Questions about '80's SD Jazz & JB set in my newly acquired guitar

[Texsunburst59]

I'm new here and I'm fairly versed when it comes to guitars in general,but I still consider myself a newbie when it comes to guitar pickups.

So I just picked up this older '89 Epiphone Sheraton II guitar that came loaded with a late 80's? set of SD Jazz & JB humbuckers.

It was a big bonus to see these in there instead of the original Korean pickups.

From what I can gather the guitar still has the original 3 way pickup selector and the original wiring and volume and tone pots.

Even with original Korean 3-way toggle,l wiring and pots, the guitar sounds AMAZING through my '84 Boogie MKIIC+ 60 watt combo.

For 70's/80's Classic and Hard rock tones, this guitar loaded with this Hod Rod set of SD's, just kills.

I did a guitar shootout with my Sheraton (Jazz/JB), '70 Gibson 335(original T-Tops), and '83 Gibson 335 (original Tim Shaws):

I just wanted to hear how all 3 sounded playing Classic & HR leads and rhythm through my Boogie.


Power chords and lead lines sound big and punchy on the bridge and middle position in the Sheraton, and it obliterated my other 335's.

I was able to get some amazing singing harmonic rich sustained tones with ease in all 3 pickup positions in my Sheraton.

The '83 335 loaded with the original Tim Shaw's, was more balanced tone wise compared to Sheraton,but sounded anemic for lead and rhythm tones compared to the Sheraton.

The '70 335 with original T-Tops sounded the worst of the bunch, and lead and rhythm tones sounded very bright and harsh compared to the other 2 guitars.

It was also hard to tame the T-top tones, as it was always on the verge of squealing feedback while putting it through it's paces.

Hand down the overall best sounding guitar for Classic/Hard rock tones was the Sheraton.

So here's where the questions come in about this SD Jazz/JB set that's loaded in my Sheraton.

How can I tame the mid rich tones of these SD's without killing their personality?

Would installing some quality 250K volume and tone pots tame the mids and warm the tones up some?

Would running a quality programmable EQ pedal in the signal path be better than having to mess with the volume and tone pots?

Notice that the Jazz neck pickup is missing 5 balance string to string adjustment screws.

Not sure why the previous owner removed them,but I plan on installing new screws.

I know that all the SD pickup experts on this forum with have the right answers for me.

Here's some pics of my guitar and of the SD Jazz & JB pickups that came loaded in it.

 

[Hsb]

Welcome to the forum first of all and next congrats on the guitar. The JB def has a upper mid spike in a lot of guitars that either you love or hate. Think the easiest way to tame it a lil is with an eq pedal. Installing the 250s may work as well to tame some of the mid tones on it.

Why would someone remove the screw poles from a pickup, that makes no sense to me.

 

[gsammo79]

The midrange of the JB is what makes it a JB. You can change the magnet and see where that gets you, but i'd be surprised if youre able to tame the midrange without changing the personality of that pickup. Maybe throw an A4 in it. An A2 probably wont tame the mids one bit.

Check out the JB Antiquity model & the JB 35th Anniversary model. You may hear a difference that suits you or you might not.

 

[jeremy]

odd that someone would pull those 5 screws but they can be easily (and carefully) replaced. its a little hard to tame the mids of the jb, a4 or a3 might help but hard to say. i wouldnt switch the pots, itll get warmer but thicker as well. an eq is probably your best bet

 

[playas]

I wouldn't recommend an A3, I tried it in a similar leesona wound jbl to the one shown in your pic and it just seems to have moved the mid hump up, making it harsher. I find it unpleasant.

An A2 seems to spread the hump a little more than the A5 it comes with. I prefer it but suspect Unoriented A5 is probably the best mag swap for a JB.

As the screws have already been removed, maybe replacing them with hex screws, slugs or something else may tame the mids a bit. I can't direct you there as I've never tried it though.

