Replicating a mystery pup

[Coma]

Let's for the sake of argument say I want to replicate a pair of pickups I have. No markings, manufacturing origins lost to the sands of time. What would I need to find out in order to start looking for something similar without it being a complete needle-in-a-haystack type situation?

 

[Bowtomecha]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

You could test the dcr of each coil and make a list of things like pole type and dimensions. Examine the magnet to see if it’s polished or not, if it’s Alnico or ceramic, there might even be marker on it saying what it is. Also, what wires are attached to which coils and how the pickups were originally wired. That’s a giveaway to who made it more often than not.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

And post some good clear photos along the the DC resistance numbers.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

Its going to be nigh on impossible really.
You can indeed get dcr to put you in the general ballpark (assuming you know the wire gauge).

But even then you can get a lot of tonal variation in pickups of the same construction and components.

 

[larryguitar]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

Its going to be nigh on impossible really.
You can indeed get dcr to put you in the general ballpark (assuming you know the wire gauge).

But even then you can get a lot of tonal variation in pickups of the same construction and components.

+1
Even things like the alloy grade of the polepieces and slugs can affect the tone, along with other hard-to-measure variables like bobbin sizing, wire insulation type, winding pattern and tension. You can get the gauge (possibly) and DCR, measure the Gauss of the magnet to try and determine the alloy grade and charging level, baseplate material, but there are too many other variables to actually count on 'replicating' the tone of the pickup.


Larry

 

[Mincer]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

I am pretty sure MJ could do it!

But I'd start by analyzing it scientifically. My problem is that I'd probably ruin the pickup taking it apart!

 

[Discharged]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

Let's for the sake of argument say I want to replicate a pair of pickups I have. No markings, manufacturing origins lost to the sands of time. What would I need to find out in order to start looking for something similar without it being a complete needle-in-a-haystack type situation?

The easiest way is to talk to your local winder; he'll take all the necessary measures to be able wind a replica.

/Peter

 

[Coma]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

The easiest way is to talk to your local winder; he'll take all the necessary measures to be able wind a replica.

/Peter

Not doing it myself, and don't know anyone.
At this point I'm mostly just curious about how accurate a replica could be, or even better if one could suss out as many specs about it as possible and then look for an approximation already on the market.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

There are a lot of variables to consider, but it's entirely possible that you can come close enough to feel satisfied.

For a proper replica, you'll need to know pretty much everything about the pickup...the gauge of the wire, the insulation type, the number of turns on each coil, the dimensions of the bobbins, the type of magnet used, spacer type/materials, pole piece material/type/lengths, baseplate material, etc.

To get in the ballpark with an off-the-shelf pickup, you'll still need to know a few things, such as the DC resistance, the wire gauge (and insulation type, if you can tell), and magnet used. Still, there's a lot of variation among pickups with otherwise "similar" specs, so it may take a couple tries to find what you're after, but at least that information will give you a baseline to operate from.

Can you post pictures of the pickups? Someone may be able to help identify them

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

I’ve been making pickups for about 15 years now, and have had to replicate an unknown or custom pickup more than once.

Once you know the wire gauge and DC resistance it’s not that hard. One trick I use is to weigh the bobbins on a digital scale. Now I know exactly how much wire in on it. Wire sometimes stretches when you wind a coil, and that will raise the DC resistance.

Then the other parts, steel poles, magnet strength etc., can be copied. Most pickups use pretty standardized parts these days. The tricky ones I did was a hand made ultra thin pickup for a Moses Graphite bass, and a few DeArmond rewinds.

But the point being that it’s not that hard to get a pickup that sounds extremely close to the one you’re copying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AlexR]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

Not doing it myself, and don't know anyone.
At this point I'm mostly just curious about how accurate a replica could be, or even better if one could suss out as many specs about it as possible and then look for an approximation already on the market.

Oh, well if its a winder thats completely different. Then they'll actually have some skills and be able to know through experience what they are looking at. More modern pickups will also have consistent wind characteristics, making deeper delving perhaps unnecessary.
They'll be able to look at the coil outer and have a good idea at the pattern it was wound with, be able to tell wire type and probably deduce gauge too. They'll look at the bobbin deformation and likely know wind tension. But the absolute only way to 100% nail the clone is in destructive analysis.
You'd be surprised how many PAF's (and other vintage pickups) have died in this way.

As merely a layman, you are only going off DCR essentially. And thats a very bad way to find soundalikes

 

[Discharged]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

Not doing it myself, and don't know anyone.

Then start by posting pics of the p'ups and provide a DC reading and the room temperature when it was taken.

Then wait for an answer from the fine people here. Be prepared to get just as many different suggestions as people answering.

/Peter

 

[Coma]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

Oh, well if its a winder thats completely different. Then they'll actually have some skills and be able to know through experience what they are looking at. More modern pickups will also have consistent wind characteristics, making deeper delving perhaps unnecessary.
They'll be able to look at the coil outer and have a good idea at the pattern it was wound with, be able to tell wire type and probably deduce gauge too. They'll look at the bobbin deformation and likely know wind tension. But the absolute only way to 100% nail the clone is in destructive analysis.
You'd be surprised how many PAF's (and other vintage pickups) have died in this way.

As merely a layman, you are only going off DCR essentially. And thats a very bad way to find soundalikes

Yeah, I sorta figured. DCR isn't everything in a pup. And magnets can porbably be easily identified? But then there's all the other stuff going on. And there's no way I'm risking destroying these pups.

 

[Coma]

Re: Replicating a mystery pup

Then start by posting pics of the p'ups and provide a DC reading and the room temperature when it was taken.

Then wait for an answer from the fine people here. Be prepared to get just as many different suggestions as people answering.

/Peter

That'd be kinda pointless. Regular black double bobbins. No markings anywhere on them, no labels. I've checked. Hell, I even emailed the japanse factory it was made in and they refused to tell me anything due to an NDA, though to be fair I'm willing to chalk that up to the language barrier. Hell, the guitar is nearly 30 years old and the brand is defunct.

Like I said, I mostly wanted to know what it takes to do a copy or what data is needed to get there. I'm not really planning on having anything cloned atm.