problem with my sound(s) its just awful

P

PowerOfaDuck

New member
hey guys
My Equipment: Evh 5150 III 50 Watt with Harley Benton(loaded with v30) and a Charvel Desolation with Emgs and a ****y cheap Ibanez from a "Starter packet"
(MY 3. Guitar is distroyed by water Problem caused by my neighbor)

My problem is that i can't find a Sound that i like for high gain metal stuff(more into the technical stuff). i cant help myself :(
I want a sound that is very clear and direct but not to hard in the higher frequencies and so dirty in the mids. I already turnt off presence, cut the treble a bit and had the mids between 6-8(that made it muddy btw) and tried different gain setting.
I want a sound like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7QJssinL1L8 (just posted by Engl)
or like Necrophagist/Obscura.
I have a Boss Metalzone and a ISP Technologies Fetish Distortion.
Btw what I done else:
1. Different stings (10. daddario and Elixir are my choose)
2. Different Picks
3. adjust the Pickup heights
4. adjust the Neck (no buzzing, not to low etc.)
5. Different cable
6. Far away from the amp
7. played the Amp very loud
8. Checked the batterie
9. in my basement are no other electronic divices
10. different Guitars with other Pu
11. Let sombody else play my gear
(And the stuff i forgot, i often play my stuff on the clean channel so i make sure its very clear etc.)
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

You need compression which comes from both the pickups and the amplifiers distortion. Also your technique will play a huge part in how clean it's going to sound.
I can't really give advice on how to EQ unless i'm in front of the amp and also everyones ears are different. Gear wise you have everything you need to get that sound from the looks of it.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

OK, you want a shreddy tone. To get that you typically need to boost the treble and lower the bass. At low volume that will sound fizzy, so it only starts coming together at loud volume. You want passive pickups, probably dimarzio. Check out the D-sonic or Evolution. That tone has a strong mid representation and the EMGs are "hollow" in the middle.

Also, there is a bunch of post compression on that sound. (Using compression on the recorded tone.) You also may need to experiment with a shreddy boost in front of the gain channel. Try an SD-1

Speaker choice is also important. Alot of newer players use V30s, but I find that the GT75 can get that tone with my Peavey JSX.

If I had to guess, he is just posing in front of the Engl but really using an AXE-FX or modeller. The point is that unless you replicate the whole chain, with mics on the speaker, it wont sound like that because at a loud volume you will have sound reflections all over the place. Unless you are playing in a stadium, its not going to sound like that in room. What you can do is put the cab in another room, mic it up and play it through studio monitors.

You are comparing the in-room sound to the recorded sound and not realizing all the "massaging" that goes into making that sound.

The easiest thing for you to do is start experimenting with modelers. Pretty sure the putz in that video is using one.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

Any overdrive pedal in front of the amp.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

Unless there is a problem with any of your equipment it seems like you have everything you need and more to dial in a great tone. I don't know how long you have been playing and don't want to make any assumptions but I think you need to learn how to dial in your tone. I would suggest setting everything very neutral at a bedroom volume and slowly dial in the tone starting with the bass and moving across to the treble. This is the time for you to really listen. Once you have the guitar sounding full and crisp (or where it sound good to your ears) try the Boss Metalzone and the ISP Technologies Fetish Distortion once again dial into the tone. Slowly bring the gain up as you really listen to the dynamics it is adding. It is probably here you will want to make amp tone tweaks. The other method is your BOSS has an EQ. You might want to leave the amp neutral and dial in the tone from the pedal. Neither method is right or wrong.

You have all of the tools you just need to spend more time with them. There are guys here that have been chasing a tone for 25 years and still haven't found it. Be patient you will get there.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

Top-L said:
OK, you want a shreddy tone. To get that you typically need to boost the treble and lower the bass. At low volume that will sound fizzy, so it only starts coming together at loud volume. You want passive pickups, probably dimarzio. Check out the D-sonic or Evolution. That tone has a strong mid representation and the EMGs are "hollow" in the middle.

