Question for JCM 800 users

[Lux84]

I have ordered new Marshall 1960 A kabinet for my Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 head. I have listens to samples with JCM 800 connected to 4 Vintage 30 and it kinda doesn't sound so good to my ears. since, the amp itself has a lot of mids, i think it's not the right speakers for my tastes.

But here also i have a question: would JCM 800 have enough mids to compete with those G12-75 speakers with mid scooped character ? I play classic rock, and also some heavier stuff, think about 80's metal and also some newer metal stuff.. but nothing too extreme.

Should that G12-75 speakers bring all of that sounds of amp ?

Should i mix them with two V30's or the amp has enough of mids to cut through the mix without them ?

I am also into that Heritage 30 speakers, but i am curious about low end.

Does G12-75's have better low end ?

I wanted to that amp would be as much versatile as it can be. but, as i said i have listens to many samples of amp recorded with Vintage 30's but the sound wasn't my thing, actually i think it is something to much with that V30 and JCM 800 2204 amps.

So, the main question is, do i need some Vintage 30's in combination with G12-75's or G12H-30's in my cab to sound good?

I already know that 4x12 with four Vintage 30's in isn't my thing. But combinations ?

 

[DankStar]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

is this the 800 you commissioned someone to build? have you heard it through anything yet? curious to see how it turned out. every few weeks I look at the yeti and listen to clips - seems awesome.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

It is still in the process of building, but i think it's gonna be finished in about two or three months. I have heard just some internet clips. I think it's gonna sound awesome. It's a single chanell 50 watt JCM 800 head, a replica of old mid eighties 2204 JCM's. Built in Europe. Well, to be honest i am searching for that british early metal stuff.. like judas priest, maiden and saxon. I want to get that Saxon - Crusader sound. It's just awesome song. Sounds incredible to my ears.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

I have ordered new Marshall 1960 A kabinet for my Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 head. I have listens to samples with JCM 800 connected to 4 Vintage 30 and it kinda doesn't sound so good to my ears. since, the amp itself has a lot of mids, i think it's not the right speakers for my tastes.

But here also i have a question: would JCM 800 have enough mids to compete with those G12-75 speakers with mid scooped character ? I play classic rock, and also some heavier stuff, think about 80's metal and also some newer metal stuff.. but nothing too extreme.

Should that G12-75 speakers bring all of that sounds of amp ?

Should i mix them with two V30's or the amp has enough of mids to cut through the mix without them ?

I am also into that Heritage 30 speakers, but i am curious about low end.

Does G12-75's have better low end ?

I wanted to that amp would be as much versatile as it can be. but, as i said i have listens to many samples of amp recorded with Vintage 30's but the sound wasn't my thing, actually i think it is something to much with that V30 and JCM 800 2204 amps.

So, the main question is, do i need some Vintage 30's in combination with G12-75's or G12H-30's in my cab to sound good?

I already know that 4x12 with four Vintage 30's in isn't my thing. But combinations ?

H30s, H30/Greenback combo, H30/g12-65 combo, g12-65's, CL80's

...not the 75s. they're scooped and gonna fight your amp every inch of the way, pulling it in a totally non-jcm direction. for classic ORIGINAL jcm 800 tones, THE speaker that shipped with it is the Rola Celestion g12-65 (reissued as Heritage g12-65), and those things really do sound hella cool with JCM-type amps, they've got that lowmid slightly honky ooomph thing going, where you're not even sure whether youre hearing it or feeling it in your gut & bones, but it sure as heck is niiiiice

PS did you say 50 watt? heck, get ANY celestion, in any combination of two or more. none of em will be as counterproductive as the gt75, and any of em paired with a v30 will be a lot more interesting than a lonely v30 (these things really are better paired, and better yet paired with something that ain't a gt75)

PPS i think i just figured something out... you do know that the 1960A on the market today is the jcm900 (NINE hundred) cab, right? not at all the 800 cab, not even close, not even remotely related rly

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Ok, i'll see the tonal differences when i'll actually have that head builded.

I am gonna buy some of these speakers and then i'll see what i like the best. I noticed there on internet are a lot of JCM 800 users who likes or dislikes different speakers from one to another. so i think it's a big personal choice.

yes, i know that cab wasn't actually designed for JCM 800. But i get it at relative cheap price, so i order it. I see that the speakers for JCM 800 have a lot to do with the right speakers...

