Questions about Baritones......

A

Antihero

New member
I am really starting to get into baritones after not caring one bit about them, so i dont really know an awful lot about them. What i am thinking of doing is i have an old Saga kit strat that i pretty much never play, so im thinking of putting one of the Warmouth conversion necks on and i have a couple of question.

1. What do you guys think of the Warmoth conversion Neck?

2. Is the string tension of the neck tuned to b comparable to a standard legnth neck tuned to E? I ask because i sometimes have the problem of freting very very hard when i am getting into the music and after experimenting with downtuning i have to conciously think of fretting really light when downtuned. So I need to know so i can figure out what size frets to get on the neck.

3. Which companies sell baritone strings? Which do you recommend for playing clean?

4. Any other pearls of wisdom about effects amps etc when using a Baritone?
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

1. It supposedly works like a charm, but I'll let others chime in.

2. Put it this way; The longer the scale length, the higher the string tension. I'd imagine that a set of 10's in E on a 25.5 would feel quite a bit tighter on a 26.5 baritone. Thus, you could tune down with the same guage strings. Also, whenever you downtune on a standard guitar, or baritone, you should always up the string guage, or you will suffer from rubberbandstringitis.

3. Unless I'm mistaken, there's no such thing as 'baritone strings.' You just would be buying thicker guages.

4. Nothing really other than your standard stuff. If you're going to be tuning down, I highly reccommend you put a set of EMG's in the guitar. I know there are many Duncans that do well under low tunings, but I honestly thing EMG's perform better than any other pickup when tuning below Eb.
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

DeadSkinSlayer3 said:
3. Unless I'm mistaken, there's no such thing as 'baritone strings.' You just would be buying thicker guages.
Click to expand...

I would imagine that having a guitar that has a scale length that is almost 4 inches longer would mean that you would need different strings, but i might be wrong....
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

I had a Yamaha drop 6, and was told an 11-64 set felt like 10's in standard. It was pretty close, although I like a 13 for the high string. The set I ended up really liking was 13-17-26-36-52-70
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

Usually "baritone strings" are 13-65 or thereabouts...umm yeah...

as for the tension, yeah they have WAY higher tension than my 7-string 25.5 does (27" compared) but it doesn't make it hard to play...well, bending would be interesting but I was just doing some metalcore stuff on it so yeah.

And umm...if that neck is like...200 bucks...you should just get that bolt-on baritone from rondomusic, it's like 300 bucks and it'd play better than the strat anyway.
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

D-EJ915 said:
And umm...if that neck is like...200 bucks...you should just get that bolt-on baritone from rondomusic, it's like 300 bucks and it'd play better than the strat anyway.
Click to expand...

Mostly because the neck on the Agile is described as "Incredibly fast" or something like it, and usually fast=thin and i cant stand thin necks.

Also because i dont use the saga and i might as well see if i do have a use for it.

Why do you think that the Agile would play better than the strat with a warmoth conversion?
 
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Re: Questions about Baritones......

Also i should mention that this is going to be played clean most of the time.....
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

I'm just used to carved tops, that's why I said that, lol. Plus if your strats has a middle pickup then it'll get in my way.

It was totally based off of what I'd get haha.
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

Antihero said:
I am really starting to get into baritones after not caring one bit about them, so i dont really know an awful lot about them. What i am thinking of doing is i have an old Saga kit strat that i pretty much never play, so im thinking of putting one of the Warmouth conversion necks on and i have a couple of question.

1. What do you guys think of the Warmoth conversion Neck?

2. Is the string tension of the neck tuned to b comparable to a standard legnth neck tuned to E? I ask because i sometimes have the problem of freting very very hard when i am getting into the music and after experimenting with downtuning i have to conciously think of fretting really light when downtuned. So I need to know so i can figure out what size frets to get on the neck.

3. Which companies sell baritone strings? Which do you recommend for playing clean?

4. Any other pearls of wisdom about effects amps etc when using a Baritone?
Click to expand...


1. I have a baritone Strat made out of Warmoth parts, and I love it. It's tuned B-B.

2. The tension is higher, but it's also based on string gauge. D'Addario makes two baritone electric gauges, .013s and .014s. Mine has stainless steel frets, one of the major reasons being that thicker strings wear out frets faster, and I hate worn down frets. I got the SS6105 frets, and I love them.