 

[AdrianSD]

I really like my A8 JB and Custom

 

[Masta' C]

Even with original Korean 3-way toggle,l wiring and pots, the guitar sounds AMAZING through my '84 Boogie MKIIC+ 60 watt combo.

For 70's/80's Classic and Hard rock tones, this guitar loaded with this Hod Rod set of SD's, just kills.

....

Power chords and lead lines sound big and punchy on the bridge and middle position in the Sheraton, and it obliterated my other 335's.

I was able to get some amazing singing harmonic rich sustained tones with ease in all 3 pickup positions in my Sheraton.

The '83 335 loaded with the original Tim Shaw's, was more balanced tone wise compared to Sheraton,but sounded anemic for lead and rhythm tones compared to the Sheraton.

The '70 335 with original T-Tops sounded the worst of the bunch, and lead and rhythm tones sounded very bright and harsh compared to the other 2 guitars.

It was also hard to tame the T-top tones, as it was always on the verge of squealing feedback while putting it through it's paces.

Hand down the overall best sounding guitar for Classic/Hard rock tones was the Sheraton.

So here's where the questions come in about this SD Jazz/JB set that's loaded in my Sheraton.

How can I tame the mid rich tones of these SD's without killing their personality?

Read back through your comments above and tell us again why you'd want to change anything?

 

[GuitarStv]

Pulling all the screws from one coil of a humbucker makes the humbucker sound a little bit like a single coil . . . it's effectively creating a dummy coil with the slug coil on duty for picking up sounds.

Never run into the 'single screw' version of this though. Maybe he did the above and lost the rest of the screws.

 

[Mincer]

I think it is worth tracking down some screws to hear what a Jazz is supposed to sound like. A Jazz is usually clean and clear, without many mids at all, although I haven't tested one without the screws.
As for the JB, well, that is how a JB sounds. I'd keep the pickup for a more hard rock-based guitar, and consider switching it out for a Pearly Gates or 59, which won't emphasize any mids.

 

[Texsunburst59]

Read back through your comments above and tell us again why you'd want to change anything?

I understand what you're saying Masta/C.

The SD's in the Sheraton do sound amazing for the Classic/Hard Rock tones, but I'm just trying to see if there's anything I could do to make it a little more versatile tonally.

My home base tones are the Classic/Hard Rock tones, as I grew up with them, and played this genre in the 80's.

My '83 Dot with the Tim Shaw's with the right gain, can cover Classic and Hard Rock tones well enough, but just not as great as the SD's.

The '83 excels at Bluesy and Jazzy style tones, and that's where it sounds it's best.

The Sheraton loaded with these '80's SD Jazz/JB set, can't do the Blues or Jazz well at all.

I understand that the SD's weren't made to do the Jazzy or Bluesy stuff, but if there's a way to get them leaning that way, then I'm willing to try that.

 

[jeremy]

the jazz should be able to do almost anything but the jb is a hot pup and that wont change. you can wire a switch to get the jb in parallel which will be brighter and less middy but its a pita in a semi hollow working through the f holes

 

[gsammo79]

I like the JB and i've got one, but it's not the easiest pickup to tame as a humbucker-- it does split really, really well.

If you can manage to install coil splitting in that Sheraton then your JB is gonna be more of what youre looking for.

 

[Texsunburst59]

I like the JB and i've got one, but it's not the easiest pickup to tame as a humbucker-- it does split really, really well.

If you can manage to install coil splitting in that Sheraton then your JB is gonna be more of what youre looking for.

II have a local guitar tech that's brave enough to try to work those small f- holes.

If he's going to work in there to change the pots to push-pull splits ,he might as well change all the wiring as well.

He already told me he upgrade all the wiring and clean up my whole guitar, and polish everything for $120 ,so I think that's really cheap.

 

[gsammo79]

II have a local guitar tech that's brave enough to try to work those small f- holes.

If he's going to work in there to change the pots to push-pull splits ,he might as well change all the wiring as well.

He already told me he upgrade all the wiring and clean up my whole guitar, and polish everything for $120 ,so I think that's really cheap.

