Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

[JBPanic]

First post after years of lurking...

I'm building a H-S-S Strat and effectively inserting 2 single coil pickups individually in space of the humbucker. Then I was going to keep the 5 way switch in place, but have DPDT switch to select which bridge single coil I'd want to use. I was also thinking I could get an On/On/On switch and have both singles in either series or parallel. Can this be done with this DPDT switch sitting between the standard 5 way and the pickups? Is the On/On/On DPDT the way to go here?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

Welcome to the forum!

The 2 singles-as-humbucker thing has been done a few times before, but the humbucker sound certainly suffers, and the construction is different than a true humbucker. A Stag Mag does this, but in series, it sounds like a very thick humbucker rather than a normal, open sounding one.

 

[JBPanic]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

Welcome to the forum!

The 2 singles-as-humbucker thing has been done a few times before, but the humbucker sound certainly suffers, and the construction is different than a true humbucker. A Stag Mag does this, but in series, it sounds like a very thick humbucker rather than a normal, open sounding one.

Thank you for the welcome, Mincer! I appreciate the response!

My goal isn't really for the humbucker sound anyways. This actually started as a Nashville Tele (Strat/Tele hybrid) project, but I just couldn't decide between keeping the tele bridge pup or switching to a p-90. I'm truly building a 4 single coil guitar with 2 of them in/near the bridge position. So I'm keeping the tele bridge and I'm using a steel poled Lindy Fralin to mimic a P-90 and placing them side by side in what would appear as a humbucker (yes, similar to the Stag Mag, with a tele bridge + steel poled bridge that I selected...think like the Duncan '59/Custom Hybrid. So think of this more as a modded Strat with an extra bridge pup than a traditional H-S-S guitar (even though that's what I referred to it as).

The challenge has been wiring up all 4 pickups with options for series/parallel. I'm making use of a 5 way switch wiring that I have (out of a Nashville Tele) that has the S-1 switch to put all the combinations in series or parallel.

Can I use an on/on/on DPDT to select one or the other bridge singles when the 5 way is selecting the bridge (Positions 3, 4, & 5 in this particular case)?

And ironically I'm also at the same time building a 2 StagMag H-H configuration Strat with Triple Shots and an Oak Grigsby 4-way selector to get Series/Parallel between the two...but that's another story...

 

[Nagisa]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

Now I don’t know the answer to this, but I would think 2 regular single coils side by side would suffer from the magnets interfering with one another?

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

This sounds like a case where P-rails may do what you want. Did you consider that?

 

[JBPanic]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

Now I don’t know the answer to this, but I would think 2 regular single coils side by side would suffer from the magnets interfering with one another?

I questioned that with Lindy Fralin as well, but he didn't seem to think so as he has done something similar. Plus the Strat pickups I'm using having AlNiCo 3's so shouldn't have as much pull either. We'll see though!

 

[JBPanic]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

This sounds like a case where P-rails may do what you want. Did you consider that?

Yeah, I actually have had P-Rails installed in a super Strat. This is similar in theory for sure, but it's like I'm trying to create my own version of it, I suppose. Good thought, but I'm really interested in seeing if I can do this myself.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

Others have done this sort of thing, maybe they will chime in. As I recall, there were a few sounds that were really, really close to each other, so some of it was redundant.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

I've done it with 2 vintage output single coils and it was pretty cool. There is string pull, but it works. I used a spin a split. If you want all 4 sounds you need a triple shot or 2 on/on switches/push pulls I believe.

https://goo.gl/images/nM1jun

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

This reminds me of the Robbie Robertson "last waltz" Strat which is being made by the Fender custom shop.

I guess its obvious, but you should get opposite magnetic poles for each of the 2 bridge pickup so they will hum-buck when connected in series or parallel.
Mounting two pickups with opposite magnetic poles side by side will slightly increase the strength of the magnetic field for each pickup. I guess the effect will be small - maybe around 5% increase in field strength.

My biggest concern with this idea is if you choose pickups the are too hot and overwound, the series combination is probably going to sound like mud. If that's the case, parallel connection might still work out.

I've been thinking about the best way to wire this, but it seems like one too many pickups for a 5-way blade switch.

 

[JBPanic]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

This reminds me of the Robbie Robertson "last waltz" Strat which is being made by the Fender custom shop.