I wish i know that before.

But still i have a lot of options on selling some G12-75 ( if i won't like it ) and buy some Heritage ones to swap them in that cab, and then just see if i like it, right ?

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Ok, i'll see the tonal differences when i'll actually have that head builded.

I am gonna buy some of these speakers and then i'll see what i like the best. I noticed there on internet are a lot of JCM 800 users who likes or dislikes different speakers from one to another. so i think it's a big personal choice.

yes, i know that cab wasn't actually designed for JCM 800. But i get it at relative cheap price, so i order it. I see that the speakers for JCM 800 have a lot to do with the right speakers...

I wish i know that before.

But still i have a lot of options on selling some G12-75 ( if i won't like it ) and buy some Heritage ones to swap them in that cab, and then just see if i like it, right ?

In most rich countries, 75s are the most unsellable and cheap speakers out there...have seen loaded 412 cabs with intact 75s for $125 obo here

Simply too many of them out there, too standard. (in countries where few pro cabs exist, though, these things fetch good money)

Occasional newbie WILL pay for a used 1960a at mesa prices, but not for speakers cuz noobs fear DIY work and dont know how to install em

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Also, 1960a's are fragile - wont break, but scuff easy & cloth tears ($100 for a new CLOTH from marshall, haha)...opened one up, construction is ok but nothing special, average. Any real plywood cabinet w/ metal grille will be built same or better, plus be a lot more durable. And if carpet topped, unscratchable.

AND heritages cost $165/ea...while a marshall cab with 4 heritages used averages 320-350. So buying heritages after unloading 75s will get you a now-used cab for the price of 3-4 used heritage cabs average, or 5-6 of em if you count lucky scores


PS i know youre thinking its cork sniffy bs and marshall is marshall, reacted same way less than a year ago when a metal oldtimer laughed at my cab, then a stock 1960a, and told me the ones on stages all over the world are either reloaded or unplugged "dummy stacks" used by big bands for teh br00tal lookz (soo silly - but true! many bands use like 18 fake stacks onstage, names like Slayer coming to mind especially)

...its like guitar pickups, huuuuge changes. And the 1960a is NOT the R9 of that world, it's their Epi LP or Mexistrat - typical, but boooring and kinda disappointing without upgrades. Strangely, it DOES work well woth some stuff, but its far better suited to pair with Rectifiers, 6505s, and TSLs - not oldskool Marshall heads

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Online clips can be a guide, but don't assume you won't like something because of a youtube example.

Only your ears can decide. V30's go great with Marshalls, as do many other speakers. They also mix nicely with G12T-75's due to their EQ difference. Those two speakers are slightly louder than 65's and Greenbacks, but you can really mix whatever you want. Or, just go with 2 or 4 of the same.

I'm very familiar with all Marshalls, and the JCM 800's mids seem better with middy speakers and MID on 5, than with G12T-75's and the MID on 7.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

I think i am gonna mix 2 heritage 30's and 2 vintage 30's in that cab. but first i want to try G12-75 and Vintage 30 mix as well. and that 1960 A cab is in very good condition, in fact, it's only one year old. i think i am gonna rewire it and do some other recquirable, cheap mods also.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

I just picked up a Splawn Pro Mod, which has two modes that do the modded JCM 800 thing, and it does them very well. I ran it through my Eminence Swamp Thang & Texas Heat speakers. It sounded great. Last night I was running it through the Splawn cab I bought with it that has Splawn Small Block speakers, which are Greenback type speakers. It sounded decent, but not quite right, although in 1st gear (the modded Plexi mode) it was nailing AC/DC type tones through those speakers. They just didn't sound quite right with high gain to my ears.

The next speaker combo I want to try out is a mix of Eminence Governor and Man O War speakers. Here's a the youtube clip that turned me on to them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PPwnFRRIa8

And here's tye same guy demoing the Swamp Thang and Texas Heat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UutsVW23ksk

And I know you asked about Celestions, and I used to he a Celestion guy myself, but when I found out that alot of their speakers are now made in China I started looking elsewhere. Eventually I settled on Eminence for my favorite speakers. ymmv.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

I just picked up a Splawn Pro Mod, which has two modes that do the modded JCM 800 thing, and it does them very well. Tonight I ran it through my Eminence Swamp Thang & Texas Heat speakers. It sounded great. Last night I was running it through the Splawn cab I bought with it that has Splawn Small Block speakers, which are Greenback type speakers. It sounded decent, but not quite right, although in 1st gear (the modded Plexi mode) it was nailing AC/DC type tones through those speakers. They just didn't sound quite right with high gain to my ears.

