Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

[Lewguitar]

I'm a big fan of reverb and always use a little. I keep the reverb on my Fender Deluxe Reverb amps set at about 2 or 2 1/2 all of time. I've played with reverb my whole life.

To me, Fender reverb with tubes and springs is a must have in an amp and the two 20 watt amps I'm building for myself will have reverb.

It doesn't seem that there are any pedals that sound as good as genuine Fender reverb.

My Line 6 Verbzilla does as good a job of creating reverb of any pedal I've used, but Fender reverb with tubes and springs is still better.

It's expensive though. Maybe that's why you don't see many amps with built in tube reverb.

Yet people seem to want reverb, and I see a lot of posts asking for advice about reverb pedals.

Seems like lots of people want reverb, don't think reverb pedals sound as good as real spring reverb, wish their amp had come with reverb...yet most amps don't come with reverb.

Kind of ironic.

 

[Tor]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

I don't know.. I don't care all that much for the sound and the features of the old type reverbs in amps. I've been through a few reverb pedals (Verbzilla, Strymon BlueSky, Eventide Space), and the search ended with the Neunaber Wet. But I'm not very traditional in what I want from my reverb.. Mine is used to create a really huge ambience..

 

[Aceman]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

Lew: Peavey Valverb.

It's the Reverb unit of the house band in Heaven. It's a wicked awesome Tremolo too.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

Ya know, I rarely use reverb but I still like a good sounding reverb and all these digital reverb pedals just don't cut it for me...not even close.

I've only heard a few that were even passable to my ears.

As for reverb built into amps...there are lots of folks hat build amps with reverb but most of them have a negative effect on the rest of the amp.

Compare a Dr. Z Maz w/ and w/o reverb...the non reverb version sounds better...compare a Matchless Clubman and a Clubman Reverb, the non reverb version sounds better.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

I use Reverb a lot like Lew does. I usually gig with a 67 or 68 Deluxe Reverb. Its a great amp and has a really good clean tone up to about 4.5 the it starts to get hairy. I also own a Bogner Shiva and in my opinion the Shiva reverb is actually better then the Deluxe. My Super Reverb is again better then the Shiva. I think it has to do with the size of the tank mounted in the amp. The SR has a longer spring and the reverb is just beautiful. I do use a Line 6 Verbzilla in an amp that has no reverb, but the issue is if I kick in an OD pedal & the reberb the reverb gets bigger if you will. Its actually kind of cool but its not the same as having it in the amp. those old Fenders without Reverb were lacking something also. Obviously not just the reverb, they don't have as much balls as the same amps with Reverb. Lew can fill you on on the specifics of this better then I can.

I have been searching for a real Fender Reverb tank to go with my amp that doesn't have reverb, but they are pricey so I have been waiting for the right deal...

 

[Aceman]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

Valverb

 

[Hoss]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

I use reverb for a variety of sounds, not just the open/springy sound of a tank.

That's why i really like my Trinity.

 

[ErikH]

Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

I love me some reverb. Doesn't matter to me if it's old school spring or modern digital. I'm just not picky like that. My Valvetronix amp has it and it works for me. No complaints. My Marshall doesn't have any effect built in so I'll use some echo or delay in the loop. I'd like to get a Holy Grail to run through it instead.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

Lew: Peavey Valverb.

It's the Reverb unit of the house band in Heaven. It's a wicked awesome Tremolo too.

Valverb

You must be a fan.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

The best reverb is the real thing.

And by that, I of course mean a nice room.

Whether it's spring or digital, reverb effects are just attempts at faking the sound of playing in a big, echo-filled room. And honestly, digital 'verb does a much better job at sounding like real 'verb than spring does. I've never heard a spring that sounds like a real room.

Spring reverb can sound good, but it will always sound like spring reverb. If that's the effect you're going for, that's what you want. If, however, you want to sound like you're playing in a nice hall or echo chamber, digital is the way to go.

In either case, the key is to put your reverb at the end of your signal chain. If you get your distortion from the amp, this means putting it in the effects loop. Nothing sounds worse than distorting reverb.

 

[Andrew Lamprecht]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

The best reverb is the real thing.

And by that, I of course mean a nice room.