3. See above, the D'Addarios are great.

4. I mostly play my baritone clean, too, maybe with a little overdrive sometimes(rock & roll, rockabilly, country, etc.). I was looking for twang, I don't do any heavy metal chunk-chunking. For pickups, I have SSL-1s in the neck and middle. I had a hard time deciding what to do for the bridge. At one point I was going to use a P-90, but I talked to Seymour, and he recommended an underwound humbucker. MJ wound me an Alnico 5 (for tight, punchy low notes) humbucker with 8.2 DC resistance and a four-conductor cable. I have a three-way mini-switch (again, Seymour's recommendation) and it's wired series/split/parallel. With this configuration, I can get single coil, full power, and parallel, which is still hum cancelling, but lower output. It sounds fantastic.
I got Schaller locking tuners for mine, as it stays in tune better, makes string changes easier, and lets me avoid wrapping the thick lower strings around the post (which would be a huge pain). The low B string was too thick for the tuner hole, so a local luthier drilled it out for me. It took 5 minutes and cost 5 bucks.

It's a great instrument and I love how it plays and sounds. A few people saw it at UGD, it's a bright, deep red.
If you have any more questions, fire away.
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

The tension with the same guage strings on a warmoth conversion neck will be lower in B.

It would be identical in D.
Why?
Scale is the same as normal if you capo at the 2nd fret.
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

TheGZeus said:
The tension with the same guage strings on a warmoth conversion neck will be lower in B.

It would be identical in D.
Why?
Scale is the same as normal if you capo at the 2nd fret.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about the logic here, but this isn't correct. First of all, for a 28 5/8" scale guitar, you need to use baritone strings to get the best sound and performance. It is obviously a longer scale instument, and needs thicker strings, as a bass needs thicker strings than a standard guitar. I have .014s on mine, and I don't see any possible way that .010s would do the trick. Also, the D'Addario light baritone set is the same as a .010 set, just take away the high E .010, add a low B .062, and move all the strings one higher.

According to D'Addario, the string tension in pounds for various gauges is:

Listed in order of Regular Light (XL110 .010-.046)/Light Baritone (XL158 .013-.062)/Medium Baritone (XL157 .014-.068):

String 1: 16.2/20.9/24.3
String 2: 15.4/20/22.5
String 3: 16.6/25/25
String 4: 18.4/26.5/39
String 5: 19.5/23.8/35.8
String 6: 17.5/24.6/29.5

This is meaured on a 25.5" scale for the .010s and a 29 3/4" tuned down a fourth (B-B). As the Warmoth neck is 28 5/8" scale, the tension for the baritone sets will be less than the numbers above, but I imagine will still be significantly more than a standard guitar with .010s. As the 2nd string of the .010s and the 1st string of the .013s are both .013, the numbers above clearly indicate that the tension is more on a baritone. The .013 B in Standard has 15.4 lbs. and the .013 B for baritone has 20.9 lbs. In response to the previous statement, considering that tuning down to D on a standard guitar would reduce tension, and reducing the scale length of D'Addario's numbers from 29 3/4" to 28 5/8" would also reduce tension, the numbers will go down, but will not be equal. Hence, more string tension on a baritone.

I have used the .014s, and the tension is pretty high, to the point where it's hard to bend the third sting up a whole step. I'm considering going with the .013s to see if I like them better.
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

Antihero said:
I would imagine that having a guitar that has a scale length that is almost 4 inches longer would mean that you would need different strings, but i might be wrong....
Click to expand...

4" longer than a 25.5" strat is ALSO no longer a baritone but already a short scale bass for most luthiers.. the warmoth is barely 3 1/8" longer... sounds like splitting hairs, but if you´ve ever built a guitar you´ll realize it´s not.... ;)

The warmoth necks work fine with normal guitar strings... if you open a pack, you´ll also see that most manufacturers leave a few inches (Usually between 5-8) extra becasue not all headstocks are the same..... there are "baritone sets" availyble from LaBella and others, but these are also only heavier guages, the reasonoing being that most baritone players tune down.. But I know guys that play baritones in standard tuning, as well... ;)

There are quite a few misconceptions here, though...

Gzeus is theoretically correct, if tuned to d and capoed at Fret 2 the tension and tuning will be identical... unfortunately, as soon as you remove the capo the entire argument is for naught because you´ve introduced the longer scale, requiring a recalculation of tension.....

I personally string 7-string baritones with 13-17-26-36-46-50-70 and tune down to the e-f range (yes, just above where a Bass would normally be)...

