RIP EMTY AHB3...

[Inflames626]

Prong using a scooped Marshall sound on "Rude Awakening." From 1996 when Ministry, NIN, Filter, and other industrial music was popular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JUvhZAgQbw

A brighter tone on this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc6IBG1pEkg

Again, these are most likely solid state.

I tend to prefer this fuzzy, bright upper mid tone these days to a Mesa tone--something similar to this. Very scooped and sounding like early Dream Theater. Very muscular tone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QAiZkovJXY

And of course Devin Townsend using Mesas and Marks on Ocean Machine Biomech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmr5XJw_c7Q

 

[Inflames626]

Example of what I consider a "flabby" Mesa tone. Soilwork's "Figure Number 5," from 2003, an album that was not well received at the time. They've re-released it. I still don't like the production, which was intentionally warmer and more vintage after the slickness that was "Natural Born Chaos."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkGjKT3Jb-I&list=OLAK5uy_mUXiPi09CWJdkAp53li6gshQ2uMZR0dEg&index=3

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Oh, man, lots of stuff to go over, LOL.

I liked my Marshall MF350 when I had it. It's far from my dream amp, but it's not as bad as people make them out to be (if you know how to dial them in and you boost them). This was me way back when. I hate in-the-room iPhone clips, but that's the best I could do at the time, LOL. I liked it because it was kinda like the anti-Marshall Marshall. Like I said, far from my dream amp, but if I found one for cheap, I'd like to pick it up again.

I'm pretty familiar with POD Farm. I used it extensively back in the day. I liked the Triple Rectifier model. Always boosted, of course. I never got along with the JCM800 model, but then again, I don't know how realistic it was. It always appeared to me as it was way higher gain than the real deal. Then again, it's been like what... 15 years since I've used POD Farm. I lost the license when my POD XT died.

POD Farm was cool, I just thought the cab sims were the weakest link, as it's always with Line 6. Luckily, you can use IR's now with the Line 6 stuff. I love my HX Stomp.

I always quad-track. That's really the only way to get the 2000's Melodeath/Metalcore sound that I always chase. I record 4 takes as tight as I can. The clip I posted is just that. That is a pretty simple riff, tho, so it wasn't hard to pin down. I pan one pair of guitars hard right and left. I pan the other pair 85% left and right, respectively, and have that pair 3dB lower. That is that sound.

I get what you're saying about the "oscilations". There is an inherent almost "loose" quality to quad-tracking. But that's kind of its charm. It's more about the wall of sound kinda deal than the extreme tightness, clarity, and definition. Then again, if you're a monster player like many of the players we look up to are, then you'll be fine. I wouldn't be quad-tracking if I was playing extremely technical Death Metal or something, but for chunky Melodeath ala 90's In Flames or groovy Metalcore ala 2000's As I Lay Dying, it works.

I like your In Flames clip. The guitars sound cool. What you're doing seems to be working for you.

I was big into production as well, my man. This is the best I achieved, personally. I always struggled because my listening environment was ****, so I always tend to dial in too much low-end. But this was my best attempt at doing something Melodeath-y Gothenburg-y. This was my old Krank Rev Jr. boosted with an MXR GT-OD, with a Marshall cab with Chinese V30's mic'd with a 57. Quad-tracked, of course. The guitar was an Ibanez RGA121 with an EMG Het in the bridge, IIRC. I spent months mixing my own stuff, but I never got anyone to sing, so I just kinda left it and never did anything with it.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wqhxc...9nprsa342&dl=0

 

[Inflames626]

Much thanks, Rex_Rocker ! It only takes me about a year to do a song because I have to do nearly everything myself. I'd rather have praise from people like you and those on these forums than people who don't play.

Your Mode 4 sounded good to me. Yeah it did have a lot of low end but that's easy to do when a mic isn't designed to take a high sound pressure level.

Good video as well. I consider the Gothenburg tone (God I hate the word "melodeath") to more or less be a "Justice for All" type tone but usually tuned to C standard. Lots of fizzy preamp gain. It's scooped but not as much as say Pantera and you have to be really careful about what you notch out so it doesn't disappear in the mix. There number of guitars is indeterminate because there are so many tracks. Usually they are just holding whole, half, or quarter notes while the melody plays faster notes above. The bass especially will just ride quarter notes like in a lot of older In Flames.

