Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

[RW James]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

I agree, to a point. However, I can worship without doing a thing. Worship is adoration of God, you can adore Him as an attitude, as your life during the week, etc. True, I'm the first one to advocate skillfully playing in church, but it's just my two cents on the priority of it: God and worship first, playing second. A worship musician that cannot sense the Spirit of God and what He wants is handicapped.

I agree... worship is not an hour a week - it is a lifestyle. But I have seen too often musicians that compromise their playing and assume the Holy Spirit will close the gap. They are failing to LEAD the congregation into worship. Bad sound will do the same thing - it just becomes a distraction - making worship difficult at best.

Playing is second - but it's a close second. Pray - then play (I just made that up!)

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

I agree... worship is not an hour a week - it is a lifestyle. But I have seen too often musicians that compromise their playing and assume the Holy Spirit will close the gap. They are failing to LEAD the congregation into worship. Bad sound will do the same thing - it just becomes a distraction - making worship difficult at best.

Playing is second - but it's a close second. Pray - then play (I just made that up!)

True, both extremes ("hiring rockstars" versus "not practicing") are wrong.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

TR, FYI: Hoss is fine. He's called, he knows his role, and he knows his purpose. He was just sharing a frustration.

BTW, the soundtech changing MY rig just before a service is placing a stumbling block in my path. He creates a distraction for ME, making it harder for me to worship. I believe that qualifies as sin.

However, that does not excuse me sinning in retaliation.

As a contrast, our soundtech will explain a problem to us and ask us to adjust or ask what can be done to correct it. She has NEVER touched my equipment, or anyone else's, for that matter. And when all is said and done, she makes us sound BETTER. That is service.

Now, our role is to make her job easier without compromising our purpose.

"Galatians 5:13 For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don’t use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love."

 

[devastone]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

Our Main guitarist on Sundays is basically a Pro that plays LPs, PRS, all top of the line stuff. Our piano player is also pro, he teaches piano, guitar and bass for a living. Our keyboard player can both read music and has perfect pitch, Bass player is very good, and our drummer has played with many local pro artists. They also transpose on the fly, and will regularly call out chords to add / change in a piece ie "lets do a Am9add11 there"
So I felt the same as you. What I found out was, I just fit in where I could. Aux percussion in musicals, fill in on drums when the main guy cant be at choir practice, eventually filling in on bass on Sundays, once or twice filling in on guitar or playing a second part. At some point started playing Electric in youth worship on Wed nights (Rock, sometimes fairly heavy)
I have found that I am now much better musically, from merely being around these guys. We get music Wednesday and run it once, then once Sunday before Church. Its kinda crazy. But awesome. Dont give up on working with these guys, let em know you want to be part of what they do, and just want to maybe add something where they need it.

I agree totally, it was bad timing for me, I got frustrated (which I know I shouldn't), some of the frustration was work, life, outside of church things, that I let affect me, then, some of the music wasn't in the key I learned it in (yes, I know my transposition skills could use work and I know about the Nashville number system). Alot of stuff piled up and I messed up, such is life. I know I am a better player than what I showed, so that also frustrated me. I'm not sure if it was "this is not the right time for you to do this" or what. So, I will try again when I feel the time is right, but thanks for the encouragement.

Now, back to the original topic, sorry for taking some of this OT.

Roger

 

[Hoss]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

i had a couple happy-go-lucky conversations with him about the sound and how we could get things to sound better and i told him about mic's and amp stands months ago, but he would always just say we need more direct boxes...lol...i never stopped playing or worshipping...not one single time...cuz when that first note is played it's not about me anymore at all.

i was in the same boat as RW...until a few short months ago we were a grand piano and choir worship church and the Pastor new that in order to grow and increase attendance (especially on wed night) we had to do something new...so he personally came to me after he attended a few youth services and asked me to start playing in regular church and to "kick it up a notch".

have i been frustrated with the situation...you bet...genuinely mad...not once...our worship leader and Pastor have been working on it...and even though the soundguys refuse to come to practice or even show up a little early...the equipment is definitely a step in the right direction!

i just know how great it can be and i've prayed about it every single day...and my prayers have been answered...and it's a relief.

our worship services are definitely works in progress...and i'll follow the progression wherever God takes it!

