I have a Ceriatone copy of JCM 800 Lead 2204 now for about a year, so far i only played it at home, no band situation yet. ussualy i am runnning it through 1960 A cab. i boost it with Boss SD-1. i really like the sound but it's so loud from the beggining till the end.. i have some questions i want to answer before i am getting in a band situation. is that amp good for band while rehearsing ? or is it more for the stage? i am afraid it would be way too loud for band situation.. is there anyone that using that head at band rehearsals and how much master volume opened is enough or too much? what about attenuators?
Question for JCM 800 users
- Thread starter Lux84
- Start date
Rich_S
HomeGrownToneBrewologist
Re: Question for JCM 800 users
Back in the olden days of the 1980s, I played a 2203 head everywhere: home, rehearsal, stage. I really had to throttle it back with the master volume, many gigs it was at 2 or 2 1/2. It worked and I was pleased with my tone. In hindsight, I think a smaller amp would have been better, because turning the Master down that low tends to thin the sound out. These days, I think a cranked 20 watt amp sounds better.
However, your 50 watter isn't complete overkill. If it's your only good amp, try it as-is and be responsible with the MV. Nothing's worse than long rehearsals in a small room with too much volume.
An attenuator is a good idea as well. They don't really work if you're trying to scale down a giant amp to apartment volumes, but they can be very helpful in fine-tuning an amp that's a bit too big. I like my Weber MASS, but there are plenty of other good ones out there. Dumping 1/2 or 2/3 of your power through an attenuator will let you get a little more of that output-stage mojo going on, which you may or may not like better than just using the MV. No real way to tell unless you try it.
Back in the olden days of the 1980s, I played a 2203 head everywhere: home, rehearsal, stage. I really had to throttle it back with the master volume, many gigs it was at 2 or 2 1/2. It worked and I was pleased with my tone. In hindsight, I think a smaller amp would have been better, because turning the Master down that low tends to thin the sound out. These days, I think a cranked 20 watt amp sounds better.
However, your 50 watter isn't complete overkill. If it's your only good amp, try it as-is and be responsible with the MV. Nothing's worse than long rehearsals in a small room with too much volume.
An attenuator is a good idea as well. They don't really work if you're trying to scale down a giant amp to apartment volumes, but they can be very helpful in fine-tuning an amp that's a bit too big. I like my Weber MASS, but there are plenty of other good ones out there. Dumping 1/2 or 2/3 of your power through an attenuator will let you get a little more of that output-stage mojo going on, which you may or may not like better than just using the MV. No real way to tell unless you try it.
allbutromeo
Well-known member
Re: Question for JCM 800 users
I would say that it depends on the rest of your band. How loud is your drummer, your bass player, do you have a second guitarist, type of music? I play in a two guitar hard rock/punk/alternative band and routinely turn my 50w JCM900's master volume to around 4 for practice and 5-6 for gigs same goes for my Mesa MkV in 45w mode when I use that.
I would say that it depends on the rest of your band. How loud is your drummer, your bass player, do you have a second guitarist, type of music? I play in a two guitar hard rock/punk/alternative band and routinely turn my 50w JCM900's master volume to around 4 for practice and 5-6 for gigs same goes for my Mesa MkV in 45w mode when I use that.
Re: Question for JCM 800 users
I guess i will have to use attenuator for band rehearsal situations with 2204.. i have one. but i also have another head that's Randall Diavlo 45, and that
amp sounds amazing at low volume levels. type of music i play it's mostly some mix of heavy/thrash metal and occasionally some blues and classic rock. post thrash. i really like low output on JCM for some classic rock and blues. it's quieter than high output. i also have built in 50 to 25 watts in JCM. but to be honest it sounds better on 50 watt mode cranked up to about 6. i noticed that JCM sounds better on 6 -10 MV than on 4 -10 MV. i hope i'll be able to crank it up in some rehearsal situation soon.
I guess i will have to use attenuator for band rehearsal situations with 2204.. i have one. but i also have another head that's Randall Diavlo 45, and that
amp sounds amazing at low volume levels. type of music i play it's mostly some mix of heavy/thrash metal and occasionally some blues and classic rock. post thrash. i really like low output on JCM for some classic rock and blues. it's quieter than high output. i also have built in 50 to 25 watts in JCM. but to be honest it sounds better on 50 watt mode cranked up to about 6. i noticed that JCM sounds better on 6 -10 MV than on 4 -10 MV. i hope i'll be able to crank it up in some rehearsal situation soon.
Last edited:
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Question for JCM 800 users
I dont reckon attenuators are really necessary. They are really just another way of turning the amp down. A lot of what guitarists like about the "fat" sound of their amp at high volume is not always the power tubes cooking (quite often they are not doing much - it is more often the phase inverter cracking up) but the fact that the speakers are moving some air and you can feel it. There are other, simpler ways.
set your preamp gain to where you like the response.
Turn the master to zero.
Make sure your speaker cab is pointing at you and not the singer, put it on top of a milkcrate or two to get the cabinet off the floor.
Wait till the drummer and bassist start, then bring up the master in tiny increments till you level is well blended.
Forget about the tones you like when you are at home practicing alone. Let your ears guide you in a band situation. Use the eq. You will find that what works at home is different when surrounded by a bassist and drummer. Try not to think of your master volume as being something that sucks your lovely fat marshall tone as you roll it back from high levels. Think of zero as your base, and that each tiny increment in volume from there gives you a little but more.
Basically, think more about how the band sounds than how you sound alone. It takes time to get used to this arrangement. It might seem like a whole different sound to what you are used to. Try working with less gain and more dynamics in your rhythm playing so the band becomes greater than the sum of its parts. Try turning off your overdrive pedal until its time to play a lead.