As much as you like your JB, give this a shot. The JB is known as a great split humbucker. You'll likely have the best of both worlds, man.

 

[GuitarStv]

II have a local guitar tech that's brave enough to try to work those small f- holes.

If he's going to work in there to change the pots to push-pull splits ,he might as well change all the wiring as well.

He already told me he upgrade all the wiring and clean up my whole guitar, and polish everything for $120 ,so I think that's really cheap.

Give that man a 6-pack when you pick up the guitar. It's a real bastard to wire up those semi-hollows through the F-holes.

 

[GuitarDoc]

There is really no mag swap which can change the basic character of the JB...I've tried every mag from A2 to A8 (except A6 and A9). A JB wired in parallel sounds MUCH better than a JB split and it's worth a try doing that since your tech is going to be rewiring it anyway. Have him make that change with a p/p pot so you can easily change back and forth from full humbucker (series) to parallel.. An equalizer (at least 10 band) is the only thing that can "help" a JB to be more versatile by reducing that spike, but in my experience, a JB is one of the LEAST versatile pups I've ever played. No matter what I have done to it, it still sounds like a JB. That mid spike is something you either have to love or hate, there's no middle ground.

Like was mentioned earlier, removing the screws from the Jazz makes it tend to sound more like it's split (but not quite). It effectively is the slug coil doing all the "work" with the screw coil acting as a dummy coil to eliminate hum.

The Jazz, in opposition to the JB, is probably one of the MOST versatile pups I've played and one of my most favorite. Changing magnets (to an A2 to make an A2P, or an A8 to give it more mids and power) or polepiece screws (1022 screws will give it more brightness and snap, 1018 or lower reduces that snap) has a noticeable affect on the tone.

 

[Mincer]

I am one of those people that also believes that a JB sounds like a JB no matter what magnet is in it. I think the wind transcends the magnet. If you like it, they it is awesome, if you don't, you really just need another pickup.

 

[Texsunburst59]

After getting feedback from you guys and input from others , I realize I need to accept and rock this guitar just like it is.


I'm also not the type of guy that's going to try 5 different set of pickups and swap out the magnets on the pickups.

I'm looking now at the 4 things that makes this guitar a great addition to my guitar collection.

1) it's a great looking guitar
2) the pickups sound AMAZING in this guitar
3) the neck is so comfortable and fast
4) at $277, it's the best guitar value of any guitar in my collection

The top 10 best sounding and playing guitars in my collection( not listed in any special order/ranking)

1) '09 PRS DGT
2) '03 Tom Anderson Hollow T Drop Top HSH
3) '99 Tom Anderson Hollow Drop Top Classic SSH
4) '15 Suhr Classic Pro SSH
5) '83 Gibson ES-335 Dot (loaded original Tim Shaws)
6) '00 Gibson Classic Premium Plus LP
7) '75 Fender Strat SSS
8) '86 MIJ Fender '69RI Pink Paisley Tele (loaded with Lollar Royal T neck and Vintage T bridge)
9) '01 Gibson LP Jr. (loaded with Rio Grande Bluesdawg P-90)
10) '89 Epiphone Sheraton II (loaded with late 80's Seymour Duncan Jazz neck and JB in bridge)

 

[Masta' C]

After getting feedback from you guys and input from others , I realize I need to accept and rock this guitar just like it is.

Thank heavens! When a guitar works as well as you say, one should avoid venturing down the tone-seeking rabbit hole unnecessarily. There's a good chance you'll spend a lot of time and money only to end up back where you started! #weveallbeenthere

 

[eclecticsynergy]

JB is definitely a heavy rock pickup. It's hot and compressed and it doesn't clean up well.
That's the core of its character & magic though, central to its unique voice & great feel.

I'd consider having your tech replace the wiring and use a push-pull to split the JB.
And a partial split (with 1.1K resistor) for the Jazz too.

That would make the guitar eminently usable for blues and lighter stuff, while retaining the tone you love for the harder stuff.