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

i was in the same boat as RW...until a few short months ago we were a grand piano and choir worship church and the Pastor new that in order to grow and increase attendance (especially on wed night) we had to do something new...so he personally came to me after he attended a few youth services and asked me to start playing in regular church and to "kick it up a notch".

Hmm. Well I agree, sort of, but hopefully increases in attendance are due to new people in church, i.e. salvations. Do we really need people from other churches who leave for various reasons? I'm just asking the question. Do we entice people to come in by our music, or is it God who draws them there? Just food for thought.

 

[RW James]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

Hmm. Well I agree, sort of, but hopefully increases in attendance are due to new people in church, i.e. salvations. Do we really need people from other churches who leave for various reasons?

Yes. I left my old church for the one I'm in now. The music was a part of it - but not the whole story by any means - just the tip of the iceberg.

There are people that travel from church to church - but I was at my old church for over 20 years - it was time to move on.

I'm just asking the question. Do we entice people to come in by our music, or is it God who draws them there? Just food for thought.

I pray that God speaks to them through my music - really. Who's to say how God works and who He uses to carry out His plan. It's all part of keeping your chops up and being ready when you're called.

But yes, to answer your question another way, we do deliberately select our music to attract the unchurched - but then hopefully have a solid foundation of faith to keep them.

Conversely, we've had people complain about the music - then our pastor tells them that are dozens of other churches in town with a large variety of music that they would surely find agreeable.

 

[Hoss]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

Hmm. Well I agree, sort of, but hopefully increases in attendance are due to new people in church, i.e. salvations. Do we really need people from other churches who leave for various reasons? I'm just asking the question. Do we entice people to come in by our music, or is it God who draws them there? Just food for thought.

dude...who said anything about anybody trying to get people to leave other churches?????

and if God stopped speaking through my music...i'd quit today...that's my only mission in music period...i try my best to Convey what God has put in my soul through that guitar and my voice in the best way i can...the latter being a much better tool than the former but i'm getting better.

we're focusing on getting all the people we have to show up "every" service and attract new people and actually keep the visitors who do come. our wed night services were primarily only the elders of the church and it's because the music was stuck in 1935...since the Pastor changed things up a bit we now have a bigger and more varied demographic attending regularly and even more people coming to every service overall...not because we are great (in fact i can guarantee i'm the biggest hack on this board!), but because the Pastor is genuinely following what he knows in his heart to be God's will for the worship...we are in a musical transition period and we're just going through some growing pains...simple as that really.

God uses music and every other part of the service and it's people to "draw" others to His house...and when they get there we'd kinda like them to come back.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

What I mentioned was only food for thought. I'm not making accusations at all.

I've been around churches that did so much to attract the unchurched that they neglected growing their current members, and visa versa. It's a very difficult balance. But I'm not necessarily of the opinion that the unchurched magically come to church any more than zombies in a video game magically show up at treatment plants to be revived. The spiritually dead do not normally seek out such places, and I've seen it before, but it's truly rare. Still, it's God who draws them, so it can happen, and I pray that it does.

However, I prefer a church that puts a strong emphasis on witnessing person to person, even door to door (for the truly brave lol). It is through work and life and neighborhood that people see us, etc. I'm more of the opinion that lives are changed one on one during the week. I've seen a lot more of that in my life than the "unchurched" magically showing up at church, but like I said, it's God who draws, and it does happen, even if it's rare.

There are many movements in church culture, and the "seeker services" are nothing new. I don't mind them, so long as theology isn't watered down and morality isn't thrown out the window. But services are for the members also. Many things take place at church, not just people being saved. People also may need to be set free from addiction. People need to be taught more of the Bible so that it helps them in their daily lives. People need to be encouraged and strengthened. Services aren't just for the lost - in fact, mainly, they're for members. A commandment in the NT to "not forsake the assembling of yourselves together", i.e. "make sure you go to church", was written to the saved, not the lost.

Again, remember, I'm not trying to make accusations, just trying to help educate. And no, I'm not saying anyone is ignorant either.

