PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

[GoldenVulture]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

Be it Graphite or otherwise Tone And Resonance are relative.

My Suzuki Hummingbird that I bought back in 79 came with a plastic nut, which decided fairly quickly to break.I went and bought two Ivory nut blanks[It was still available then].
I cut one for the Suzuki and put the other one away for "later".
The difference it made to the Suzuki was enormous.The whole resonance of the strings through the body'/neck ,improved tone and volume and turned it into a great acoustic guitar.
"Later" turned out to be 20+ years later when I bought my Epi Les Paul. I had it re-fretted straight away and had the for "later" nut cut and fitted.
Once again the improvement on tone and resonance, on a solid body guitar; was quite apparent.
I have a Bone in nut in my other electric and while it works well[better than plastic]it doesn't seem to have the same full bodied response of the Ivory nut.

GJ; any idea what sort of "Tusk" it is these days? [Ivory = Tusk]

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

Yes. Definitely bone the hard tails.

What?:cool2:Hahahahaha!!!!!

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

You can tell me that it's the placebo affect, but I hear what I hear, and neither of us can prove anything conclusive or scientific. What I know to be a fact is that I paid what I consider to be a reasonable amount of my own money, and now I love the way my guitar plays and sounds. I'm not seeing the problem here.

Don't take it personal here Jessie.

I'm not saying it's a placebo effect at all. You've completely misunderstood my post. My point was that if you really like what you have and it sounds good to you, don't play with it. I've taken guitars I thought sounded good and due to internet hype, I'd try something else, spend a good deal of money on it and tell myself it sounded better (based on just listening to other people). I've then stripped off the "upgraded" parts and came to realize I liked what it originally was, well, better. There was no point in going for so and so boutique tailpiece, electronics or pickups. Some folks like changing things "just because" and I'm here to say "listen". Listen to what you've got going on first, figure out exactly what's missing or what you're looking for and find parts to do just that.

It's all subjective. I'm not saying upgrading is a worthless idea. Heck, all 3 good electrics I own have some modifications to them, but I did it because I analyzed what I had and knew what to get to make it work right rather than just blindly buying things people online claim always makes things sound better. Ask yourself next time, if your axe resonates right, why add some new super light aluminum bridge to it? The idea is always "it could sound that 5% better", but I think sometimes it's easier to believe something sounds better immediately when you spend more on it. For the right guitar, that more hollow topend might be just the trick, but buy it because you're looking for that tone rather than because "so and so" was spotted using it.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

I guess I've had this wrong ????

I always thought the graphite nut would be a warmer sound than the bone? I was considering installing an unbleached bone nut on my Schecter.

Excuse my French, but I was thinking graphite nut for guitars with tremolo, and bone for the hard tails.

From my experiences, graphite is warmer than bone. I've used graphite nuts to help smoothen out peakier guitars before (ones with a brighter or edgier kinda tone to them). Don't get tricked into thinking graphite is just for trem guitars and bone is just for hardtail. I think folks seem to like graphite because strings can glide easier during pitch bends, but there's nothing to say that there's anything wrong with using a bone nut on a trem guitar and a graphite nut on a hardtail. Erase the stereotypes. Look for what tonal qualities you're looking for and purchase accordingly.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

Always, the goal is some form of "make the guitar sound different in X way, so that I get the sound I want with it when I do Y, so I can go back to playing".

I think that's the most important idea right there and one that can get lost due to just how much gear is out there :beerchug: Get it sounding like you want it to and enjoy the heck out of it!

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

........ but there's nothing to say that there's anything wrong with using a bone nut on a trem guitar and a graphite nut on a hardtail. Erase the stereotypes. Look for what tonal qualities you're looking for and purchase accordingly.

Agreed ........ I don't actually type cast the materials as my post suggests. The last statement in my post was intended as a joke.

That being said, I've never tried bone on a trem equipped guitar as I have always been satisfied with the relative brightness/darkness of the tone with graphite.

 

[beandip]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

I'll stick with dense bone or fossilized ivory. Graphtech came about to help trem users because at the time, there weren't too many guys out there cutting nuts properly. So you could have an "okay" cut nut slot, but still not bind due to the slipping properties.