My buddy Justin that I collaborated with on the In Flames track is somehow 10 years younger and yet much better than me at about everything. I'd check out this now defunct band Poisonwood. He did just about everything himself on this but the vocals and bass. His drummer Dan did the drums on this live but recorded it was Superior Drummer because it was faster to record (I prefer BFD). The flanger says EVH and he's got a big Dave Murray influence in his solo tone. We're not in a band together but we almost always collaborate. I'm proud of the little guy.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=poisonwood+upon+the+shore

They're getting expensive now but the old Randall RG100ES are still a bargain IMO. The only thing my Cyclone has over it is more mid shaping options (and it's noisy). The old ones look funny with their shag looking texture on the outside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ9FeCz1Dng

Here's the video where Tosin talks about the differences between Fluences and others not being that pronounced when in humbucking mode under high gain. It should be queued to the part at 12:00.

https://youtu.be/az4fCS09RaQ?t=721

I have the same issue with a bad mixing setup. I mix through 5.1 speakers. So I tell myself that I'm mixing on something the same (or better) than what most people will be listening to. I tend to cut a lot of low end out because of that.

I was especially happy with the bass on the In Flames track (a stock Peavey Foundation 5 passive bass--Jazz type) because you could hear it separated out against the guitars even at low volume without much issue and the emphasis was on the fundamental and not overtones.

The Judas Priest tune I did on P bass, by comparison, was really boomy, but the drums were as well, being in a John Bonham/Zep vein, and I was going for a 1970s tone generally.

Again, I much appreciate your compliments and the effort you put into our threads generally.

 

[Inflames626]

Also, I'm sure you know this, but it's worth trying in a plugin IMO:

https://youtu.be/i1LCU9DSHmU

 

[Rex_Rocker]

It's always good chatting with you, my man. Nice to hear from another guy who likes Gothenburg Metal but that has a different approach.

I really like that band from the youtube videos you linked me to! I'm going to listen further.

As far as drums, I used Steven Slate on mine. Not sure if they're still around. I wish I had time to write and record stuff like that nowadays. I really enjoyed it back in the day, but then again, I never ever really got anywhere.

Try the Helix plugin if you have the chance, man. It's familiar if you're coming from POD Farm, but I do feel it feels and reacts more realistically.

 

[Inflames626]

Rex_Rocker , you can get all sorts of tones from a variety of form factors now. My buddy Justin used a Headrush pedal for a long time.

Meanwhile, I'm still stuck in high school in the late 90s thinking rack mounts: Triaxis and a 90:90.

Jesper and Bjorn from In Flames were using 5150 II's (not as well regarded an amp as the 5150 and 5150 III) and Pod Pro XT rack mounts in 2004 I think. They also used this on Tokyo Showdown.

I was a GIT student when the POD kidney bean came out and it still doesn't sound that bad to me 24 years later, especially for solos.

Meanwhile the DSL2000 head I tried when those first came out didn't sound that great to me in the Hollywood Guitar Center. I realize now it's because it wasn't boosted.

Here's my original stuff from 1996-2006 if you're interested. Recorded back then with live amps (Carvin MTS3200 and Randall Cyclone). Drum samples are terrible by today's standards but I still like the riffs. Singers were always hard to find:

https://www.reverbnation.com/devolvear

 

[dave74]

Nah, the solderless stuff is 2000's for sure. My first EMG set was the ZW set with the old logo, and it was solderless. I must have bought it when I was in high-school around 2002? 2003?

The newer logo stuff sounded the same for like 15 years or so. It's just relatively recently that I noticed that change.

Looks like they debuted them at the summer namm 2010, but some were out by the end of 09. Of course the quick-connect to the actual pickup's back had been that way for a very long time.
https://www.premierguitar.com/gear/s...s-w-rob-turner

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Looks like they debuted them at the summer namm 2010, but some were out by the end of 09. Of course the quick-connect to the actual pickup's back had been that way for a very long time.
https://www.premierguitar.com/gear/s...s-w-rob-turner

Interesting. I thought I would've been sooner. By 2009, I was in college. Don't remember joining the game that late. When I first got the ZW set, I just installed it inverted. 85 in the bridge, 81 in the neck, because that was the cool thing to do at the time.

 

[Inflames626]

2009 was late for me. I was nearly 30 by then. Most of my stuff was done between 1995-2005.

Quality, especially in Gothenburg, began to drop off around 2002-4 and never recovered.

The further they got away from Fredrik Nordstrom and Studio Fredman, the worse off the bands were, I thought.

2002-04 in the scene was like 1990-2 in the thrash scene. Most were trying to commercialize and mainstream their sound. Harsh verses, singable, melodic choruses.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I don't know. I never stopped liking what Dark Tranquillity have put out, and as much as nobody raved about At the Gates' return, I absolutely loved At War with Reality, and to this date, it's one of my favorite records along with Slaughter of the Soul. Anything Tompa is involved in, I love, TBH. The Halo Effect is fantastic. I don't love Amon Amarth, but their best record was from 2008. I very much loved The Haunted up until when Ola replaced Anders. The Panic Broadcast is my favorite Soilwork album too.

