has enough strength to push a neck out of the way. it's just a small strip of plastic after all. I've seen pickguards bulge because they were mounted too far forward, giving this EXACT same problem. If the pickguard is lining up nicely near the bridge, I will assume the neck itself is the culprit. More on that later.
My apologies, I wasn't aware of that. Should've done my homework better. Those titanium rods are stiff, for sure. But... metal loves to work: expand, contract, twist. Carbon rods simply won't. I build ALL my necks with carbon reinforcement rods. It's a tiny bit of extra work, but the neck is as stable as one could wish for. Without even using a multi laminated neck. Not that there's anything wrong with a multi piece neck, don't get me wrong. I just use it for esthetics and tonal reasons, not for stability.
as far as I'm concerned I see nothing different from a regular floyd, except some visual changes. Technichally, they appear to be the same. With the exception of the contraption in the spring cavity bu that's just a stabilizing unit, nothing more.
Well... If It were up to me I'd simply build a new one. As a luthier, I wouldn't leave a guitar with these kind of issues, technical issues, leave my shop. So, if a customer would come to me with these complaints I'd build a new guitar for them. I would recommend against an Ibanez trem all together, by the way, since they're so convoluted: the more you complicate the piping, the easier it is to to clog the drain! A cold rolled steel baseplate won't strip easily. More often than not are the screws of a softer material than the baseplate on a gotoh or OFR bridge, which means you may have to change the screws: the baseplate will remain true. Of course, this isn't per se the issue on your guitar. It may be. Not sure. I'd have to see it for myself and use a torque measurement device to see how much torque can be applied to each saddle. But... if the saddles move, either the screw of baseplate is stripped.
What I meant about the Edge trem is that the knife edge isn't as hard as on an OFR or a Gotoh floyd, which may be part of the problem. I've done a few retrofits of this trem because some dudes were totally unhappy with it. I don't support your idea about the OFR, sorry
I've had nothing but great, stable results with the OFR. Edit: I'm talking about the regular edge zero. The zero II is 'even worse' in that respect.
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
The problem with Thomann and Ibanez is actually not 'their' problem. You modded the guitar yourself without giving them a chance to fix it.I've dealt with thomann for over a decade by now. Returned several guitars and amps (at their cost, not mine!), got a full refund every time, no questions asked. Well, just a 'why do you want to return it', but no hard times. You modding and tweaking the guitar weakens your position tremendously. By modding it before giving the supplier a chance to repair or replace the guitar you actually 'accepted' its current state and now Thomann could say 'yeah but these issues may be due to your own handling'. If they're lenient they can offer a repair but a replacement is kinda out of the question.
The fact that there is no 'back stop' at the end of the neck pocket isn't that much of an issue. It shouldn't be.
But... what you should do right now is measure. Measure the scale of the guitar: is the scale length as it should be (25.5'') and is the 12th fret in the right spot (in the exact middle of the scale, i.e.: 12,75'' from either end. Any significant difference means that the neck or bridge is at the wrong spot.
If the neck is at the right spot anyway, I'd make a little wooden stopper at the end of the neck pocket so the neck won't or can't shift towards the bridge. Plug and redrill the neck holes and set it up again. Maybe even replace the trem. Thats the cheap solution. The 'expensive' version is to replace the titanium rods but I don't think that's necessary at all.
I hope this helps you even the tiniest bit to get the guitar getting under way.
The problem with Thomann and Ibanez is actually not 'their' problem. You modded the guitar yourself without giving them a chance to fix it.I've dealt with thomann for over a decade by now. Returned several guitars and amps (at their cost, not mine!), got a full refund every time, no questions asked. Well, just a 'why do you want to return it', but no hard times. You modding and tweaking the guitar weakens your position tremendously. By modding it before giving the supplier a chance to repair or replace the guitar you actually 'accepted' its current state and now Thomann could say 'yeah but these issues may be due to your own handling'. If they're lenient they can offer a repair but a replacement is kinda out of the question.
The fact that there is no 'back stop' at the end of the neck pocket isn't that much of an issue. It shouldn't be.
But... what you should do right now is measure. Measure the scale of the guitar: is the scale length as it should be (25.5'') and is the 12th fret in the right spot (in the exact middle of the scale, i.e.: 12,75'' from either end. Any significant difference means that the neck or bridge is at the wrong spot.
If the neck is at the right spot anyway, I'd make a little wooden stopper at the end of the neck pocket so the neck won't or can't shift towards the bridge. Plug and redrill the neck holes and set it up again. Maybe even replace the trem. Thats the cheap solution. The 'expensive' version is to replace the titanium rods but I don't think that's necessary at all.
I hope this helps you even the tiniest bit to get the guitar getting under way.
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
oh, one more thing. You mentioned the misalignment of the strings with respect to the fret ends (at the Jem forum) but I don't see anything odd. Some more space for the high E than the low B. seems fine to me?
oh, one more thing. You mentioned the misalignment of the strings with respect to the fret ends (at the Jem forum) but I don't see anything odd. Some more space for the high E than the low B. seems fine to me?