The next speaker combo I want to try out is a mix of Eminence Governor and Man O War speakers. Here's a the youtube clip that turned me on to them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PPwnFRRIa8

And here's tye same guy demoing the Swamp Thang and Texas Heat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UutsVW23ksk

And I know you asked about Celestions, and I used to he a Celestion guy myself, but when I found out that alot of their speakers are now made in China I started looking elsewhere. Eventually I settled on Eminence for my favorite speakers. ymmv.

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

I would go with a mix of Vintage 30s and G12H-30s. They complement each other really well and work great with Marshalls.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Jcm800 user here.

I've got cabs with G12T-75's and V30's. V30's can definitely be a bit bright or harsh with that amp, but I find they blend well with the G12T-75's. for single cab applications I usually bring out the 75 loaded one.

The 75's definitely don't "fight" the amp, but I can see the point some are trying to make. I myself am looking into trying 65's as they seem more for what I'm going for. Adieu is being a little extreme and not totally correct. My 1985 (jcm800) 1960B has its origional 75s in it, only the early ones came with the 65's. And there's no dimension difference between that and my jcm900 cab. I will admit it sounds better, but I think thats mostly due to the more broken in speakers and it having no casters. Keep in mind both my 1960B's with 75's have English made celestions.

Advice: Try it out with different speakers. I'm sure you have some friends with different cabs/ speakers (most likely V30's and 75's). Although differences in cab brand/ dimensions will make a difference, you'll get a good idea.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Jcm800 user here.

I've got cabs with G12T-75's and V30's. V30's can definitely be a bit bright or harsh with that amp, but I find they blend well with the G12T-75's. for single cab applications I usually bring out the 75 loaded one.

The 75's definitely don't "fight" the amp, but I can see the point some are trying to make. I myself am looking into trying 65's as they seem more for what I'm going for. Adieu is being a little extreme and not totally correct. My 1985 (jcm800) 1960B has its origional 75s in it, only the early ones came with the 65's. And there's no dimension difference between that and my jcm900 cab. I will admitit sounds better, but I think thats mostly due to the more broken in speakers and it having no casters. Keep in mind both my 1960B's with 75's have English made celestions.

Advice: Try it out with different speakers. I'm sure you have some friends with different cabs/ speakers (most likely V30's and 75's). Although differences in cab brand/ dimensions will make a difference, you'll get a good idea.

Im just peeved Marshall managed to slap what amounts to a $1k tax on newbies. They have some good amps and lots of history, but the brand value and image of the "marshall stack" come from stuff wholly unrelated to the 1960a.... Heck, been to GC today, they got the usual 1960a @ 899+tax, and next to it clearance new 6505 cabs @ 199, v30 loaded line 6 new @ 299 (bad image, but hey, v30s & value for money, freakin as-new SOLDANO with some snakeskin thing going on @ 499....even eternally overpriced MESA @ 799.

Its just not justified. Its selling on reputation of Greenback, H30, V30 and 65-loaded cabs that created the "marshall stack" image long before the gt75 was ever invented - and noobs actually buy it CAUSE its pricey thinking they're going for the legendary best...marketing tricks/ BAIT & SWITCH 101 (well no, ADVANCED bait n switch 202 now that theyre sneakily made in china!) And that "voiced like a 75w greenback" thing in the marketing literature is a blatant lie.

If you can get it for 200 used, might be a whole different story (though i got mine "free" in lieu of $100 and still didnt find it worth keeping, honest truth...made a profit on it, yeah, but was only really looking to fund something else, anything else).

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

The only difference between 900 and 800 cabs themselves is possibly the quality of the birch plyewood and that the 900s have that 2x12 or 4x12 switching. Marshall model 1960 cabs since the year 1969 have all been the same design outside of that.

