JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
I don’t know... they gave Rob a million dollar sign on bonus almost 18 years ago.
I don’t know... they gave Rob a million dollar sign on bonus almost 18 years ago.
Reverb Ridiculousness
- Thread starter Gtrjunior
- Start date
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
I remember an interview with Gary Moore where he talked about how he had heard the guys from Metallica were spending a bunch of time behind the mixing board trying to figure out how to dial in Gary's tone and he laughed and told them all they need is a real '59, a Guv'ner pedal, and a JTM45 and told them you've got the money now guys go buy a real '59. The irony.
I remember an interview with Gary Moore where he talked about how he had heard the guys from Metallica were spending a bunch of time behind the mixing board trying to figure out how to dial in Gary's tone and he laughed and told them all they need is a real '59, a Guv'ner pedal, and a JTM45 and told them you've got the money now guys go buy a real '59. The irony.
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
It's been that long already? And weird I still think of Rob as the outsider, the newest replacement (great bass player of course.)
metalchurch79
New member
Jacew
New member
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
Nah... Dry and shrill like LP's often are
Great piece though! Gary Moore is one iconic guitarist and I love his music.
Pearly is by far the best LP tone I've heard.
I wonder how they lost ability to make them that way... If they're so much better than what Gibson has made since...
Not questioning the price though. If they sell for that, why not... People pay much more for a historic stuff with really no practical use whatsoever...
Nah... Dry and shrill like LP's often are
Great piece though! Gary Moore is one iconic guitarist and I love his music.
Pearly is by far the best LP tone I've heard.
I wonder how they lost ability to make them that way... If they're so much better than what Gibson has made since...
Not questioning the price though. If they sell for that, why not... People pay much more for a historic stuff with really no practical use whatsoever...
Thundermtn
New member
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
I think age and material composition are the difference. I'm also betting some of the stuff they won't spec correctly b/c they always need something "better" to sell the next gen of historic's to guys that already have at least one.
I wouldn't have bought my R8 if it wasn't so close in tone to the real deal, I had to play a effn boatload of the mfers to get one that was close though.
I think age and material composition are the difference. I'm also betting some of the stuff they won't spec correctly b/c they always need something "better" to sell the next gen of historic's to guys that already have at least one.
I wouldn't have bought my R8 if it wasn't so close in tone to the real deal, I had to play a effn boatload of the mfers to get one that was close though.
metalchurch79
New member
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
Id say Kirk could probably swing the asking price.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=kirk+...980a244e6835f1ff352275db2&cc=US&setlang=en-US
Id say Kirk could probably swing the asking price.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=kirk+...980a244e6835f1ff352275db2&cc=US&setlang=en-US
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
Jace - There were many happy accidents that went into the mix.
The first was accidentally NOT making them the way Seth Lover had intended. That included using machines for mass production not really set up for such small bobbins - machines winding each in their own way, and each of the (3 or 4) stations of each winder having its own idiosyncratic wind pattern. If you look at coils, they often have the wire bunched up on one end or the other, or with a dip in the middle and bunched on both flanges. The mixture of such variances and the way that coils were randomly chosen made for some incredible pickups.
Then you have the very inconsistent materials - the best of the day but still not very even. The wire and the loose tolerances of thickness of both copper and insulation matter. The poor purity of metals might also help explain the way modern mags don't quite sound the same, and things like screws and keeper bars help shape the magnetic field so composition matters here too.
The modern clone winders go through all of these aspects - and supposedly with pretty accurate results (I have played clones but not PAF's, so I can only take the word of those who have played both). But even then, with 2 sets of clones wound the same but 1 with the 1959 era wire and the other modern, there is still a difference in the 'depth' of the result.
Modern pickups that don't try and replicate any aspect of the old pickups have to do much more to 'compensate' for certain missing elements, but then having other artefacts appear. eg - If you want that nice biting top-end that vintage pickups have you might be tempted to use an A5 magnet - but you lose the fullness of the originals, or might make it a bit scooped in the process.
Jace - There were many happy accidents that went into the mix.
The first was accidentally NOT making them the way Seth Lover had intended. That included using machines for mass production not really set up for such small bobbins - machines winding each in their own way, and each of the (3 or 4) stations of each winder having its own idiosyncratic wind pattern. If you look at coils, they often have the wire bunched up on one end or the other, or with a dip in the middle and bunched on both flanges. The mixture of such variances and the way that coils were randomly chosen made for some incredible pickups.
Then you have the very inconsistent materials - the best of the day but still not very even. The wire and the loose tolerances of thickness of both copper and insulation matter. The poor purity of metals might also help explain the way modern mags don't quite sound the same, and things like screws and keeper bars help shape the magnetic field so composition matters here too.
The modern clone winders go through all of these aspects - and supposedly with pretty accurate results (I have played clones but not PAF's, so I can only take the word of those who have played both). But even then, with 2 sets of clones wound the same but 1 with the 1959 era wire and the other modern, there is still a difference in the 'depth' of the result.
