Question for JCM 800 users

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Hm, those are very cheaper than celestions.. and made in us. but i heard a lot of people complaining about eminence sound. they said they better like celestions and stuff. i am thinking of throwing celestions out of my two combos and mount them in cab. and than i can try two or three eminences in those combos. yeah both combos have the 16 ohm speakers, so nothing i should worry about. well, there'll be lot of stuff to try in the first half of new year

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

There's also WGS, even cheaper afaik... & also USA

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Then i'll try to find those WGS. Today my 1960 Angled Cab Arrived. It is in really good condition. I have a question of mixing old and new speakers.. My Vintage 30 is well broken in, and Heritage 30 too, so is there gonna be some problem ? i am thinking of getting this two speakers mixed in the top, and then the new ones, not broken in on the bottom. is this ok ?

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Then i'll try to find those WGS. Today my 1960 Angled Cab Arrived. It is in really good condition. I have a question of mixing old and new speakers.. My Vintage 30 is well broken in, and Heritage 30 too, so is there gonna be some problem ? i am thinking of getting this two speakers mixed in the top, and then the new ones, not broken in on the bottom. is this ok ?

Ok - always... But breakin just makes things better

Try playing music CDs/mp3/radio for a day at high volume through new speakers. Use a solid state amp (home audio receiver, combo/head with aux input, etc) that supplies nearly or exactly full rated wattage @ correct ohms. OR buy prebroken-in new speakers.

OR buy used. cheaper too, got my v30/c90 pair for 130, less than a single new chinese speaker after tax and shipping... $75 for a v30, worn in heavily but intact, possibly british but not sure, battered sunn japan 1x12 monitor thrown in for free. And $55 for a "used" minty MESA celestion black shadow c90 (definitely UK, absolutely awesome) that seems to have been replaced at purchase from a new cab...

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

I'll try playing through that Lead 1960 cab with my Blackstar HT-5, and Blackheart Handsome Devil. I have the Boss RC-3 Looper pedal, so i can play with some backing tracks through amps. Damn, it's huge for my room

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

I'll try playing through that Lead 1960 cab with my Blackstar HT-5, and Blackheart Handsome Devil. I have the Boss RC-3 Looper pedal, so i can play with some backing tracks through amps. Damn, it's huge for my room

Wrong idea. Probably cannot break in 300w of speakers with 5 watts of amp. Try "isolating" the cab by wrapping the outside with thick blankets winter coats etc, and breaking in speakers 1 or 2 at a time, depending on what wattage stereo you can find to attach & how well you can mute em with the "isolation"

 

[NecroPolo]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Wrong idea. Probably cannot break in 300w of speakers with 5 watts of amp. Try "isolating" the cab by wrapping the outside with thick blankets winter coats etc, and breaking in speakers 1 or 2 at a time, depending on what wattage stereo you can find to attach & how well you can mute em with the "isolation"

I second that. You can use your 5W amp for recording and having fun later (maybe it will bring as good or better tonal results than monster amps) but breaking in the new speakers it's better to play them at power.

Good advices above, music playback for a day or two is one of the most harmless methods. Just don't try subs with it.

As a past JCM800 user I can say that my battered Laney cab with Greenbacks sonically outsounded any 1960 boxes, loaded with anything. V30 speakers were harsh, T75 speakers were too scooped. Consequently, V30 speakers sounded awesome when mic'd (more open, modern rock), T75 speakers were awesome for thrash metal and twangey cleans. Greens sounded warm and organic, very '70s. Not always the best choice before a mic for any style but always a winner onstage and just playing for fun.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Well, the 5 watts of valve power are twice as loud as 50 watts. I tried it yesterday with Blackstar HT-5 combo, and the sound... was better on cleans and for some reason.. i open it to full volume and gain and i just, cannot believe.. the distortion tones were 100% better than with my Orange PPC 112 loaded with Vintage 30. for the fact i started playing fight fire with fire, and battery the songs i wasn't even been able to achieve at that good sound with just one Vintage 30. and without any boost. it just sounds more like on the record. huge, ballsy, razor shaped tone through my room. of course i have to open it to full. i don't know but maybe are something i like about those G12T-75. the Vintage 1x12 compared to that speaker.. was just anoying bee, it even produces less bass and less chest palm distortion than that 1960 Lead with four of that G12T-75 compared. but, with that setup everything that was cool to chapter was some really beautiful cleans and huge lowend razor shaped thrash metal distortion. but nothing in between that sounded good... I'll try it with my Blackheart at 15 valve of power how it will sound and report here, because HT-5 is more modern rock-metal sounding little beast, and BH-15 is more of a low to medium gain vintage amp with different voicing.. don't know how it will sound with JCM 800 2204, but i will definately try it with those G12T-75s for first ! i will try replace that Vintage V30 speaker with G12T-75, just to see if how it will sound alone. but for first, thanks for advice Adieu, i will set the cab to stereo mode. but, as i said it's a definatelly huge and more distorted sound than just one V30 alone !