But that's not really the case these days, with the huge amount of information available and the huge boost in interest in the guitar repair aspect of the music scene.

 

[Dave]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

i have a graphite nut on my strat and i think it sounds amazing. i wouldnt call it dull, still plenty stratty and snappy.

its not a prs and its not buckers so it probably has no relevance what so ever. i also started off with a graphite nut so i have nothing to A/B it with on that guitar.

I do too, but feel the opposite, and agree with Gearjoneser's suspicions. There's a little dullness, loss of brightness too the guitar. I'm a bit reluctant to change it because the guitar has great sustain and is so gol-dang acoustically resonant. I wonder if I swapped it out that I'd lose some of those qualities.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

Personally, I'd go with Corian.

All of the same tonal advantages of Bone, without the fragmentation. Corian is just much easier to work with because it is so much more stable than bone. Tonally, I can't tell the difference between the 2.

 

[jake_xms3_punk]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

i find it hard to believe a little thing like a nut would make that much difference to the tone of a guitar?! i guess i'll have to hear it to believe it i supose!

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

I have to put my neck on the line and say very little...

I know the nuit has an effect on tone in general but I say that a PRS wiht a bone nut will still sound like a PRS and a Les Paul with a graphite nut will still sound like a Les Paul.

Also, Im gonna say this...I am betting that if you switch from a graphite nut to a bone oir whatever else you'll notice little to no difference...it's such a small difference.

As for Gibsonvs PRS tone in ralation to the nut materal there are a million other things that ar emore important when considering the differences between a Gibson and a PRS in terms of tone...

-Scale length
-body size
-body thickness
-single vs double cutaway
-stopbar/tune-o-matic vs wraparound
-neck joint

Just to name a few.

 

[kherman]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

GJ; any idea what sort of "Tusk" it is these days? [Ivory = Tusk]

The Tusq (with a Q) is made by Graphtech.
It is a synthetic material.
http://www.graphtech.com/products.html

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

I've been using fossilized ivory on all of my purely acoustic guitars for the passed few years and really like the tonal improvement. I use it for the bridge pins and saddle and if I had to replace the nuts (which I haven't had to) I'd use it there too. For under saddle peizo equipped guitars I like Tusq better - seems to give a warmer tone when the guitar is plugged in. But for replacing a PRS nut or a nut on any guitar, if I had to replace it I'd go with fossilized ivory - walrus or mammoth. Bone is fine too. Lew

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

I've been using fossilized ivory on all of my purely acoustic guitars for the passed few years and really like the tonal improvement. I use it for the bridge pins and saddle and if I had to replace the nuts (which I haven't had to) I'd use it there too. For under saddle peizo equipped guitars I like Tusq better - seems to give a warmer tone when the guitar is plugged in. But for replacing a PRS nut or a nut on any guitar, if I had to replace it I'd go with fossilized ivory - walrus or mammoth. Bone is fine too. Lew

Do you have a good source for the fossilized ivory bridge pins?

Thinking about trying a set for one of my Martins.

How did they affect the tone of your Taylor?

Thanks!

Bill

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

Do you have a good source for the fossilized ivory bridge pins?

Thinking about trying a set for one of my Martins.

How did they affect the tone of your Taylor?

Thanks!

Bill

I have a couple of extra sets I was saving for a future guitar. They're fossilized walrus ivory with an abalone dot inlay on top. They're about $100 a set. I'd be willing to part with a set. I think swapping out the bridge saddle and bridge pins makes a bigger improvement in the tone than swapping out the bridge pins only, but what I hear is a slightly more articulate tone with more ring and better string to string separation.

Lew

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

I haven't gotten around to it yet myself, but I came across an Ebay pic of someone who changed their McCarty nut to a Tusq nut. To me, it looks so much more appropriate to have a nut that matches the tuners and pickup rings. I never understood why PRS went with graphite.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2006-PAUL-REED-...temQQimsxZ20091028?IMSfp=TL091028196003r24695

 

[beandip]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

Do you have a good source for the fossilized ivory bridge pins?