Modern pickups that don't try and replicate any aspect of the old pickups have to do much more to 'compensate' for certain missing elements, but then having other artefacts appear. eg - If you want that nice biting top-end that vintage pickups have you might be tempted to use an A5 magnet - but you lose the fullness of the originals, or might make it a bit scooped in the process.
Ayrton
New member
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/ki...-green-and-gary-moores-les-paul-see-it-action
https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/ki...-green-and-gary-moores-les-paul-see-it-action
Gtrjunior
Well-known member
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
I’m glad that the guitar owner is a player and not a collector. A guitar like that needs to be played, not dis-played.
I’m glad that the guitar owner is a player and not a collector. A guitar like that needs to be played, not dis-played.
Thundermtn
New member
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
He ain't Gary, but it's still pretty killer.
He ain't Gary, but it's still pretty killer.
Jacew
New member
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
I know. But when that all depends uncontrollable variations, half of them should be worse than average PAF clone... If it weren't it wouldn't be that difficult to recreate.
And they're 60 years old pickups. They will be smoother and it's impossible to test how they really used to sound. People's experience how those pickups sounded are hardly useful either, because we all know how everything used to be better back then...
All in all, I think while there certainly is some "magic" pickups out there, like original PG for instance, most old PAFs are really just old pickups. In the end the pickups are not huge factor in the way your guitar plays anyway. Meaningful, but not as big as people make it to be.
I know. But when that all depends uncontrollable variations, half of them should be worse than average PAF clone... If it weren't it wouldn't be that difficult to recreate.
And they're 60 years old pickups. They will be smoother and it's impossible to test how they really used to sound. People's experience how those pickups sounded are hardly useful either, because we all know how everything used to be better back then...
All in all, I think while there certainly is some "magic" pickups out there, like original PG for instance, most old PAFs are really just old pickups. In the end the pickups are not huge factor in the way your guitar plays anyway. Meaningful, but not as big as people make it to be.
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
Well, the owner of ReWind pickups (and author of a PAF book) has had more than his fair share of pickups PAF and otherwise on his bench.....this is his quote about his experience with all of the PAF's he's had over the years:
"I keep telling people, I'll buy all those PAFs that fall into that category of sounding "mediocre or worse" at a fairly discounted rate but nobody has ever taken me up on it. :dunno:
I've never heard an original PAF, in good working order, that wasn't an excellent pickup on its own. I've heard some that were in the wrong position of the wrong guitar or had poorly charged magnets or other problems. Never one that was just a bad sounding pickup, though.
If anyone has some mediocre or worse sounding PAFs, I'll volunteer to be the fool that you can unload them onto."
Well, the owner of ReWind pickups (and author of a PAF book) has had more than his fair share of pickups PAF and otherwise on his bench.....this is his quote about his experience with all of the PAF's he's had over the years:
"I keep telling people, I'll buy all those PAFs that fall into that category of sounding "mediocre or worse" at a fairly discounted rate but nobody has ever taken me up on it. :dunno:
I've never heard an original PAF, in good working order, that wasn't an excellent pickup on its own. I've heard some that were in the wrong position of the wrong guitar or had poorly charged magnets or other problems. Never one that was just a bad sounding pickup, though.
If anyone has some mediocre or worse sounding PAFs, I'll volunteer to be the fool that you can unload them onto."
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
You really can't think of things like that as "music gear" anymore than you can think of a classic car as a vehicle. None of that stuff "functionally" is worth what they go for, and there are infinitely better performing options.
It is that they are original and rare - that's all. And this is a rare case where supply /demand actually works the way it is described on graphs.
But let go of any illusions about tone, etc....It's just a rare original product. The end.
You really can't think of things like that as "music gear" anymore than you can think of a classic car as a vehicle. None of that stuff "functionally" is worth what they go for, and there are infinitely better performing options.
It is that they are original and rare - that's all. And this is a rare case where supply /demand actually works the way it is described on graphs.
But let go of any illusions about tone, etc....It's just a rare original product. The end.
dpaterson
New member
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
Well one thing nobody has considered I don't think:
Pretty sure a new $2 900 guitar would do more for the ladies than a rusted 'ol $2 900 pickup!!! LOL!!! I mean: just imagine the scene and the look on her face on the first date and you're trying to impress??? LOL!!! "You gotta check out this pickup..."!!! LOL!!!
Well one thing nobody has considered I don't think:
Pretty sure a new $2 900 guitar would do more for the ladies than a rusted 'ol $2 900 pickup!!! LOL!!! I mean: just imagine the scene and the look on her face on the first date and you're trying to impress??? LOL!!! "You gotta check out this pickup..."!!! LOL!!!
B
Ben1962
Guest
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
Probably a forum member offered a 100 bux lol
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
Gtrjunior
Well-known member
B
Ben1962
Guest
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
No, not this time. Yet
Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
Re: Reverb Ridiculousness
To be fair though......if you were thinking to impress someone and went for a guitar or pickup as your go-to, you're pretty much at the bottom of the barrel anyway.
To be fair though......if you were thinking to impress someone and went for a guitar or pickup as your go-to, you're pretty much at the bottom of the barrel anyway.
Similar threads
