Question for Duncan the company
- Thread starter the guy who invented fire
- Start date
- Status
OttoMatick
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
This has got to be the dumbest question of the day. Maybe the lead time between article publication and SD response to request expired? What else would the publicist say?
Other thoughts, who cares what Guitar Player thinks about anything? Do people still read printed publications? Do printed publications have relevance or is the information dated? With the tools available on the Seymour Duncan web site such as tone chart, would a submission of PAF product line pickups even be required to hear tone of a respective SD pickup? What purpose does it serve to hear the subjective opinion of the article author as to which PAF production pickup is best, in what guitar using what amp, does it sound the same in a Strat as a Les Paul etc, is it a SD or DiMarzzio? How can you tell by reading what tone a pickup might produce?
Only manufacturers struggling for market share would submit their products for such an evaluation hoping to gain such market share.
This has got to be the dumbest question of the day. Maybe the lead time between article publication and SD response to request expired? What else would the publicist say?
Other thoughts, who cares what Guitar Player thinks about anything? Do people still read printed publications? Do printed publications have relevance or is the information dated? With the tools available on the Seymour Duncan web site such as tone chart, would a submission of PAF product line pickups even be required to hear tone of a respective SD pickup? What purpose does it serve to hear the subjective opinion of the article author as to which PAF production pickup is best, in what guitar using what amp, does it sound the same in a Strat as a Les Paul etc, is it a SD or DiMarzzio? How can you tell by reading what tone a pickup might produce?
Only manufacturers struggling for market share would submit their products for such an evaluation hoping to gain such market share.
UberMetalDood
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
I'm sorry, and with all due respect, that just seems rather arrogant. Market-share does not necessarily translate to superiority. I doubt most pickup makers are "chasing" Seymour Duncan. They seem to remain content doing what they do and steadily growing as they do their thing. It seems to me that boutique makers are emerging and part of Seymour Duncan's success is attributed to the pervasive interest in pickups that these makers create. If anything, Seymour Duncan should tone down the superiority and show a little more gratitude. Though you post a disclaimer, you do represent the opinions of Seymour Duncan because you are assimilated in the culture of the company.
Great leaders are made by other great leaders. Seymour Duncan came along and created great success by taking off on something other people paved the way for. He certainly did it like a champ and that's why we all respect and love him and his products. However, the things that many other makers do are nothing short of great, and unequaled by Seymour Duncan in their unique contributions.
Though blind loyalists may rebuke the posted question, it's a legitimate question and does not seem to imply any kind of antipathy towards the company. In fact, the OP seems genuinely interested in the reasons and perhaps, as a fan of the company/products, seems a bit disappointed that Seymour Duncan comes off a bit snobbish by refusing to cast in their lot with their market counterparts.
I'm sorry, and with all due respect, that just seems rather arrogant. Market-share does not necessarily translate to superiority. I doubt most pickup makers are "chasing" Seymour Duncan. They seem to remain content doing what they do and steadily growing as they do their thing. It seems to me that boutique makers are emerging and part of Seymour Duncan's success is attributed to the pervasive interest in pickups that these makers create. If anything, Seymour Duncan should tone down the superiority and show a little more gratitude. Though you post a disclaimer, you do represent the opinions of Seymour Duncan because you are assimilated in the culture of the company.
Great leaders are made by other great leaders. Seymour Duncan came along and created great success by taking off on something other people paved the way for. He certainly did it like a champ and that's why we all respect and love him and his products. However, the things that many other makers do are nothing short of great, and unequaled by Seymour Duncan in their unique contributions.
Though blind loyalists may rebuke the posted question, it's a legitimate question and does not seem to imply any kind of antipathy towards the company. In fact, the OP seems genuinely interested in the reasons and perhaps, as a fan of the company/products, seems a bit disappointed that Seymour Duncan comes off a bit snobbish by refusing to cast in their lot with their market counterparts.
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Question for Duncan the company
+1
Fwiw 2, I believe, of the submissions were even butyrate, so SD would have been one of the most accurate pups used. I'm pretty floored myself about this deal. Fender and Marshall still submit amps for shoot outs and they are much larger companies with nothing to prove.
+1
Fwiw 2, I believe, of the submissions were even butyrate, so SD would have been one of the most accurate pups used. I'm pretty floored myself about this deal. Fender and Marshall still submit amps for shoot outs and they are much larger companies with nothing to prove.
Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: Question for Duncan the company
Maybe SD pickups speak for themselves rather than needing Guitar Player to do the talking.
Maybe SD pickups speak for themselves rather than needing Guitar Player to do the talking.
