PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

[dercross]

hi....
currently I've wired my Seymours in my SG the McCarthy way...

I'm about to get some new pups and wondered if I can wire them the way my PRS CE24 with her 5way rotary switch is wired cos I really like her single coil sounds.... any advices, schematics, tips how I can do that with 2 push/push pots?

 

[Woodcutter]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

bump

 

[dercross]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

well.... thanks.... :dance:

 

[Robert S.]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

Oh gee wiz, you know I do have a day job.....

Yes you can wire SD pickups into your PRS CE 24, I had SDs in my CU 24 for quite awhile and I figured out all problems. If yours is a newer PRS with the pc board attached to the switch, wire the SD green to the PRS black wire location, the SD red and white wires to the PRS red location and the SD black to the PRS white location. The PRS colors on the PC board should go B/R/W B/R/W from left to right with the switch installed in the guitar but they are marked near the holes anyways. Its been awhile since I've been inside a PRS.

You'll need to flip the magnet in the SD bridge pickup. If you need instructions on that someone here will be more than happy to explain it, or you can look for those instructions in the SD FAQs section off of the main page at www.seymourduncan.com.

It is also helpful to twist and tin the wire tips to make them easier to thread through the small holes in the PC board. What I did was to tin the wire tip and hold it to the opening on the face of the pc board and then heat the hole from the rear of the board until the wire slipped through the hole. Since the holes are only big enough to accept one wire, connect the red and white wires and solder them so that only one of the wires (red or white) are fed through the hole on the PC board. It really helps the ease of installation to do this.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask here or PM me.

Robert

 

[Robert S.]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

bump

 

[dercross]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

well thanks errr..... I just wanted to know how I can do that in my SG with a 3way toggle and 2 ppp? the same wiring and splitn parallel stuff like in a PRS instead of the normal split coil....

 

[Robert S.]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

The split coils thing will be just a little tricky. The thing is that the PRS 5 way wiring never has both pickups in HB mode on at the same time like the SG will with the 3 way switch. I'm probably just slightly off but the PRS selections are:

bridge full/outer parallel/inner series/inner parallel/neck full

In order to do that the PRS pickups are magnetically out of phase.

You could use the 2 push pulls to select different split combinations, ie bridge stud/neck post or bridge post/neck stud but thats about it. Another option would be to use one push pull as a opposite coil split and the second push pull as a series/parallel switch and that would give you a simular split to one of the PRS split options as well as the #3 position series/split option as well as both pickups on at the same time in series.

If you had the capability for 4 push pulls you could do the Jimmy Page wiring and get 21 different coil combinations.

 

[dercross]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

uff.... well thanks. I guess I'll ask a luthier to do the job if it ain't too expensive... is it a lot harder to do than soldering it the way I did??? schematics???

 

[Robert S.]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

Adding the push pulls and wiring them is really no harder than any other solder job and with a deceint diagram the job should be pretty easy. First you have to decide what you want from the two push pulls. Your choices are either split coils, a phase switch or a series/parallel switch to connect the two humbuckers together either in parallel (stock wiring) or in series. For the last two options you definately need dpdt push pull pots.

The splits will be easy. You just connect the SD pickups red/white wires to the center terminal of the dpdt switch and then connect the adjacent terminal to either that pickups hot to leave the screw bobbin on or to ground to leave the stud bobbin on. Using the stud bobbin from one pickup and the screw bobbin from the other will keep the guitar hum cancelling when both pickups are on and split. You can split both pickups to opposite coils with one dpdt push pull pot.

A phase switch will change the phase of one of the pickups. Its a cool tone but it's not real practical and it's not one of the PRS options. A phase switch will change which coil is left on when split so you could select either coil.

The series/parallel switch is a little trickier to wire but you'll need that if you want to split both pickups and then link the coils in series, effectively making a humbucker from one coil of each pickup. This is a PRS 5 way option. The only thing is that you need a 3 way switch that has four terminals per side. If you have a Gibson SG then the switchcraft switch in that will work. Other makers use a switch that has a physically tied out side. You need seperate ins and outs for oth sides to make the series parallel thing happen.

