Question about Mesa Rectifier series

[guitfiddle]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

Every good amp is just a modded Bassman. :smokin:

This is why you should never, ever, ever listen to people on message boards.

k:
:friday:

 

[elscorcho]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

I think you're talking about power tubes, not rectifier tubes. You don't "push" a rectifier tube in the same way as a preamp or power amp tube. The rectifier tube is completely out of the audio signal path, and performs a very different function than the other tubes.

The rectifier circuit, be it tube or solid state, is responsible for converting AC power from the wall into DC power for the power tubes. The main difference with tube rectifiers is they are slow to "catch up" when the power tubes suddenly need more power, which results in a temporary (measured in milliseconds) brown-out condition. This is what people are talking about when they say "rectifier sag". You notice it mostly when you hit the strings really hard, or you slam the front of the amp with an overdrive or boost of some kind. In practice, it has an effect similar to a compressor. Solid state rectifiers (diodes) are much more efficient and deliver constant power with no sag.

Whether or not a tube rectifier sags is not dependent on the wattage of the amp. It is dependent on what's coming into the amp.



... except the Single Rectifier doesn't have a tube rectifier: it's solid state only, so this kind of invalidates your idea of "pushing the rectifier tube".

Again, I think you're talking about power tubes. I also get the sense that you don't really know much about these amps.



Not necessarily. Mesa amps get most of their tone from the preamp. They have a hot preamp with tons of gain slamming a fairly cold power amp. That's where the Mesa tone comes from, and it's also why they tend to sound better at low volumes than, say, a Marshall of the same wattage. Metal guys, for example, love amps that get all their distortion from the preamp. They need a power amp with tons of headroom to keep things tight under high gain. The other benefit is that your clean channel stays clean even at high volume.

I've seen plenty of guys play clubs with Dual and Triple Recs. They weren't all that much louder than the guys with combo amps. The loudest guitarist I ever heard was playing a cranked blackface Super.

Remember, power rating has a lot more to do with clean headroom than it does volume. A 100W tube amp isn't much louder than a 50W tube amp, and a 50W tube amp isn't much louder than a 15W tube amp.



Again, volume isn't always the goal with a high wattage amp. Besides, Dual and Triple Rectifiers have a switchable rectifier (either tube or solid state), so if someone wants the solid state rectifier, it's there.

A lot of touring pros rely on Recto amps. They're not a fashion accessory. Like all Mesas, they're built to be powerful, reliable pro-quality amps.



What do you mean "non-boogied"?



According to who?

Your post really gives me the impression that you've had very little experience with these amps. Since you seem to be getting what you want from an 18W Princeton, you're clearly not the target audience for them anyway.

Thanks for this post! ....good stuff.....Well-said & informative!

 

[Tom Huff]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

Every good amp is just a modded Bassman. :smokin:

:sword:

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

:sword:

YES PLEASE !!!



James

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

the mesa boogie rectos seem to have a high failure rate out of the box.

WOW . . . NEVER HEARD about that before.

Are you not thinking about the Ibanez Thermion(sp?) or Bugera's ?



James

 

[philthis]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

I've read in several places that the Dual Rectifier series is a copy of the Soldano SLO 100, including on the Boogie Board. Looking at the schematics for both, I'm inclined to agree, at least as far as the preamp goes. The preamps in both the SLO 100 and Recto have the same number and type of gain stages, with the same component values at each stage. The power amp differs a bit between both amps. There are some different component values in the phase inverter and on the Power tubes as well. I don't know how much that will affect the amp's sound, but one thing that differes between the two amps that will effect the sound is the negative feedback loop in the power amp. The Recto can switch off it's negative feedback entirely (this is done in modern mode, IIRC), while the SLO doesn't look like it can. The Recto also has some features which the SLO 100 does not, the one most readily coming to mind is the ability to switch between solid state and vacuum tube rectification in the power amp, which the SLO 100, IIRC, cannot. The differing types of rectification in the power supply of the Recto will affect the sound and feel of the amp.

IMO, from having demoed both Marshalls and Rectos in the store, the Recto and Marshall sound nothing alike. Marshalls have a tight bottom end, plenty of crunch in the highs and upper mids. The bottom end on the Recto can get huge, so much so that it can turn into sludge if you want, and can get fizzier or buzzier in the highs than a Marshall will. If you want a Marshall-like sound with plenty of gain on tap, you should check out the Mesa Stiletto, not the Recto.