Also, there is a bunch of post compression on that sound. (Using compression on the recorded tone.) You also may need to experiment with a shreddy boost in front of the gain channel. Try an SD-1

Speaker choice is also important. Alot of newer players use V30s, but I find that the GT75 can get that tone with my Peavey JSX.

If I had to guess, he is just posing in front of the Engl but really using an AXE-FX or modeller. The point is that unless you replicate the whole chain, with mics on the speaker, it wont sound like that because at a loud volume you will have sound reflections all over the place. Unless you are playing in a stadium, its not going to sound like that in room. What you can do is put the cab in another room, mic it up and play it through studio monitors.

You are comparing the in-room sound to the recorded sound and not realizing all the "massaging" that goes into making that sound.

The easiest thing for you to do is start experimenting with modelers. Pretty sure the putz in that video is using one.
Click to expand...

i actually play load sometimes but i want to be in the same room playing without damaging my ears. The higher frequencies should be smother but still present.
im about to get another guitar which i load with Dimarzios (and get a line 6 hd board) but my second guitar with passiv pickups dont make it to.
the sound its to hard and how a already said the mids are so dirty sounding.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

BTW, For the sound you're looking for - start with all the knobs at noon, then slowly turn up the bass, treble, and presence and *lower* the mids. An overdrive pedal will certainly help. You can use the metal zone for that. Stick it in front of the amp with all the controls set in the middle except for gain, start with the gain completely off and turn it up slightly.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

Hey man, have you tried using an overdrive pedal instead of a distortion pedal? A distortion pedal through a high gain amp with active pickups is asking for trouble IMO. Get rid of the metal zone and get a tubescreamer or something similar.
Set your amp to a 'medium' setting where you get a nice crunch sound going. So all controls are on 'middle' or 'noon'. Then set your OD pedal like this: drive all the way down and volume all the way up. This will give a nice compression to your tone and will give you some more drive like you already havent got enough lol :). After this tweak your other controls and take it easy with the gain. You will get your tone this way.

But before you do all this... Take your amp to a tech and let him bias it with fresh tubes. This will give you what you want without any pedals.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

Nightburst said:
Hey man, have you tried using an overdrive pedal instead of a distortion pedal? A distortion pedal through a high gain amp with active pickups is asking for trouble IMO. Get rid of the metal zone and get a tubescreamer or something similar.
Set your amp to a 'medium' setting where you get a nice crunch sound going. So all controls are on 'middle' or 'noon'. Then set your OD pedal like this: drive all the way down and volume all the way up. This will give a nice compression to your tone and will give you some more drive like you already havent got enough lol :). After this tweak your other controls and take it easy with the gain. You will get your tone this way.

But before you do all this... Take your amp to a tech and let him bias it with fresh tubes. This will give you what you want without any pedals.
Click to expand...

I dont use the Pedals anymore, because when i use them as boost i will get feedback as hell and as a single on on the clean channel they sound so artificial...
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

MAn - it's rough to say without being there.

I will say this; when you said presence off and treble turned down….it sounded wrong to me.

The key to smooth, but audible highs, IMO, is a combination of the right pickups (and tone of pickups) with the right EQ settings on the amp, and a very careful adjustment of the guitar tone if you are not using, say an A2P or a Custom Custom….

I will throw out this one piece - learn to play the AMP. I'm also feeling you are using way more gain than needed…..



Regarding the clip: The is a crap-ton of compression on there. And that style is 90% technique to get that tone.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

PowerOfaDuck said:
I dont use the Pedals anymore, because when i use them as boost i will get feedback as hell and as a single on on the clean channel they sound so artificial...
Click to expand...

I owned a 5150, I know how they react. Please follow my instructions:

For the sound you're looking for - start with all the knobs at noon, then slowly turn up the bass, treble, and presence and *lower* the mids. An overdrive pedal will certainly help. You can use the metal zone for that. Stick it in front of the amp with all the controls set in the middle except for gain, start with the gain completely off and turn it up slightly.

It's not the guitar/pickups.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

Nightburst said:
But before you do all this... Take your amp to a tech and let him bias it with fresh tubes. This will give you what you want without any pedals.
Click to expand...