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Base plates' stripped threads is a an easy job to repair. Just did an old licensed FR plate yesterday using V-coil M3 kit. The result was so strong that the screw in the v-coil'ed thread managed to "crush" the saddle.
Now as far the knife edges are concerned I really cannot tell. By the eye, the edge zero II seemed superior by design (inspired by Gotoh), compared to an idea of 1980+ (OFR). How exactly did you measure the hardness of the knife edges of OFR vs Edge Zero vs Edge Zero II ?
BTW the edge zero ii stud :
seem better designed than the OFR one:
Thanx for sharing your ideas.
Base plates' stripped threads is a an easy job to repair. Just did an old licensed FR plate yesterday using V-coil M3 kit. The result was so strong that the screw in the v-coil'ed thread managed to "crush" the saddle.
Now as far the knife edges are concerned I really cannot tell. By the eye, the edge zero II seemed superior by design (inspired by Gotoh), compared to an idea of 1980+ (OFR). How exactly did you measure the hardness of the knife edges of OFR vs Edge Zero vs Edge Zero II ?
BTW the edge zero ii stud :
seem better designed than the OFR one:
Thanx for sharing your ideas.
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Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Thanx,
btw how exactly did I mod the guitar? I dont think I did that. Ibanez gives the multi tool which includes the screwdriver for the neck. I cannot really go through all this for the N-th time. The guys at jemsite freaked out on hearing the story about voiding the warranty by unscrewing the neck.
Besides, if it proven (e.g. by measuring the scale as you said) that the guitar has a problem, the euro law does not care if the item is unscratched or not. If it has fundamental issues it is covered by 2-years guaranty. Thomann/Ibanez had their chance to prove that I damaged the guitar and blew it. . Now, I doubt that any court will be interested in the minor scratches in the back. What Thomann expects is me starting setting up their guitar again, which will not happen. I am just gonna wait for the guitar to prove its strength in the first 6 months. If it breaks within this period, the euro law is more than clear on that. If not, most probably it will never will.
The guitar (supposedly) was in Ibanez/Germany for whatever work they did. If they had noticed anything "bad" by me, I think they would be more than eager to use this against me. So, no, there was no alteration to the instrument. Only a cheap and dirty excuse by Thomann and/or Ibanez that won't work if I go the legal way. Also, Thomann gave absolutely ZERO documentation about the guitar being in any Ibanez service. They did that to erase the "reset" of the historical maintenance of the guitar. Nice trick, but it won't work, since I have all the emails at any legal authority's disposal.
Thanx,
btw how exactly did I mod the guitar? I dont think I did that. Ibanez gives the multi tool which includes the screwdriver for the neck. I cannot really go through all this for the N-th time. The guys at jemsite freaked out on hearing the story about voiding the warranty by unscrewing the neck.
Besides, if it proven (e.g. by measuring the scale as you said) that the guitar has a problem, the euro law does not care if the item is unscratched or not. If it has fundamental issues it is covered by 2-years guaranty. Thomann/Ibanez had their chance to prove that I damaged the guitar and blew it. . Now, I doubt that any court will be interested in the minor scratches in the back. What Thomann expects is me starting setting up their guitar again, which will not happen. I am just gonna wait for the guitar to prove its strength in the first 6 months. If it breaks within this period, the euro law is more than clear on that. If not, most probably it will never will.
The guitar (supposedly) was in Ibanez/Germany for whatever work they did. If they had noticed anything "bad" by me, I think they would be more than eager to use this against me. So, no, there was no alteration to the instrument. Only a cheap and dirty excuse by Thomann and/or Ibanez that won't work if I go the legal way. Also, Thomann gave absolutely ZERO documentation about the guitar being in any Ibanez service. They did that to erase the "reset" of the historical maintenance of the guitar. Nice trick, but it won't work, since I have all the emails at any legal authority's disposal.
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Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Just thinking, it strikes me that you consider upgrading to carbon rods, (which is a MEGA-intrusive mod and unneeded in 99.99% of the cases - how many prestige ibanez's, fenders, gibsons etc... from 1970-- have any kind reinforcement? and still going strong?), while you seem considering seting up a wrongly installed factory shim as ... modding. Ok I know the different contexts that you put the two different situations, but reading it together in the same post it does not make sense. It is hugely disproportinal.
BTW, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_expansion_coefficients_of_the_elements_(data_page) the difference in thermal expansion between Carbon and Titanium is in the range of 17%. Is that a dramatic improvement?
Just thinking, it strikes me that you consider upgrading to carbon rods, (which is a MEGA-intrusive mod and unneeded in 99.99% of the cases - how many prestige ibanez's, fenders, gibsons etc... from 1970-- have any kind reinforcement? and still going strong?), while you seem considering seting up a wrongly installed factory shim as ... modding. Ok I know the different contexts that you put the two different situations, but reading it together in the same post it does not make sense. It is hugely disproportinal.