Thinking about trying a set for one of my Martins.

How did they affect the tone of your Taylor?

Thanks!

Bill

guitarsaddles.com

Bob Colosi makes some good stuff.

 

[Stratman]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

I've personally never been a big fan. I don't like the feel or the look of it, especially that ugly brown/tan/green color it turns after some age.

Bone would be the best improvement you could make in the nut dept, IMO.

Either a nut or a bone....


Now, how would Theodie react to this?


I would bet he would lke both!

 

[doctadre]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

I would say that the nut would affect the open string tone. The Bridge saddles have a much stronger impact on the tone of the guitar. I went from normal saddles on a tune o matic to graphite saddles for a piezo bridge, and the tone lost its high end and "bite". It seemed a little rounder in general.



The differences between PRS and Gibson are all in the construction, woods, scale length, etc. Gibson fans will always think PRS is missing something, and PRS fans will always think Gibson is outdated and an old design.


Takes a balanced mind to find the qualities in both guitar companies and appreciate them!!



Dre

 

[digeratti]

Re: PRS - How much of the tone is the graphite nut?

I discovered the hard way that it is critical to have perfectly intimate contact between the nut and the fretboard for the tone to transfer properly from every string!

I play a 15 year old PRS Custom 22 that I bought used. The previous owner had used heavier strings than the 9s this model originally shipped with and that I put back on the guitar.

Unfortunately, the heavier strings had cut into the nut slots and the lighter strings in the 9 set sounded like a sitar!

Time for a new nut! I had a box of buffalo (as in Waterbuffalo) bone blanks so I took one and fitted it to the guitar and slotted it for the lighter strings. One problem was some strings sounded dead??

So, I ordered a TusqXL replacement nut that was suggested for my PRS ... I think it was made for an Epiphone and didn't look like PRS nuts do? It took a lot of fiddling to get it right but when I attached it I had a similar but different problem ... a dull sounding string but this time it was a different string??

Pondering this, I lowered the p'ups with no improvement and checked the tremolo saddles to make sure they each had both height adjustment screws making good contact but they were fine, too?

Then, I had the idea to press on the treble E string side of the nut towards the fretboard and the dullness instantly vanished until I release the pressure on the nut!

Studying it, I realized that when I scraped off the glue in the nut slot against the finger board a little bit of glue still remained and that was stopping the nut from perfectly contacting the fretboard.

Once all of the glue was carefully removed, and I tried both my bone and my tusqxl nuts, I found that everything sounded fine on every string!

BTW The comment about the nut effecting the tone when strings are only played open seems plausible enough but I found that when the nut wasn't properly seated perfectly against the fretboard it still dulled the string tone even when they were fretted? This surprised me.

And I'm not talking about a huge gap. I tried to measure it with a .005" shim but wasn't able to get it into the slight gap caused by the glue that remained near the center for slot at the top of the fretboard.

As to the sound from the different materials ... graphite, bone and tusqXL ... each was different. The graphite was the dullest sounding with the bone being between graphite and TusqXL and TusqXL sounds almost glass like.

Personally, although I don't like the way the TusqXL nut looks ... wrong shape/wrong string angle ... it does produce the nicest sound for my ears. TusqXL also produces the best sustain by a long shot!

One more thing ... I am used to making bone nuts. TusqXL is much softer material and you might think that would make it easier to work but you'd be wrong! It's easier and much faster to mess up than bone is! I wrecked the first one I worked with ... don't use power sanders!!! The second one had me spooked so I used special vices I normally use only for shaping and slotting the nut, along with very fine files and finished up removing the file marks with 2000 grit wet sandpaper. I used the vice jaws to control exactly how much I was taking off of the bottom of the nut as well as to keep it perfectly square. TusqXL is tricky to work with and since their version of a PRS nut was way too big, I had to take a lot (nearly 1/16th) off both of it's thickness and it's depth before I could fine fit it. Then I had to slightly deepen the string slots because they were pre-made for heavier strings (naturally) so it was a much bigger job than I had planned on! But all's well that ends well and it now sounds GRAND!