If you decide how you want the guitar wired I'm sure we can talk a diagram out of Artie. Personally I'd suggest one dpdt to split both pickups to opposite coils and the other to do the series/parallel thing.

Thats the closest you'll get to the PRS 5 way switching with a 3 way and 2 dtdp push pull pots.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

Just a little bump in the road, but the PRS humbuckers are magnetically out of phase and this allows the series parallel thing to work. If you split the 2 humbuckers to opposite coils and link them in series using the wiring I am thinking about the combination will be out of phase. There may be a way to wire around it using only the 3 way and a pair of dpdt pots but I'm not sure yet. I'll have to look over the schematic and possibly defer to an expert.

 

[dercross]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

Robert.... I have to say you're real nice...

thanks for all the support....


at the moment I've soldered the (gibson) SG that way:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/support/schematics/2hum_2vol_2tone_3way-w-spl.html

with two 500k push-push-pots... to make things clear

isn't that phase thing that makes that Gretsch sound... making the sound thin... I guess that would be a bit over the top in a SG if you know what I mean ...

so I guess I'll stick to the additional series/parallel option..... do I have to get another ppp or do I just have to resolder things so one pot just splits both buckers and then it depends on the 3way which is on(I've got a problem with that in the back of my head... not sure though)

Did I get it:
if I do it that way.... I can do the PRS wiring PLUS the 'normal' splitting?

 

[Robert S.]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

First a quick question. Does your SG have a single volume and tone pot or two volumes and two tones? The reason I ask is that having only two dpdt switches will severely limit your options. If you have four pots in that guitar, using four dpdt switches will get you very close to the five PRS coil options plus another sixteen coil options not available with the PRS wiring.

The problem with the PRS 5 way wiring is two-fold. First the PRS pickups are magnetically out of phase. This is accomplished at the factory by flipping the magnet in the bridge pickup 180 degrees. This makes the stud bobbin (farthest from bridge) on the bridge pickup south polarity instead of north. You can do this mechanically with a phase switch but doing that uses up one of your dpdt switches.

The other issue is your main switching. The PRS 5 way never has both pickups active in humbucker mode and connected in parallel. With a 3 way switch there is no way to isolate both humbuckers in the middle position without another switch so running the pickups physically out of phase is not an option.

So your options are limited with just two dpdt switches because of phase issues.

Your options at this point are these:

Get a modern PRS 5 way rotary switch with the PC board. The plus to this is that your SG will switch like a PRS. The down side is that you will no longer have the std mid position Gibson wiring and you may need to have the switch cavity of your SG opened up a little so the 5 way switch will fit, along with a new cavity cover made. The second part depends on how your SGs cavity is layed out. I have never done this, but it is possible to do if you have a very talented tech. Don't let just anyone route your guitar, this is a job for someone with real skills.

The second option is to add at least one and better yet, two more dpdt switches. You need a dpdt for the series parallel, a second for the phase (to correct the problem created by the series/parallel) and at least one more dpdt to split the pickups but two dpdts to split both pickups individually would be better.

Continued........

 

[Robert S.]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

Your easiest solution is to only go for the inner/outer splits and forget about the "inner in series and split" option found in the #3 position of the PRS 5 way. While it is a cool tone and resembles a humbucker in the middle of the guitar, most people prefer the split in parallel (strat sounding positions 7 and 9) and the full on bridge or neck pickups (positions 6 and 10).

This will be easy enough to wire and only needs two dpdt switches. If you look at the schematic you posted the link to, you have only used one side of the switch. What you will need to do is solder the red/white wires from the neck pickup to the center terminal of the other side of the switch. If you look you'll see the switch diagram has a black line to indicate both independant sides of the switch.