Agileguy_101
Master of his Domain
Re: Question for Duncan the company
I'm sure Duncan has their reasons for not sending in their pickups, and who are we to ask for intimate details about their marketing strategy? Can any of us say with complete honesty that we would do a better job of it than they have?
I'm sure Duncan has their reasons for not sending in their pickups, and who are we to ask for intimate details about their marketing strategy? Can any of us say with complete honesty that we would do a better job of it than they have?
marcello252
Well-known member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
Guys, you seem to defend yourself against an attack, but fact is the OP asked something absolutely normal: a mag is talking about a product and one of the leader in this product making decline the invite, from a market point of view is really strange considering SD is second to none.
I got curious too now.
Guys, you seem to defend yourself against an attack, but fact is the OP asked something absolutely normal: a mag is talking about a product and one of the leader in this product making decline the invite, from a market point of view is really strange considering SD is second to none.
I got curious too now.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Question for Duncan the company
I'm with tubecrunch on this one. Why didn't GP just go out and buy a pickup of each that they wanted? (Like Consumer Reports does.)
I'm with tubecrunch on this one. Why didn't GP just go out and buy a pickup of each that they wanted? (Like Consumer Reports does.)
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Question for Duncan the company
I have serious concerns about the integrity of printed magazines. I wouldn't be too surprised if SD shared them. Especially if they didn't buy enough ads lately.
Personally I also doubt some of the testing standards in many printed magazines.
I have serious concerns about the integrity of printed magazines. I wouldn't be too surprised if SD shared them. Especially if they didn't buy enough ads lately.
Personally I also doubt some of the testing standards in many printed magazines.
Re: Question for Duncan the company
I think tubecrunch had the real answer...
If the magazine wanted to do a fair and unbiased comparison of PAF type pups, why would they request anyone to submit samples. If they have a particular objective in mind for this comparison (which they obviously do, that's what magazines are all about) they would just go out and buy the pups they want to compare.
If they don't have any preconceived objective, and only want to do a fair and legitimate comparison, then they would go out and buy the pups they want to compare.
Either way, it is the magazine's responsibility to obtain the materials/objects they want to test/compare. The very fact that they are asking particular mfrs to submit entries suggests bias...probably, as has been suggested, to their biggest advertisers.
I think tubecrunch had the real answer...
If the magazine wanted to do a fair and unbiased comparison of PAF type pups, why would they request anyone to submit samples. If they have a particular objective in mind for this comparison (which they obviously do, that's what magazines are all about) they would just go out and buy the pups they want to compare.
If they don't have any preconceived objective, and only want to do a fair and legitimate comparison, then they would go out and buy the pups they want to compare.
Either way, it is the magazine's responsibility to obtain the materials/objects they want to test/compare. The very fact that they are asking particular mfrs to submit entries suggests bias...probably, as has been suggested, to their biggest advertisers.
darthphineas
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
Agreed. It was just a question. Leave it to the butt sniffers and nut swingers to protest.
Agreed. It was just a question. Leave it to the butt sniffers and nut swingers to protest.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
It's a good question.
I know if I were asked to contribute a product to be tested and compared in a shoot out like the one GP did, I would only do so if I felt that it would benefit my company.
A shoot out like the one GP did would be of great benefit to smaller, relatively unknown companies because they need the exposure.
I would guess that the Seymour Duncan Company felt that there was little to gain by being involved in the GP pickup shoot out, and so chose to not take part in it.
What I'm curious about is: WHO WON?
It's a good question.
I know if I were asked to contribute a product to be tested and compared in a shoot out like the one GP did, I would only do so if I felt that it would benefit my company.
A shoot out like the one GP did would be of great benefit to smaller, relatively unknown companies because they need the exposure.
I would guess that the Seymour Duncan Company felt that there was little to gain by being involved in the GP pickup shoot out, and so chose to not take part in it.
What I'm curious about is: WHO WON?
Last edited:
idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Question for Duncan the company
My guess would be that logistically it wouldn't make sense for SD to send samples. Companies like Dimarzio make one or two PAF reproductions and SD makes a dozen. So does SD send a dozen pickups for this shootout or only one?
SD PAF Lineup:
Bennedeto
APII
APII Slash
WLH
PG
59
Seth
Ant's
Jazz
Dimarzio PAF Lineup:
36th
Air Classic
My guess would be that logistically it wouldn't make sense for SD to send samples. Companies like Dimarzio make one or two PAF reproductions and SD makes a dozen. So does SD send a dozen pickups for this shootout or only one?