BTW, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_expansion_coefficients_of_the_elements_(data_page) the difference in thermal expansion between Carbon and Titanium is in the range of 17%. Is that a dramatic improvement?
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Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
To prevent further misinterpretations of the law, (and save any potential Ibanez-Thomann fanboys the trouble), here is the law :
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm
So the fact that I may have scratched one two scratches in the back that any serious automotive shop can fix for 10 euros is not a serious argument. It is a cheap, illegal, irrelevant argument. I didn't ask Thomann to replace the guitar because I did not like it in the first 14 days. NO!! The law says that the product MUST BE UNUSED in order to send it back in the first 14 days. I never claimed that I did not use the product. My claim is that the PRODUCT WAS FAULTY SINCE DAY 1. Although the law favors me since this is within the first 6 months, Thomann/Ibanez were UNABLE to prove that I damaged the guitar or caused the conditions for this damage myself. If they were able they would have given full documentation about it. THOMANN NEVER PRESENTED ANY DOCUMENT PROVING ANYTHING ABOUT THE GUITAR BEING IN ANY WORKSHOP , IBANEZ OR NOT.
I guess this last post will put the final nail on this case, as far as its legal aspect is concerned.
To prevent further misinterpretations of the law, (and save any potential Ibanez-Thomann fanboys the trouble), here is the law :
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm
Guarantees: repairs, replacements, refunds
Free of charge, two-year guarantee (legal guarantee)
Whether you bought the goods in a shop or online, under EU rules you always have the right to a minimum two-year guarantee period at no cost.
This 2-year guarantee is only your minimum right and national rules in your country may give you extra protection. Remember that any deviation from EU rules must always be to the consumer's benefit.
If an item you bought anywhere in the EU turns out to be faulty or does not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace it free of charge or give you a full refund or reduction in price. In some EU countries you will be offered the choice between all four remedies from the outset. Otherwise you will be able to ask for a full or partial refund only when it is not possible or convenient to repair or replace the item.
And bear in mind that you might not be entitled to a refund if the problem is minor, such as a scratch on a CD case. (sic : so a scratch is not considered a problem :fest6
The two-year guarantee period starts as soon as you receive your goods. In some EU countries you must inform the seller of the fault within two months of discovering it otherwise you may lose your right to the guarantee.
Within six months from receipt of the goods, you just need to show the trader that they are faulty or not as advertised. But, after six months in most EU countries you also need to prove yourself that the defect already existed on receipt of the goods, for example, by showing that the defect is due to the poor quality of materials used.
The trader is always liable for remedying the defect and in some EU countries you also have the right to request a remedy from the producer.
The European Consumer Centre in your country can give you more detailed information about your additional rights under national law and can help if you have a problem with goods you bought in or from another EU country.
So the fact that I may have scratched one two scratches in the back that any serious automotive shop can fix for 10 euros is not a serious argument. It is a cheap, illegal, irrelevant argument. I didn't ask Thomann to replace the guitar because I did not like it in the first 14 days. NO!! The law says that the product MUST BE UNUSED in order to send it back in the first 14 days. I never claimed that I did not use the product. My claim is that the PRODUCT WAS FAULTY SINCE DAY 1. Although the law favors me since this is within the first 6 months, Thomann/Ibanez were UNABLE to prove that I damaged the guitar or caused the conditions for this damage myself. If they were able they would have given full documentation about it. THOMANN NEVER PRESENTED ANY DOCUMENT PROVING ANYTHING ABOUT THE GUITAR BEING IN ANY WORKSHOP , IBANEZ OR NOT.
I guess this last post will put the final nail on this case, as far as its legal aspect is concerned.
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Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Problem with Ibanez UV70p Thomann does not want to replace
Sorry dude... But this isnt Thomanns first rodeo. They know what the law is, they know what they can and cant do. The scratches that you caused not scratches that came with it make it impossible to return it as unused. IF the guitar was defective it needed to be returned immediately but instead you chose to try to remedy this yourself by modifying the guitar. They know this, you have even admitted this. At this point they cannot determine was the guitar defective or did you cause it. At the very best you have an uphill battle. Thomann was within the law when they offered to fix it for you. This is actually more than many vendors will do. Many as soon as they have seen you have modded something will tell you you're on your own.
Sorry dude... But this isnt Thomanns first rodeo. They know what the law is, they know what they can and cant do. The scratches that you caused not scratches that came with it make it impossible to return it as unused. IF the guitar was defective it needed to be returned immediately but instead you chose to try to remedy this yourself by modifying the guitar. They know this, you have even admitted this. At this point they cannot determine was the guitar defective or did you cause it. At the very best you have an uphill battle. Thomann was within the law when they offered to fix it for you. This is actually more than many vendors will do. Many as soon as they have seen you have modded something will tell you you're on your own.
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