The old adage of "less is more" is not just a cliche. It is the very basis of being a good musician in all its aspects.
Now if you find that after a few rehearsals you literally cannot live with the sound with your master at whatever level is necessary then have a look at warmer, less efficient speakers. A quad of greenbacks for example will give a pronounced volume drop compared to the g12T75s or vintage 30s that are often found in 1960 cabinets. This means you can push your amp just that little bit harder for the same volume. Dont worry too much about that tho until you have done a bunch of rehearsals and got used to the different feel of playing your gear in a way that works with the band, rather than getting self absorbed in the quest for the perfect tone and ending up working against the band.
I dont reckon attenuators are really necessary. They are really just another way of turning the amp down. A lot of what guitarists like about the "fat" sound of their amp at high volume is not always the power tubes cooking (quite often they are not doing much - it is more often the phase inverter cracking up) but the fact that the speakers are moving some air and you can feel it. There are other, simpler ways.
set your preamp gain to where you like the response.
Turn the master to zero.
Make sure your speaker cab is pointing at you and not the singer, put it on top of a milkcrate or two to get the cabinet off the floor.
Wait till the drummer and bassist start, then bring up the master in tiny increments till you level is well blended.
Forget about the tones you like when you are at home practicing alone. Let your ears guide you in a band situation. Use the eq. You will find that what works at home is different when surrounded by a bassist and drummer. Try not to think of your master volume as being something that sucks your lovely fat marshall tone as you roll it back from high levels. Think of zero as your base, and that each tiny increment in volume from there gives you a little but more.
Basically, think more about how the band sounds than how you sound alone. It takes time to get used to this arrangement. It might seem like a whole different sound to what you are used to. Try working with less gain and more dynamics in your rhythm playing so the band becomes greater than the sum of its parts. Try turning off your overdrive pedal until its time to play a lead.
The old adage of "less is more" is not just a cliche. It is the very basis of being a good musician in all its aspects.
Now if you find that after a few rehearsals you literally cannot live with the sound with your master at whatever level is necessary then have a look at warmer, less efficient speakers. A quad of greenbacks for example will give a pronounced volume drop compared to the g12T75s or vintage 30s that are often found in 1960 cabinets. This means you can push your amp just that little bit harder for the same volume. Dont worry too much about that tho until you have done a bunch of rehearsals and got used to the different feel of playing your gear in a way that works with the band, rather than getting self absorbed in the quest for the perfect tone and ending up working against the band.
Last edited:
Reckless Abandon
New member
Re: Question for JCM 800 users
I like one with my 800. I do not use it to make an "on 10" quiet. I set my master up about 4 and use a lower watt handling speaker. Mine is a combo.
I like one with my 800. I do not use it to make an "on 10" quiet. I set my master up about 4 and use a lower watt handling speaker. Mine is a combo.
Re: Question for JCM 800 users
A 50 watter would be good with a band. I own a 2203 copy I built and it's effin' loud and still would be easily useable for rehearsal. Still, I get that you probably won't turn it as loud as you'd think, even with a drummer. It is a loud amp and the focus of the mid-range is what makes this amp seem even louder than it is.
One thing I did on mine was put a PPIMV (post phase-inverter master volume) on it. Yours not a vintage one, it's a very nice copy but still "just" a copy so adding this wouldn't be hard or either detrimental to its value by much if at all.
I highly recommend it. Not only will it make it easier for you to balance volume and tone in your band context, it also makes it quite better for home-use.
If you can, look into the LARMar variety, it's supposed to be very very good. I only went with a "regular" PPIMV and I couldn't be happier.
Less trouble than an attenuator, simple, cheap, efficient.
A 50 watter would be good with a band. I own a 2203 copy I built and it's effin' loud and still would be easily useable for rehearsal. Still, I get that you probably won't turn it as loud as you'd think, even with a drummer. It is a loud amp and the focus of the mid-range is what makes this amp seem even louder than it is.
One thing I did on mine was put a PPIMV (post phase-inverter master volume) on it. Yours not a vintage one, it's a very nice copy but still "just" a copy so adding this wouldn't be hard or either detrimental to its value by much if at all.
I highly recommend it. Not only will it make it easier for you to balance volume and tone in your band context, it also makes it quite better for home-use.
If you can, look into the LARMar variety, it's supposed to be very very good. I only went with a "regular" PPIMV and I couldn't be happier.
Less trouble than an attenuator, simple, cheap, efficient.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Question for JCM 800 users
As every room and situation is different I dont see how you can really answer this question until you try it for yourself. You may very well buy things or mods that you dont need by trying to jump the gun.
As every room and situation is different I dont see how you can really answer this question until you try it for yourself. You may very well buy things or mods that you dont need by trying to jump the gun.
devastone
Well-known member
Re: Question for JCM 800 users
This - "One thing I did on mine was put a PPIMV (post phase-inverter master volume) on it. Yours not a vintage one, it's a very nice copy but still "just" a copy so adding this wouldn't be hard or either detrimental to its value by much if at all."
This - "One thing I did on mine was put a PPIMV (post phase-inverter master volume) on it. Yours not a vintage one, it's a very nice copy but still "just" a copy so adding this wouldn't be hard or either detrimental to its value by much if at all."
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Question for JCM 800 users
Haven't used my 100-watter in a band situation yet, but even with a 2x12, I'm sure it'd be balls loud.
Haven't used my 100-watter in a band situation yet, but even with a 2x12, I'm sure it'd be balls loud.
Similar threads