I have to agree with this statement. I see people on this forum bashing Mesa's for not sounding like Marshalls and Marshalls for not sounding like Mesa's. I think the way the amp is designed and voiced is the key to trying out what sounds good. the Mesa-stiletto is designed more in the same vein as a classic Marshall than a single or duel recto is. The single or duel recto's are designed to get a different sound alltogather. If you decide you like that tone its all good. If your looking for a Marshall than you may not like the recto vibe. Try the Mesa stilleto or some other amps in the EL-34 tube range. There really isnt one thats better than the other-its all the tone you like and what gets it for ya. Good luck, let us know what you decided on. :bigok:

 

[gnuyu2]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

i'm familiar with the 'sag' saturation. the 'push' i was talking about was the compression result. i also know there may only be a 3db difference between an 18w and a 50w amp. that is why my Princeton sounds louder than my Rivera at half volume. i just pulled two power tubes to get more love out of it at lower volume, which sounds technically 'louder'. you might have me on the single recto being solid state; my buddy has one and went on his word, so boo on me. however, pre-amp gain aside, a 150w tube amp will never get to do want it's meant to do when the volume is on 3 1/2. and, my tech has been working on mesa's for years now, and says that a large percentage of Mesa Boogie 'recto' series heads fail within 3-6 months of purchase, including my buddy's. i was a Marshall JCM800 guy, then i got a Fender Prosonic. i traded it for my Rivera, and i'm happy with that. as far as Mesa's, i prefer the earlier Mark series. i played a side by side w/ a dual recto, and the the Mark(II?) just sang a little more true. ****it, i guess i'm just bias.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

I have not heard of Mesa Rectos blowing up in 3-6 months, though I do know that Mesa struggles, like everyone else of getting tubes of high enough quality to meet their specs.

And, Mesa does offer their 5-year transferable warranty. I don't know of anyone who offers a better warranty than that.

Bill

 

[guitarded]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

I could never get the leads to cut through too good on them. Don't have that issue with the Mark IV, but that is a completely different voicing.

That would be a very ignorant comment.

The Recto is very different from the Marshall style sound in respect to overall balance of tone and power amp response.

Nothing sounds as "big" as a Recto, but there are some differences from a Marshall to achieve that large sound to include a little sag in the low end, a soft midrange centered more in the low mids and razor blade highs (in a good way).

It really shines for stomping rhythms and contrary to some opinions can get great lead tones. Playing lead on a Recto is a little bit of an adjustment just because it "feels" different than most amps, but the Recto circuit can be really expressive at many gain levels.

The differences are noted thousands of other threads all over the internet. The Recto sound is pretty well known.

 

[brisk]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

Recto solo half stack is my go-to amp. I have been playing them with my band over an year.

First I had this perception that recto = nu-metal = mosquito buzzing. After playing over an year and trying this and that, I really don't think recto is mere one trick pony. With an OD pedal and guitar vol & tone pots, you can cover a lot of ground.

Actually, the only failure I had with my recto is the nu metal sound. I don't need it and I don't know how to dial it in.

Being a 6L6 amp, you won't get the Marshall tone but if you want a Marshall tone, why don't you get a Marshall?

 

[ACH91332]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

To me Mesas don't sound as organic. They are bigger and more metal sounding but the way Marshalls are set up they just sound more natural to me anyways. I know Soldanos are based off of hot rodded Marshall circuits but I dunno how it is with Mesas. Mesas traditionally are smoother sounding while Marshalls are middy and crunchy. They have a natural midrange and presence that you can't really EQ in or out. I can make my Marshall sound like a Mesa with a 10 band but to me I don't think that you can do it the other way around with a Mesa.

Thats just me talking though. I've played Marshalls wayyy more than Mesas so I know how to work with them a lot more than I do with a Mesa.

 

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

Recto solo half stack is my go-to amp. I have been playing them with my band over an year.

First I had this perception that recto = nu-metal = mosquito buzzing. After playing over an year and trying this and that, I really don't think recto is mere one trick pony. With an OD pedal and guitar vol & tone pots, you can cover a lot of ground.

Actually, the only failure I had with my recto is the nu metal sound. I don't need it and I don't know how to dial it in.

Being a 6L6 amp, you won't get the Marshall tone but if you want a Marshall tone, why don't you get a Marshall?

The nu metal sound was never buzzy anyway, I don't understand where that came from.
Granted, I'm not a big nu metal fan, but listen to something like And Justice For All and then the debut Korn album and Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory.
The only one that will sound buzzy is the Metallica album, the two nu metal albums actually have a really nice, big, much warmer and more tonally balanced tone. They don't sound fizzy at all. In fact I'd kill to have a tone like the one on Hybrid Theory on my own recordings.

 

[James Rock]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

The nu metal sound was never buzzy anyway, I don't understand where that came from.
Granted, I'm not a big nu metal fan, but listen to something like And Justice For All and then the debut Korn album and Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory.
The only one that will sound buzzy is the Metallica album, the two nu metal albums actually have a really nice, big, much warmer and more tonally balanced tone. They don't sound fizzy at all. In fact I'd kill to have a tone like the one on Hybrid Theory on my own recordings.