You'll also notice that the lower right terminal of the switch is grounded and that is indicated by an arrow of sorts. The terminal to the left of that you will want connect to the neck pickup volume pot where the neck pickups black lead connects using a piece of wire. If you do that both pickups will split to opposite coils and you'll get one of the PRS Strat sounding positions.

Then you can run wires from the first dtdp switch to the second. Solder wires to the red/white connections to their simular locations on the second switch. Change the ground and hot locations and you'll switch to the opposite coils with that switch. Now you will be able to do the inner or outer coil option. You just can't pull both switches at the same time of the guitar won't have an output signal.

The last thing you will need to do is to rotate the neck pickup 180 degrees in it's mount. If you look at your guitar you'll notice that the outer bobbins are both stud bobbins and you need to get the screw bobbin of the neck pickup to the outside location to get inner or outer and keep the proper phase and wind conditions for hum cancelling.

If you decide to go this route, which is the easiest to do then getting a wiring diagram will easy and i'll call in a small favor to get one for you.


Robert

 

[Robert S.]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

.

 

[dercross]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

oh damn you're so nice...

ok.... my SG has 4 pots I've replaced the Volume pots(is that strange?) with two 500k push-push-pots ... if I will change a tone pot with another 500k ppp will I have to replace the other tone pot as well(probably...)?

I guess this will brighten up my tone...... if I'll go with a RioGrande Texas/BBQ set(Duncans are mostly too trebbly for my SG with an ebony fretboard) will this neutralize the dull n dark sound of the Rios?

should I change the capacitors as well?

I sympathize a lot with the easy way.... this will give me which PRS sound options? what's the problem created by the serioes/parallel switching and will I keep the Gibson middle position this way?

 

[Robert S.]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

Changing the tone pots to 500k push/pulls will not change tour tone. Personally I would wire a 4 pot guitar with the Jimmy Page wiring. That way you can split either pickup individually and both split will be hum cancelling. You'll also get the individual coils linked in series as does the PRS wiring. The PRS wiring offers 5 coil options, the Jimmy Page offers 21. It makes for an amazingly versatile guitar.

You can use the stock capacitors or get something a little fancier. I find the green mylar caps Gibson uses work fine but some folks like the Sprague orange drops better. Just don't use the ceramic disks commonly found all over the place. Most people think they sound less than average.

The JP wiring or the simple splits I described will both leave your guitar funtioning normally until one or more of the pots are pulled. The JP wiring schematic is available at the Gibson site and I'll get you a link, the other diagram I'd have to ask Artie to draw up.

The JP wiring is bad-arse and I have it in a couple of my Les Pauls. You really need to check it out.

A CC in the bridge and an APH-II neck model will warm that SG up nicely and will have plenty of balls to get any job done while retaining killer clean tones.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

http://www.gibson.com/Files/schematics/pagewiring.gif

I don't know why but two connections are missing in this schematic. The red from the neck pickup connects to the #3 on the neck volume pot and the green white wire on the neck pickup connects to the dpdt. Kent, from this forum also has this schematic in diagram form and that might be easier for you or your tech to read.

Let me know.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

The simplest way will give you these options:

bridge
bridge split north coil
bridge split south coil
bridge/neck
bridge/neck inner split
bridge/neck outer split
neck
neck split north coil
neck split south coil

You wont be able to combine the bridge and neck split in series with this wiring. This is the middle option in the PRS 5 way.

 

[Artie]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

. . . the other diagram I'd have to ask Artie to draw up.

Are we just talking about using one push/pull to split the coils, and one more to select inner/outer coils? If so, I have that in my "archives".

Let me know if thats what you're looking for, and if you need more detail.

Btw - here's the Jimmy Page schematic I have. I'm only going to post a link, because this is property of Steve Aloha. (Blueguitar) I think.

Jimmy Page wiring

Steve; if this is yours, and you'ld like me to remove it, let me know.

 

[skyydogg01]

Re: PRS schematic with SG and normal aftermarket pups?

artie that is exactly what i was thinking when i read that. your diagram i mean