Whether it's spring or digital, reverb effects are just attempts at faking the sound of playing in a big, echo-filled room. And honestly, digital 'verb does a much better job at sounding like real 'verb than spring does. I've never heard a spring that sounds like a real room.

Spring reverb can sound good, but it will always sound like spring reverb. If that's the effect you're going for, that's what you want. If, however, you want to sound like you're playing in a nice hall or echo chamber, digital is the way to go.

HUGE +1

 

[Frankly]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

IFLHO, reverb is awesome.

Thank you.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

First of all, I need a way to be notified every time Frankly posts, because I'll immediately hit the like button.

Secondly, as much as an actual spring reverb sounds great in certain amps, I like the versatility of a digital unit for hall or plate reverb sounds as well. I really like my TC Electronics Hall of Fame, but wahwah's demo a while back of the Neunaber Wet really made me second guess myself. Also, I take a bit of issue with the idea that reverb is something a person can pick out and say, "The reverb on that tone is really great." It either works and does not draw attention to itself, or it takes away from the song. I think ambience is a great word for it.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

Unless there's a way to get an analog plate reverb that will fit on a pedalboard, digital is my shizz.

 

[youngthrasher9]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

I've never really heard a reverb in amp or pedal form better than the reverb on my friends blackstar HT-60. I haven't tried a whole lot of pedals, but this reverb sounded like he was playing at the bottom of the abyss, and I was listening at the top.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

the spring is king

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

Christian brought up an interesting subject of non reverb amps having better tone than reverb models.
I've also heard this in person, as well as hearing numerous builders making the same comment.
If there's a tradeoff to be had, it's usually on the side of buying combos that have spring reverb.

And I tend to prefer heads that come with FX loops, and even better if they're mixable. A big bonus if the loop is out of the circuit when not being used. As for FX loops, a Holy Grail reverb always works fine for me, as it's usually subtle and authentic sounding. I'm also starting to use some modulation and delay pedals in FX loops.

So I guess for me, it's combos that have nice tube driven spring reverb, and heads that must feature an FX loop.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

If the Deluxe Reverb had no reverb I would never have bought it. Sometimes it's off, sometimes I bring it up to 5, most of the time it's on 2.

I agree that spring reverb it it's own thing and it does not sound like natural room reflections. But as an effect I think it goes so superbly with fender guitars and fender amps. It may not be totally natural sounding "depth" but I love it.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

If the Deluxe Reverb had no reverb I would never have bought it. Sometimes it's off, sometimes I bring it up to 5, most of the time it's on 2.

I agree that spring reverb it it's own thing and it does not sound like natural room reflections. But as an effect I think it goes so superbly with fender guitars and fender amps. It may not be totally natural sounding "depth" but I love it.

The Deluxe Reverb is one amp that sounds better with reverb than without. The Deluxe Reverb has more gain than the plain Deluxe. And the reverb recovery circuit can be tweaked to provide more gain and a ballsier sound than the factory stock circuit even with the reverb on zero. One reason my Deluxe Reverbs sound so good!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Reverb: pedals vs. built into the amp

As for reverb built into amps...there are lots of folks hat build amps with reverb but most of them have a negative effect on the rest of the amp.

Compare a Dr. Z Maz w/ and w/o reverb...the non reverb version sounds better...compare a Matchless Clubman and a Clubman Reverb, the non reverb version sounds better.

The Dr. Z Maz uses a cathode follower circuit, like a '59 Fender Bassman, or vintage 60's Marshall or Vox.

That circuit and tone stack model was used in the tweed Fender Bassman, then copied in Britain and it became the Marshall JTM45 and 50 watt and 100 watt circuit and the Vox AC30 circuit in the 60's.

I know Dr. Z's early amps all used a cathode follower like a tweed Bassman and were modeled on that Bassman, Marshall, Vox tone stack and cathode follower circuit which is difficult to add reverb to, altho Dr. Z did find a way.

The cathode follower combined with the Bassman style tone stack is an absolute must if you're going to build an amp that sounds like a '59 Bassman, Marshall or a Vox. But none of those amps had reverb originally and the cathode follower circuit doesn't provide an easy place to insert reverb in the circuit.

The blackface Fender circuit works great with reverb and sounds great with reverb, and even when the reverb is turned to zero it adds gain to the amp, rather than take away anything.