I'd consider H30s all the way around to start out off with if you can. You might find your self done at that point. If you have to buy a new Marshall cab with speakers already in it, your options are probably going to be V30s or G12T75loaded cabs. Get the G12T75 cab and mix in some 65s or GBs. Or get the V30 version and mix in some H30s.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Ok, i made i plan. that cab should sounds killer.

1. ) I am gonna put in two V30's in x patern with two G12-75. sell the other two G12-75. try it first with that combination.
2. ) Mods.. i think i'll rewire it. this is cheap. i'll put metal handles at sides and change plastic inputs with metal ones.
3. ) Then i'll get two Heritage 30's and replace it in G12-75 two positions. try it if i like this better.
4. ) Decision, two G12-75 or two G12H30 in combination with two Vintage 30's. i'll keep two G12-75's at home in the case if i got myself more hi gain amp later like some peavey 6505.

The thing is.. i have two V30 and one Heritage 30 already in my two practice 5 to 15 watts valve amps. so i can pull the speakers out of them and try it before i decide. so in that particular case i only need one Heritage 30, but i can sell two G12-75's and buy that Heritage 30 speaker with that money. so i already have all of that speakers combinations to try and test them side by side:

2x G12-75 & 2x V30

and

2x G12H30 & 2x V30.

And if i mod the cab a for a little money, i have the solid cabinet for band rehearsals, studios or gigs....

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Im a JCM 800 users as well, but very Naive to speakers. So, Im not gonna give any advice, but watch and learn. I run mine thru either my Carvin 4x12 with their British series speakers or my 2x12 which has celestions I believe, but cant recall what models. Both sound good to me, but I may be missing out on better tone.. Ive heard good things about some of the clone amps. Anxious to hear how yours comes out!

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Ok, i made i plan. that cab should sounds killer.

1. ) I am gonna put in two V30's in x patern with two G12-75. sell the other two G12-75. try it first with that combination.
2. ) Mods.. i think i'll rewire it. this is cheap. i'll put metal handles at sides and change plastic inputs with metal ones.
3. ) Then i'll get two Heritage 30's and replace it in G12-75 two positions. try it if i like this better.
4. ) Decision, two G12-75 or two G12H30 in combination with two Vintage 30's. i'll keep two G12-75's at home in the case if i got myself more hi gain amp later like some peavey 6505.

....

Sounds good.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Ok, i made i plan. that cab should sounds killer.

1. ) I am gonna put in two V30's in x patern with two G12-75. sell the other two G12-75. try it first with that combination.
2. ) Mods.. i think i'll rewire it. this is cheap. i'll put metal handles at sides and change plastic inputs with metal ones.
3. ) Then i'll get two Heritage 30's and replace it in G12-75 two positions. try it if i like this better.
4. ) Decision, two G12-75 or two G12H30 in combination with two Vintage 30's. i'll keep two G12-75's at home in the case if i got myself more hi gain amp later like some peavey 6505.

The thing is.. i have two V30 and one Heritage 30 already in my two practice 5 to 15 watts valve amps. so i can pull the speakers out of them and try it before i decide. so in that particular case i only need one Heritage 30, but i can sell two G12-75's and buy that Heritage 30 speaker with that money. so i already have all of that speakers combinations to try and test them side by side:

2x G12-75 & 2x V30

and

2x G12H30 & 2x V30.

And if i mod the cab a for a little money, i have the solid cabinet for band rehearsals, studios or gigs....

On reusing combo speakers: check ohmage....many combo speakers are 8 ohms, while 4 &16 ohm mono & switchable stereo cabs (4/16 mono & 8+8 stereo like the 1960a) use 16 ohm speakers. Cant mix & match unless you want a 3-speaker cab, gotta have ALL speakers @ same ohms.

Also, should you choose to redo it in 8 ohm speakers, you'll HAVE TO wire it for 8 ohm mono and 4+4 stereo (no possible 16 ohm combination of four 8ohm speakers), making it incompatible for full stack use with just about anything else...

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

I would go with a mix of Vintage 30s and G12H-30s. They complement each other really well and work great with Marshalls.

I run a Jet City, which is a Marshallesque design, through the Eminence versions of these speakers, and it sounds fantastic. For the record, they are the Governor and the Wizard. Seriously, the Wizard fixed everything I disliked about a pair of Governors. It filled it out through the whole spectrum and killed off some of the high-end harshness.