SD PAF Lineup:
Bennedeto
APII
APII Slash
WLH
PG
59
Seth
Ant's
Jazz
Dimarzio PAF Lineup:
36th
Air Classic
Last edited:
DreX
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
Isn't it biased to receive samples in the first place? Who's to say the store bought products are genuinely the same as the submitted humbuckers?
And I know it has been said, but I'll say it again, who gives a **** what type of PAF Guitar Player's staff prefer? They all have their respective strengths and weaknesses. There's no right or wrong answer, and to go looking for one is just sick.
Why is anyone in possession of a guitar magazine? According to my calendar, it's 2014. I have a guitar player magazine with some Pearl Jam tabs from the mid 90's in a box in my attic. That was the most recent issue of such a magazine that I've purchased.
Isn't it biased to receive samples in the first place? Who's to say the store bought products are genuinely the same as the submitted humbuckers?
And I know it has been said, but I'll say it again, who gives a **** what type of PAF Guitar Player's staff prefer? They all have their respective strengths and weaknesses. There's no right or wrong answer, and to go looking for one is just sick.
Why is anyone in possession of a guitar magazine? According to my calendar, it's 2014. I have a guitar player magazine with some Pearl Jam tabs from the mid 90's in a box in my attic. That was the most recent issue of such a magazine that I've purchased.
audiocheck
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
I second this!
There is so much variation in Duncan's PAF line that it would be a shootout on it's own. So for this article, which one would SD send? If the GP didn't have a specific type of PAF shootout, maybe SD as a company wouldn't want to send one that only fits into a specific category? You have to admit that each Duncan PAF serves a specific niche. I mean the Screamin' Demon can be considered a PAF, in its very specific way. Couldn't it?
I second this!
There is so much variation in Duncan's PAF line that it would be a shootout on it's own. So for this article, which one would SD send? If the GP didn't have a specific type of PAF shootout, maybe SD as a company wouldn't want to send one that only fits into a specific category? You have to admit that each Duncan PAF serves a specific niche. I mean the Screamin' Demon can be considered a PAF, in its very specific way. Couldn't it?
Re: Question for Duncan the company
I agree. In fact it could cost them sales if the 'expert reviewer' happened to find that the SD didn't stack up to the other companies which are the 'flavor of the month'. It really is a good opportunity to advance the standing/recognition of the smaller builders, especially to folks who don't have much pickup experience, but I'm not sure how it would help SD at all with the amount of exposure they have already both in print and availability. No disrespect to anyone who has posted but I don't think that it's arrogant or anything like that to pass on a shootout where there is likely little benefit to the company.
I agree. In fact it could cost them sales if the 'expert reviewer' happened to find that the SD didn't stack up to the other companies which are the 'flavor of the month'. It really is a good opportunity to advance the standing/recognition of the smaller builders, especially to folks who don't have much pickup experience, but I'm not sure how it would help SD at all with the amount of exposure they have already both in print and availability. No disrespect to anyone who has posted but I don't think that it's arrogant or anything like that to pass on a shootout where there is likely little benefit to the company.
CTN
The Drama Dude
Re: Question for Duncan the company
Let's look at the logic of the test and the way it was carried out.
Magazine asks manufacturers to send in samples for reviewing in a PAF Shootout. Presumably, the question being asked is, "which of these PAFs are most PAF-y?"
Seymour Duncan looks at their original leesona winders, their stocks of totally authentic coil wire with period-correct insulation, the authentic nickel silver baseplates, the maple spacers, cloth tape, braided shield lead wires, and the decades upon decades of experience creating some of the most accurate PAF reproductions available anywhere, and then proceeds to ask, "why would we even bother? We already make totally authentic PAFs. What is even the point of this?"
At some point, with the sheer range of SD PAFs available, comparing them to the others would induce ear fatigue, the reviewer wouldn't be able to hear anything accurately anymore and the whole experiment dies a premature, stinky death.
It's a pissing contest, and in the end nobody wins, because out of all the builders involved who have any sense of commitment to their craft (and it seems that all of them do), all but one of them will "lose". And what's the point of that? There is none. All of the aforementioned builders make great PAF reproductions (yes, even Larry), and at the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference, not what some d-bag writes in a magazine article.
Let's look at the logic of the test and the way it was carried out.
Magazine asks manufacturers to send in samples for reviewing in a PAF Shootout. Presumably, the question being asked is, "which of these PAFs are most PAF-y?"