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

The v30 - alone, especially when underpowered - sounds like crap to me too

HOWEVER....it complements other stuff well. In band situations it sits well with other guitars, drums, bass, and vocals, while on guitar alone, it is does AMAZING stuff paired with other speakers. I do looooove it with a Black Shadow C90 (mesa oem celestion classic lead 80). Makes the cleans all sparklie, and higain stuff just becomes so 3D. Like doubletracking and panning - without doubletracking OR panning.

Well, the 5 watts of valve power are twice as loud as 50 watts. I tried it yesterday with Blackstar HT-5 combo, and the sound... was better on cleans and for some reason.. i open it to full volume and gain and i just, cannot believe.. the distortion tones were 100% better than with my Orange PPC 112 loaded with Vintage 30. for the fact i started playing fight fire with fire, and battery the songs i wasn't even been able to achieve at that good sound with just one Vintage 30. and without any boost. it just sounds more like on the record. huge, ballsy, razor shaped tone through my room. of course i have to open it to full. i don't know but maybe are something i like about those G12T-75. the Vintage 1x12 compared to that speaker.. was just anoying bee, it even produces less bass and less chest palm distortion than that 1960 Lead with four of that G12T-75 compared. but, with that setup everything that was cool to chapter was some really beautiful cleans and huge lowend razor shaped thrash metal distortion. but nothing in between that sounded good... I'll try it with my Blackheart at 15 valve of power how it will sound and report here, because HT-5 is more modern rock-metal sounding little beast, and BH-15 is more of a low to medium gain vintage amp with different voicing.. don't know how it will sound with JCM 800 2204, but i will definately try it with those G12T-75s for first ! i will try replace that Vintage V30 speaker with G12T-75, just to see if how it will sound alone. but for first, thanks for advice Adieu, i will set the cab to stereo mode. but, as i said it's a definatelly huge and more distorted sound than just one V30 alone !

Actually, afair, about HALF as loud... 10x watts ~= 2x volume = +10 db

OR SO IVE BEEN TOLD???

...but wattage is somehow different than volume, for breaking in you need to throw lotsa watts at the speaker, not have it make loud noises in yhe audible spectrum. Heck, there might even be ways of doing that with frequencies you cant hear all that well...or not. Im just speculating on this part.



PS stereo mode? As in breaking in two speakers at a time thru 8ohm one side only connections? Still gonna need 50-100 watts thrown at it, though thats easier to find than 200+ for the whole thing... I think you misunderstood my useage of "a stereo" = a home audio amplifier from a component system...like a receiver, you know, the ones with radio + inputs for cassette/cd/dvd/aux/etc devices? Think something made by the likes of Onkyo Akai Panasonic Sony Aiwa Pioneer etc. - might have come with your TV speakers and DVD player in a 5.1/7.1 dolby system, or might be old surround sound from the 70s/80s - 2.0 dolby, two speakers, hence "a stereo" in short

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

The best way to break in speakers is to bring it to a few jams...I don't see the point in pumping music through them just so they sound better after X amount of hours. Break them in by PLAYING YOUR GUITAR, I bet that will make them sound better in more ways then one.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

I am using two different pickups in two different guitars. SH6 Distortion in my SG, and SH5 Custom in my LP. i tried it with both guitars and SH5 Custom definately wins for that thrashy metal sound with Blackstar HT-5 amp and Marshall Lead 1960 cab. But it only sounds good enough when i had amp volume set on full and gain on full..

I have tried it with all 4 speakers in mono on 16 ohm, and then the left two speakers in stereo mode on 8 ohm.

Next thing, I will try my Blackheart 15 Valve amp through it with volume and gain on full. i am just waiting on situation that there will nobody be at home except me, so i can turn it on full, to find out how it will sounds with 15 watts of valve power and some distortion pedal as a boost and i think that there i will have to hit noise gate pedal hard.