With all due respect this would be a very last resort. I am not flaming NightBurst but most guitarists can not tell their amp needs to be biased standing in front of it, let alone over the internet without hearing it. The poster is also getting a bad tone with both sets of pickups so I would not start tearing the guitar apart yet (even with my dislike for EMGs). As multiple people have said turn everything to 12 (NOON) and start from there. Start with your gain off and slowly dial it in as you get to the sweet spot for the gain start to EQ starting with the bass on the pedal or the amp, your choice. I EQ on my pedals and leave the amp very neutral.

You have some great advice here especially from Dominus who owned that amp. I would start there before buying new pickups, pedals or heading off to a tech.
 
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Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

The Metal Zone can easily get you in that ball park. Back off the gain on the crunch channel or use the clean. With its sweepable mid it takes a bit of learning/experimenting to get the hang if it. Ive found the MZ to be so overpowering it doesnt much matter what pups and so on you are using.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

Wow...I'm dissapointed SDUGF, probably some of the worst advice I've ever seen here :( (with the exception of dom and...ace)

1) You get more than enough compression from the 5150 and those emg's
2) a 5150III at bedroom levels will ALWAYS sound fizzy and fuzzy. My friend has one 4 floors above me, has never sounded good there.
3) Technique, that's why the guy in the video you posted sounds so dam clear and articulate, because he's PLAYING cleanly and with articulation
4) Get that metalzone the **** out of there. An OD pedal can help to tighten things up and smooth out the harshness, but once again, useless at bedroom levels. slamming your amp at vol 1 makes it go to vol 3, slamming it at 8 brings it to 11.
5)The V30 can be a little harsh, stand off axis from your amp
6) Turn your gain down, especially at low volumes, those amps have so much gain on tap, and I find once over-saturated it definitely fizzes out
7) Go hit the woodshed. Seriously, not trying to be a dick here but a few good practice hours will make it sound cleaner than any other pedal/ settings
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

Well sorry, its hard to get that kind of tone a low levels with anything. The metalzone will do it at any level. I like the 5150 alot. But its not the ultimate low vol amp, the same as most other high gain tube amps.
I agree tweaking should be done first and much more time spent on it than most folks end up doing. But if he just cant get that tone at his volume the mt-2 will.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

Metal Zone. Not a fan. :\
Those guys you described use Engls in high gear, and the 5150 is a different sort of tone. Instead of trying to get the 5150 to pretend it's an Engl with the Metal Zone, you should see if you can trade that MT2 in for a Harley Benton Extreme Metal or similar. If you're willing to spend more money, an AMT or Bogner pedal will do ya. You're going to want to have the pedal to most of the heavy lifting on the distortion, with your 5150 doing the final tone-shaping.

I'm not saying the 5150-3 is the wrong amp for death metal; it's just not the same hi gain as Engls put out. I'm not knowledgeable on the exact pedals you'll be looking for, but I'm of the opinion that the Metal Zone is a bad substitute that's sold to young guys looking for "br00tl t0nez"

The Metal Zone is just a mess from my experience. I gave my Beringer knockoff to someone because I couldn't coax a good gain out of if without it farting, fizzing, or going nuts on feedback.
Uh, do you have a noise gate? Get a good one. They'll cure a bunch of your noise and feedback problems.
The big gain pedals that amp makers build is the key here. Blackstar, Mesa, Randall....they make heavy duty tube pedals for stuff like this. Try those out.
 
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Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

I dunno dude without being there and hearing your tone its so hard to say what it needs. But I can say this this thread has some god awful advice in it. The only suggestions I would make would be to go practice and then come back and start from a blank slate and dial in something you like with no preconceived ideas of what it should be. Let the sound tell you where it needs to go not the numbers on the dial. A good tone is a recipe that takes many elements in balance to work out.
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

okay I will tell you about the result,
Right now I have to study for my finals but i ordered a Eq pedal and an overdrive to if it works (if not i can send it back)
and thinking about getting a box with other speaker like v60? and the price from the invader 1 is low right now if the 5150 doen't work for me i will change it for an engl
 
Re: problem with my sound(s) its just awful

The question I have is...does it sound BAD, or is the OP just not getting the tone he WANTS?

Big difference.

Bill
 
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