Seymour Duncan looks at their original leesona winders, their stocks of totally authentic coil wire with period-correct insulation, the authentic nickel silver baseplates, the maple spacers, cloth tape, braided shield lead wires, and the decades upon decades of experience creating some of the most accurate PAF reproductions available anywhere, and then proceeds to ask, "why would we even bother? We already make totally authentic PAFs. What is even the point of this?"
At some point, with the sheer range of SD PAFs available, comparing them to the others would induce ear fatigue, the reviewer wouldn't be able to hear anything accurately anymore and the whole experiment dies a premature, stinky death.
It's a pissing contest, and in the end nobody wins, because out of all the builders involved who have any sense of commitment to their craft (and it seems that all of them do), all but one of them will "lose". And what's the point of that? There is none. All of the aforementioned builders make great PAF reproductions (yes, even Larry), and at the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference, not what some d-bag writes in a magazine article.
darthphineas
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
with all respect, was it really even a "shootout"? and the suggestion that SD makes totally authentic PAFs based on CTN's criteria is sorta stretching it a wee bit. how are the baseplates made in 2014 authentic? they weren't made in the '50s or 60s. or do you mean they are made to best replicate the baseplates best represented for a PAF? same goes for the coil wire, especially since a lot of the changes in wire has been covered in the ongoing debate over the specs on the JB model over the decades. people have gone over the type of tape and spacers and lead wire until they are blue in the face to say those factors are negligible, if even a factor at all. the Leesona winder means nothing. it's a winding machine. the skill is in the hands of the person winding the pickup. which is also to say that a talented winder can, and will, make great pickups on any machine. like a knife or a firearm or an automobile...it depends on how it's used and who is using it. has anyone done a comparison of the same model that is wound by the same person on a Leesona and a non-Leesona?
I can appreciate that you are loyal to the brand, but it's probably a lot more simple than all the excuses than can be made to rationalize the choice. they declined.
and it is weird, as if you look at the GP website, they have many things about Duncan pickups, so it's not as if it appears that GP has treated SD poorly.
some PAF guys like Duncans. some like DiMarzio. some like Lollar. some like this company or that one. it is what suits their respective ears. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Duncan makes an inferior-sounding product. it just seems odd that they would decline an opportunity for someone talking about their products. what would it cost? the shipping? any publication with merit will not keep them anyway, lest it show bias.
with all respect, was it really even a "shootout"? and the suggestion that SD makes totally authentic PAFs based on CTN's criteria is sorta stretching it a wee bit. how are the baseplates made in 2014 authentic? they weren't made in the '50s or 60s. or do you mean they are made to best replicate the baseplates best represented for a PAF? same goes for the coil wire, especially since a lot of the changes in wire has been covered in the ongoing debate over the specs on the JB model over the decades. people have gone over the type of tape and spacers and lead wire until they are blue in the face to say those factors are negligible, if even a factor at all. the Leesona winder means nothing. it's a winding machine. the skill is in the hands of the person winding the pickup. which is also to say that a talented winder can, and will, make great pickups on any machine. like a knife or a firearm or an automobile...it depends on how it's used and who is using it. has anyone done a comparison of the same model that is wound by the same person on a Leesona and a non-Leesona?
I can appreciate that you are loyal to the brand, but it's probably a lot more simple than all the excuses than can be made to rationalize the choice. they declined.
and it is weird, as if you look at the GP website, they have many things about Duncan pickups, so it's not as if it appears that GP has treated SD poorly.
some PAF guys like Duncans. some like DiMarzio. some like Lollar. some like this company or that one. it is what suits their respective ears. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Duncan makes an inferior-sounding product. it just seems odd that they would decline an opportunity for someone talking about their products. what would it cost? the shipping? any publication with merit will not keep them anyway, lest it show bias.
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Question for Duncan the company
Back in the Nineties, one of the major American guitar magazines did a similar pickup shoot-out and invited representatives of the manufacturers to participate in a debate. That time around, Larry DiMarzio elected not to take part. He also elected not to issue any sort of explanation as to why. In subsequent issues of that title, letters were published asking questions such as, "why no Larry?" and' "what's he got to hide?"
Plus ça change, plus c'est les memes choses.
Back in the Nineties, one of the major American guitar magazines did a similar pickup shoot-out and invited representatives of the manufacturers to participate in a debate. That time around, Larry DiMarzio elected not to take part. He also elected not to issue any sort of explanation as to why. In subsequent issues of that title, letters were published asking questions such as, "why no Larry?" and' "what's he got to hide?"
Plus ça change, plus c'est les memes choses.
- Status
Similar threads
- Featured
- Featured