 

[Reload in 5]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

I think we are all on the same page here. I too saw the comment
"in order to grow and increase attendance" and for a second had the same thought. Many Churches view success as the number of people in the building. They dont focus on the things that everyone has mentioned here. I dont think that is what you meant, as evidenced by your reply.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

I think we are all on the same page here. I too saw the comment
"in order to grow and increase attendance" and for a second had the same thought. Many Churches view success as the number of people in the building. They dont focus on the things that everyone has mentioned here. I dont think that is what you meant, as evidenced by your reply.

Well yeah, that's another issue, and yeah, it's not about numbers. Numbers are nice, and our job is to serve others, but I agree: it's not about building / numbers.

Besides, we can't all go to the same church: we all have different preferences. Not everyone likes a "rock & roll" service, and not everyone likes hymns, not everyone likes high mass, etc.

 

[Hoss]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

the deal is this...our church's future wasn't looking really good...i mean i won the "youngest father" award on father's day and i'm 32 :smack:

for whatever reason there is a huge gap of barely any 30 somethings and next to no 20 somethings and then we have quite a few teens and kids. the majority of our congregation is late 40's, 50, 60, and up. i don't know how this happened as i've only been going here for about a year (attended my father-in-laws church prior).

so we're trying to reach that demographic...now don't get me wrong...we're not "weeding" out older people and we are not "alienating" them either...it is difficult, but not impossible.

numbers aren't everything...but what they represent is important...it's important that people attend church regularly (as discussed earlier), and that they hear the Word of God and that they are given a place to come together in unity to Worship God and to grow as Christians...and mixed into those numbers are people who not only need a stronger relationship with Christ (as we all do), but who need to start a relationship with Christ.

 

[RW James]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

I think we are all on the same page here...

I agree... We are all servants in the same house... but I will have to take exception to this comment:

i can guarantee i'm the biggest hack on this board!

I believe I deserve that honor! Not only am I just about the oldest guy around here... I didn't really pickup guitar seriously until I was well into my 40's... and I have peripheral neuropathy which leaves my left little finger numb and pretty useless most of the time which means speed is not in my future... and I'm mostly deaf!

So I think I deserve the title of biggest hack!

 

[Hoss]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

i didn't start playing anything but "cowboy chords" on guitar until only a few months ago...seriously!

we should have a guitar "hack" contest

"i can butcher that song in.......................5 notes!"

"i can butcher it in................4!"

"i can butcher the song in 2 notes!"

"go ahead..........butcher that song!!!"

LOL!!! :smack: :banana: :laugh2: :smack: :banana: :laugh2:

 

[Dills]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

my 2 cents:

I used to have problems with my sound guy at church, (always the "its to loud turn yourself down" ) or its too boomy. But i have learnt to shift my focus, on trying to express my self on guitar the best way i can to God, so that he is pleased, but also beingg sensitive to others who are in the band, and let the sound guy do the rest (even if he is not very good).

, when, forming a worship team, we need people who are skilled at their instruments, and know how to play their instruments properly. Otherwise there will be confusion and the people coming to the church will not be able to follow. Their is also room for people to be trained. God gives gifts to certain people in his house, some to play an instument, some to run the security or admin etc etc. Once he has the right people in the right place, he wants them to use their gifts to their full potential. If we direct our focus on him first he will provide the right people in the right place. Sometimes tho God puts dud, musicians or sound guys to test our commitment to him, and get our minds off the sound and onto him.

In my opinion We worship God for, him and him alone, not to try and get more people to come to the church, God will do it if it is right. If we as musicians have everything we need but still cannot express ourselves fully in worship to God, I think that is our fault not the church's. There is a sound God wants us to tap into, and when it does get tapped into it is awesome, it is almost like the instuments start to speak, and there is purpose behind everything that is being played.

Dills

 

[Reload in 5]

Re: Remember the problems with the soundman at church i was having?

There is a sound God wants us to tap into, and when it does get tapped into it is awesome, it is almost like the instuments start to speak, and there is purpose behind everything that is being played.

Dills

Amen Brother !

and as far as the biggest hack thing goes, When I read that comment I knew the guy had never heard me play.
Seriously, I can easily name 4-5 guys at my church that are better guitarist than me. But God has not called them to play for youth worship, he called me. I know that means I am good enough for what he needs done there. And I love that fact !!