Amp wisdom: CHeap combos with a 10" speakere aren´t ideal amplification, if you run a head/rack -> cabinet setup you may want to consider even getting a 1x15, depending on how low you go ;)
 
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Re: Questions about Baritones......

Zerberus said:
The warmoth necks work fine with normal guitar strings... if you open a pack, you´ll also see that most manufacturers leave a few inches (Usually between 5-8) extra becasue not all headstocks are the same..... there are "baritone sets" availyble from LaBella and others, but these are also only heavier guages, the reasonoing being that most baritone players tune down.. But I know guys that play baritones in standard tuning, as well... ;)
Click to expand...
When references are made to "baritone guitars", most of the time the implication is that they are tuned to B-B or A-A. To this end, if you want a Warmoth baritone to play well and have an appropiate amount of tension, use a baritone set of strings. In addition to proper tension, they also have tons of sustain (lots of mass vibrating), and a nice, fat piano-like tone. The typical idea of a baritone guitar is an instument between a standard guitar and a bass (I guess it could be called a "tenor bass", but that sounds like an oxymoron), hence the scale length, string gauge, and tuning should fall between guitar and bass. If you play a long scale guitar in standard tuning, I wouldn't call it a baritone guitar, I'd call it a long scale guitar. .010s on my Warmoth baritone just wouldn't cut it. As I mentioned, the easiest thing to do is to get a set of .010s, remove the .010, and add a .062 for the low B.
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

MikeRocker said:
....If you play a long scale guitar in standard tuning, I wouldn't call it a baritone guitar, I'd call it a long scale guitar....
Click to expand...

I would do this very much.... for the last few hundred years, A baritone has been by definition a "Long scale guitar", just like a bass strung up with guitar strings is still a bass... it´s not what you strintg it with, it´s what you need to string .... just like a Mustang GT with BBS wheels and lots of bling-bling is still a Mustang GT ;)

GUITAR SIZES (by scale length) AND THEIR TRADITIONAL "names" (measurements approximated to inches, +/- .5 " , number fo strings left aside):

Piccolo guitar: <15" scale

3/4 Guitar: >15" but <21"

Standard guitar: >21" but >26"

Baritone Guitar: >26" but <30"

Short scale bass /Tenor Bass: >30" but <34"

"Standard" long scale bass: >34", top limit I´ve ever seen is 40"
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

I'm not aware of any several hundred year old dictionary which is considered the definitive source of musical definitions and their relation to guitar scales, but the word "baritone" refers to a pitch range, as in a baritone singer is lower than a tenor, but higher than a bass, regardless of the singer's height (I once saw a TV special about a midget baritone/bass opera singer, but I digress). The terms and descriptions in the previous post were arrived at by taking the instument's range into account, and with the awareness that, all things being equal, longer scale equals lower pitch. When tuning a 29" guitar to standard E-E, technically the instrument may have been designed to be a baritone guitar, but that is not how it is being used.
Regardless, in common practice, when the words "baritone guitar" are mentioned to musician types, the implication is that the instrument is tuned between a bass and a guitar. Certainly, in musical situiations, the range of an instrument is more important to its definition than the instrument's scale length. If I'm doing a session and the producer asks for "baritone guitar", I operate under the assumption that he's talking about B-B or A-A, not a long scale standard E-E. If I whip out a long scale E-E and call it a "baritone guitar", the producer is going to operate under the assumption that I have no idea what I'm talking about nor doing, and fire me.

By the way, if you want to read about the midget opera singer (who is quite gifted): http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/12/60II/main666423.shtml
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

Zerberus said:
4" longer than a 25.5" strat is ALSO no longer a baritone but already a short scale bass for most luthiers.. the warmoth is barely 3 1/8" longer... sounds like splitting hairs, but if you´ve ever built a guitar you´ll realize it´s not.... ;)
Click to expand...


You're right. My only defence is that it was late when i posted it.

Thanks for all the responses and info.
 
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Re: Questions about Baritones......

D-EJ915 said:
I'm just used to carved tops, that's why I said that, lol. Plus if your strats has a middle pickup then it'll get in my way.

It was totally based off of what I'd get haha.
Click to expand...

Its all good, i want any opinion i can get on the subject anyway.
 
Re: Questions about Baritones......

Also the tone i am looking for is mellow and deep. The body that i would attach the neck has A Duncan Performer Scorcher in the neck and the stock high pitched but not twangy pups. Do you guys think that the scorcher will give me the tone i want? Should i replace he others with some other SC sized HB?

Thanks and i will post a new post in the Pickup Section asking the same question.
 
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