One more thing to ask.. i was thinking.. when my JCM 800 head will be build..if i let two G12T-75s on the left side of cab and add two Greenbacks on right side of amp, i have two options with switch to left stereo or right stereo.. first is to chose left side of the cab ( two G12T-75's ) for some hi gain metal stuff, and then right side of the amp ( two Greenbacks) for some bluesy vintage rock stuff. anyone that tried this ? if this is possible then i can have enough versatile combination to play both of different music styles at band rehearsals or in studio with just a help of stereo switch to each side, right ?

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

I am using two different pickups in two different guitars. SH6 Distortion in my SG, and SH5 Custom in my LP. i tried it with both guitars and SH5 Custom definately wins for that thrashy metal sound with Blackstar HT-5 amp and Marshall Lead 1960 cab. But it only sounds good enough when i had amp volume set on full and gain on full..

I have tried it with all 4 speakers in mono on 16 ohm, and then the left two speakers in stereo mode on 8 ohm.

Next thing, I will try my Blackheart 15 Valve amp through it with volume and gain on full. i am just waiting on situation that there will nobody be at home except me, so i can turn it on full, to find out how it will sounds with 15 watts of valve power and some distortion pedal as a boost and i think that there i will have to hit noise gate pedal hard.

One more thing to ask.. i was thinking.. when my JCM 800 head will be build..if i let two G12T-75s on the left side of cab and add two Greenbacks on right side of amp, i have two options with switch to left stereo or right stereo.. first is to chose left side of the cab ( two G12T-75's ) for some hi gain metal stuff, and then right side of the amp ( two Greenbacks) for some bluesy vintage rock stuff. anyone that tried this ? if this is possible then i can have enough versatile combination to play both of different music styles at band rehearsals or in studio with just a help of stereo switch to each side, right ?

You can change the wiring to do stereo jacks for top and bottom....or for xpattern diagonals. Or add more jacks and switches for other configurations (single speakers, etc). The 1960a is a rearloader, making the wiring easily accessible.

Having different speakers right and left on a 212 is fine for lack of other options, but on a 412 conventional thinking is to mix speakers A and B as AA top/ BB bottom or AB top/ BA bottom for balance.

If you want alternate two speaker options, best add additional individual jacks for each speaker (your amp has two speaker outs to power a full stack, and switchable 4/8/16 impedance, right?) or switch around what pairs with what in 8+8 mode....I'm half asleep and not 100% sure right now where in the circuit to add a switch to disconnect the existing wiring to prevent it from interacting with use of combinations of individual jacks (or whether that is necessary, and if it is, cant be done by selecting one of the existing 4/8+8/16 ohm positions on the stock switch), but its definitely a supersimple mod. Your speakers even come with twin terminals each, as if they were intended for additional wiring options

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

PS if your amp allows pulling power tube pairs for half-power wattage, you can even run single speakers at full blast...long as theyre not greenies

Btw, if you do run original greenbacks, even two @ fullpower 50w is putting them at risk. Gotta pull power tubes or run four speakers all together to use greenbacks & a 50w JCM safely (full stack for 100 watters and greenbacks). The 25 watt ones are prone to blowing up (and depending on cone used, even CATCHING FIRE) if hit with full rated wattage... Unlike the v30, with its superconservative name and old rating suggesting 30w, new labelling suggesting 60w, mesa saying oh whatever good for 70w too, etc, the greenback IS NOT conservatively rated. Always attach them to less power than the rated wattage (which btw, with 75s or v30s or whatnot, is NOT 25+75+25+75 for the cab... But 4x the lowest wattage speaker inside, or 2x that for the stereo inputs)

PPS if you NEVER wanna worry about ever blowing a speaker in whichever wiring on a 50watter amp, stick to v30 12-65s 12m-65s m70s 70-80s t75s cl80s c90s or t100s, those are safe in any quantity, as long as impedance (ohms) are set right

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Well, first impressions and stuff..