I guess its obvious, but you should get opposite magnetic poles for each of the 2 bridge pickup so they will hum-buck when connected in series or parallel.
Mounting two pickups with opposite magnetic poles side by side will slightly increase the strength of the magnetic field for each pickup. I guess the effect will be small - maybe around 5% increase in field strength.

My biggest concern with this idea is if you choose pickups the are too hot and overwound, the series combination is probably going to sound like mud. If that's the case, parallel connection might still work out.

I've been thinking about the best way to wire this, but it seems like one too many pickups for a 5-way blade switch.

You’re on to something about the Robbie Robertson Strat...it’s very similar, somewhat inadvertently. Just happen to land there (would have saved me time if I had realized it to start with but I’d still be here).

As far as the poles, one of the bridge pups is already hum-cancelling and the other is not so I’ll lose that ability when in parallel or series. May be an adjustment I make later though. Good point.

I chose very low strength pickups with A3 magnets except for that P90 type in the bridge that is a bit hotter so I’d have a real variation in Bridge pups. Could be too much but all a part of the expirament.

As far as wiring, I’m going with the 5 way switch as if it’s a H-S-S guitar but looking to use an on/on/on DPDT as an intermediary between the bridge and the 5-way. I just don’t know enough about the DPDT to know if I can even do this, so let me ask a simple (and perhaps dumb) question... Does having the DPDT get me from leads for two pickups down to just the lead I need to wire into the 5-way? I know it does with the Triple Shot but I may be oversimplifying this.

 

[JBPanic]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

I've done it with 2 vintage output single coils and it was pretty cool. There is string pull, but it works. I used a spin a split. If you want all 4 sounds you need a triple shot or 2 on/on switches/push pulls I believe.

https://goo.gl/images/nM1jun

Clint...this is why I love this forum. Your link sent me down a rabbit hole but helped me get closer to what I'm looking for. I do want to wire this like a TripleShot and found this wiring diagram using a DPDT for a single PRail without the Triple Shot. So this may be what I need.

One question...what do you mean by "used a spin a split"?

 

[Adieu]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

A spinasplit is a rotary pickup selector switch with coil splitting positions

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

A spinasplit is a rotary pickup selector switch with coil splitting positions

I see it much more often as essentially a volume pot that only effects one coil as a humbucker. Much more versatile than a rotary switch.

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

As far as wiring, I’m going with the 5 way switch as if it’s a H-S-S guitar but looking to use an on/on/on DPDT as an intermediary between the bridge and the 5-way. I just don’t know enough about the DPDT to know if I can even do this, so let me ask a simple (and perhaps dumb) question... Does having the DPDT get me from leads for two pickups down to just the lead I need to wire into the 5-way? I know it does with the Triple Shot but I may be oversimplifying this.

Here is my suggested wiring for bridge pickup switching using and DPDT ON-ON-ON 3-position DPDT toggle switch. The three positions are 1. Bridge pickup B, 2. Both pickups A+B in series, 3. Bridge Pickup A.
Pickups are "open circuit" when they are not selected.

 

[JBPanic]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

Here is my suggested wiring for bridge pickup switching using and DPDT ON-ON-ON 3-position DPDT toggle switch. The three positions are 1. Bridge pickup B, 2. Both pickups A+B in series, 3. Bridge Pickup A.
Pickups are "open circuit" when they are not selected.

Thank you so much for the diagram. I'll give this a shot. Looks like exactly what I will need.

If I wanted to go parallel instead of series (may sound too beefy) what would change on the DPDT?

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

Here is the version that does parallel switching of the pickups.

 

[JBPanic]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

Here is the version that does parallel switching of the pickups.

Thanks again! Both of these make sense except for one question. For Bridge "A" pup it shows the black wire splitting to ground to the volume pot. How would you suggest I tie those together? I'd assume just cut and solder together, but wanted to make sure there wasn't some better way to maneuver this.

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

Instead of physically cutting and joining the wires together, you can take both black wires to the volume pot and solder them together there. Functionally its the same.

 

[JBPanic]

Re: Replace Humbucker with 2 Single Coils in H-S-S Strat

Instead of physically cutting and joining the wires together, you can take both black wires to the volume pot and solder them together there. Functionally its the same.

Good point. That sounds easier. Thanks!