Agreed I've heard much buzzier and worse tones then most of the charting nu metal scene.

 

[SlowGroove]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

I actually like the "Korn" tone . . . if i have to mention a more modern 'heavy' tone that i like, it waill most likely be Korn, or the new'est *Rob Zombie album.

Forum member, Some-Dude, gets a absolute killer tone from his mid 90's, 2-channel Dual Rec.


* I do not know if John 5 used any Mesa's on "Educated Horses" though !



James

 

[megacar]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

i'm familiar with the 'sag' saturation. the 'push' i was talking about was the compression result. i also know there may only be a 3db difference between an 18w and a 50w amp. that is why my Princeton sounds louder than my Rivera at half volume. i just pulled two power tubes to get more love out of it at lower volume, which sounds technically 'louder'. you might have me on the single recto being solid state; my buddy has one and went on his word, so boo on me. however, pre-amp gain aside, a 150w tube amp will never get to do want it's meant to do when the volume is on 3 1/2. and, my tech has been working on mesa's for years now, and says that a large percentage of Mesa Boogie 'recto' series heads fail within 3-6 months of purchase, including my buddy's. i was a Marshall JCM800 guy, then i got a Fender Prosonic. i traded it for my Rivera, and i'm happy with that. as far as Mesa's, i prefer the earlier Mark series. i played a side by side w/ a dual recto, and the the Mark(II?) just sang a little more true. ****it, i guess i'm just bias.

Mesa Boogies Rectifiers are not prone to any such failure at 3,6 or any other month. They are rugged, tour worth heads that can take a serious licking and not skip a beat...hence why so many recent platinum selling hardrock or metal guitarist has used one on tour or the studio at one point or another. Tool, Incubus, 311, Foo fighters and Type-O Negative dont use unreliable gear yet they all used Rectifiers for long periods of time. That much isn't opinion, its fact.

Look, Ive owned several Mesa boogies from a Bass 400, Nomad 100 to my favorite, my Rectoverb 50 watt monster. Ive beat the hell out of them on the road and the studio. They are, in my opinion, the best amps on the planet, made by the most friendly down to earth company Ive ever dealt with. Reliable, dynamic and flexible are how Id describe my Recto. You can describe Rectos anyway you want, as long as your description is educated which some of these clearly are not.

 

[PVFan]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

thoughtful 1st post by someone with experience who didn't base his opinion on a sound clip or a catalog description or hearsay

stick around, won't you?

also, who would win in a fight: Supercar or Megacar?

 

[megacar]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

Haha, thanks will do. I just wanted to set the record straight for anyone who may be browsing this forum and thinking about buying Mesa; they are reliable and made by a great company and everything else is subject to opinion.

I don't mind when folks disagree on tone; thats kinda the whole point, having diverse tastes and styles. I can not stand when people make things up because it may deter someone from owning a piece of gear that could last them a lifetime. Cheers!

 

[PVFan]

Re: Question about Mesa Rectifier series

well to be fair Megacar, I don't think anyone was making things up

I've restated my amp techs' opinions here, too, when I didn't have any more personally gathered info to offer. I think that's okay, though, me, I try not to do that sort of thing too often, as I feel it can add to the pool of diluted data for others.

Also, to be fair to the guy who quoted his amp tech, a few years ago there was a flap of Triple Rectos going down. There were a lot of them around here, dropping like flies. I don't remember the issue, but it was addressed, problem solved. But for a while there, Triples at first, then all Rectos had a bad rap at least around here in Seattle as a result, even though the "defect" was only in the Triples. Undeserved, sure. Maybe his amp tech mentioned that to him, this "flap", and thats what he remembered. ***And he's at least played the gear he's talking about.*** We had a guy here with only a little solid-state rig who had all these opinions on just every piece of gear there is in the world. When I pressed him for how he was arriving at his opinions, the answer was "friends at stores," or something equally out of balance with his much larger ideas of what he thought he knew about every amp, pickup, box of bolts, life, etc. Hated that kid.


But

I love reading from the veterans here about their gear when they are answering someone's question, and they really know the answer, too, within their own context (which is usually provided), because an instance of the gear being asked about is sitting there cooling from the gig they just played--even if I don't agree with their opinion. If the info is like that, even if I don't agree with it, but it's coming from someone who uses and struggles with or is blessed by that gear daily, I just add it to my little pool of data, and maybe someday if I keep an open mind I see or hear something in a new way that I might not have without that extra piece of data, knowing it came from someone who invested the time and work to have formed their notions, and then were kind enough to type it down for all to have.


But to re-echo your sentiment, yeah I'm getting tired of a lot of gear opinions coming from people who don't really know the gear. I'd prefer this place to remain the polar opposite of Harmony Central.