i tried it now with Blackheart Handsome Devil, master at full, 15 valve mode, i play with a Strat, different positions. i tried the cleans at first, and they're just awesome. then i pull the gain knob all the way from half to full and i was able to get some really good overdrive classic sounds, like hendrix, dire straits, zz top etc. however, the cab started resonating a bit, and the bass response was one of the greatest i ever could get from amps that i tried myself. notice, that i am a begginer, but i am so excited how bigger ,huge sound 412 has. that amp has a bit darker character, so i can get almost fuzzy sounds when i pull the gain the way up. however, with Strat and that setup the whole thing sounds like a rock'n'roll beast. the amp, however has sound very close to Jet City 20. more of a dark character, so i left the bass up to almost half, mids at half and treble at 7 of 10. presence at half. and i don't have no annoying high end spikes in ears at all. it's just so ballsy and it sounded a whole lot better 412 than 112 or 212 that i tried before very loud, but warm, definately. i have played the thing through 1x12 speakers that really sounded harsh to ears before, but that thing sounds amazing with those Blackheart 15 amp. no annoying noise issues at all, even at full i have definately enyoyed playing cleans and then some vintage overdriven sounds today. i played almost one or two hours.

Can't wait to try it with JCM 800, but that will not be at home, because i guess it's louder, all the way to loud for my room

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Your first big cab? Early impressions of playing a small tube amp through any 412 always seem to sound like yours.

Gotta be that feeling of air moving and sensing the notes in your bones vs. hearing em...THRILLING, INNIT?

If youre happy, might consider logging off SD forums and just enjoying the ride - speaker swaps, cab differences, tube rolling and all that crap are hella addictive, time consuming, and expensive... You can always come right back and revive the discussion if/once you find yourself min/maxing EQ knobs, mumbling words like "sick and tired", "boomy metal nonsense", "freakin chinese speakers", etc, or salivating over other ppl's speakerswapped cabs

....Good luck! Me, I'm off to shop for woods to rebuild a new cab for an amp that's had a cab bought for it due to dissatisfaction with onboard speakers, then its speakers swapped to 2 different kinds, tubes changed, tubes pulled for halfpower, a volume box for added FX loop master volume built, etc, and WAS slated for a retolex + semiclosed back conversion, but that magically grew into an enclosure swap DIY project... Needless to say, I KINDA ENVY YOU, YOU HAVENT QUITE CAUGHT THE COMPULSIVE MODDING BUG YET

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Ok, now i have a little time to replace two G12T75's with two Vintage 30's. Question about X pattern: do i have to rewire stock wiring somehow to do x pattern or is stock wiring ok to do that?

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

So i have done this today with Marshall 1960 A cabinet:


G12T-75 (left) Vintage 30(right)
x
Vintage 30 (left) G12T-75 (right)

Actually i replace two G12T-75's with two Vintage 30's. But i left the wiring the same, a haven't changed wiring. Is that actually the right X pattern ?

 

[esandes]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

I have ordered new Marshall 1960 A kabinet for my Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 head. I have listens to samples with JCM 800 connected to 4 Vintage 30 and it kinda doesn't sound so good to my ears. since, the amp itself has a lot of mids, i think it's not the right speakers for my tastes.

But here also i have a question: would JCM 800 have enough mids to compete with those G12-75 speakers with mid scooped character ? I play classic rock, and also some heavier stuff, think about 80's metal and also some newer metal stuff.. but nothing too extreme.

Should that G12-75 speakers bring all of that sounds of amp ?

Should i mix them with two V30's or the amp has enough of mids to cut through the mix without them ?

I am also into that Heritage 30 speakers, but i am curious about low end.

Does G12-75's have better low end ?

I wanted to that amp would be as much versatile as it can be. but, as i said i have listens to many samples of amp recorded with Vintage 30's but the sound wasn't my thing, actually i think it is something to much with that V30 and JCM 800 2204 amps.

So, the main question is, do i need some Vintage 30's in combination with G12-75's or G12H-30's in my cab to sound good?

I already know that 4x12 with four Vintage 30's in isn't my thing. But combinations ?

i don't like the sound of the G12T-75 speakers with any of my marshalls (jcm 800, 1987 and 1959). it has a scooped sound no matter if the amps mid and treble knobs are all dimed. i do like the sound of the greenbacks with my amps. it really takes the full gain of the JCM 800 very well. i'd try the v30s for yourself. i'm getting a v30 cab soon and from all of the sound clips i've heard on them it seems like a greenback but with more "focus and composure". if you still don't like the v30, try the greenbacks or the g12h-30s. i have no complaints about greenbacks really.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Yep, thats the right xpattern.

All v30s will sound different than half v30s, like too much of a good thing imho. Vintage thirties sound better mixed.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Question for JCM 800 users

Well, something went wrong.. it only plays the right side of the cab now. must check if i forgot something. but all that screws.. i am a bit lazy now. i will wait and then check if i forgot something inside the cab.