The big Gothenburg boom was in the 90's up until the mid 2000's, you're right, but plenty of good stuff sitll comes from there, IMO. I think it was just In Flames that kinda went down the drain, LOL. I still like some stuff by In Flames, but it certainly doesn't hit as hard as Whoracle, Jester, or Colony for me. Still, though, I've always liked At the Gates the best out of those bands.

 

[Seashore]

I used to love the Gothenburg stuff. For my money the whole scene jumped the shark in the late 90s. The last album Dark Tranquillity put out that caught me was The Mind's I, and even that was a letdown from The Gallery. I hated ATG's comeback stuff until the last one they did, it finally felt like the songs went somewhere interesting again, like they were living up to their potential instead of just going for safe paint-by-numbers songs. It was more frustrating than anything else because some of the riffs on those other two albums were really good but they were sandwiched in filler. The Red In The Sky Is Ours is still my fave. "Silence Of The World Beyond" by A Canorous Quintet is an underappreciated gem from that scene.

 

[Inflames626]

Gburg bands hit the same wall thrash bands did in the 90s.

Fans: "Innovate, but sound the same!"

Bands: "Uh, how?"

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I don't expect every song by every band I listen to to sound innovative, personally.

Then again, I'm kind of a grandpa stuck in the 90's and 2000's, LOL.

Listen to The Halo Effect if you haven't though. Kinda like what In Flames would've sounded like if they haven't gotten downhill after Jesper left.

 

[Inflames626]

I don't expect every song by every band I listen to to sound innovative, personally.

Then again, I'm kind of a grandpa stuck in the 90's and 2000's, LOL.

Listen to The Halo Effect if you haven't though. Kinda like what In Flames would've sounded like if they haven't gotten downhill after Jesper left.

I agree with Anders Friden that HE sounds more like Dark Tranquillity, but that's because Stanne's voice is so distinct.

Jesper 2000 and before was a boss. Then he got into his addiction issues and Bjorn and Anders started sidelining him as a songwriter. Jesper was probably my favorite musician until it seemed like he wasn't into it anymore.

If Jesper had made a comeback with Halo Effect sounding like Jesper's old band Dimension Zero, I would have been very happy. This is basically the post 2000 In Flames everyone wanted.

I don't think Jesper can/wants to write stuff like this anymore. His bandmate Euge Valovirta from Cyhra says Jesper isn't really interested in that sound anymore.

Plus in DZ Jesper was with Glenn Ljungstrom (co-guitarist from Lunar Strain to Whoracle), and later added on Daniel Antonsson (briefly bassist in Dark Tranquillity for We Are the Void but much better as a guitarist).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd4SJQuvr8g

Edit: then there's this ass kicker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugEmVy98EdU

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Oh, yeah, I'm no stranger to Dimension Zero. Love that band too.

And yeah, I'm not saying that Halo sounds like old In Flames. I'm saying that's what I personally think IF would have sounded like if they had continued evolving with Jesper in the band. I actually don't mind new IF. They have some good catchy songs/riffs here and there. It's just many songs are pretty meh by them nowadays. Siren Charms was just unlisteable to me, but later on, they kinda went back to the same Alternative-ish sound they had with silight tinges of old In Flames here and there. It's like listenign to a different (worse) band from the old stuff that I really liked, but I still get some enjoyment out of their new stuff sometimes.

I saw that interview with Anders as well. He seemed salty. Like almost pissed that Halo sounded so good, LOL. I don't agree with the statement saying that they sound like Dark Tranquillity. Other than the vocals, they don't. At all. Many of the Halo songs are pretty upbeat. Dark Tranquillity is the opposite of that like 180 degrees.

 

[Inflames626]

DT is synth heavy because Brandstrom took over as main songwriter/producer after Sundin, Henriksson, and Jivarp left. Unlike most bands, most DT was a collaborative effort of every member, although some put more into certain albums than others.

These days I consider DT to be a Stanne solo project, regretfully. They've done a great job trying to keep the same sound. Henriksson manages them. Sundin still does artwork. They are trying to keep it together. But between 2007-10 between Fiction and We are the Void they lost it. Not sure why. Archangelsk was a great tune. Her Silent Language. Etc.

My nose kind of rankled when I saw Heafy was on Halo Effect. Trivium, Atreyu, all those bands who were my age and copying Gothenburg via Massachusetts metalcore I didn't really like. To me it's a purely European sound, grounded in European folk music, that Americans (myself included) have no real business making with any sense of authenticity.

I saw Unearth I think around 2007 when Slayer was touring Christ Illusion and Ken Susi got his guitar out and started doing CPR on it on stage. I thought, "This new generation is &*()ing ridiculous."

A lot of Halo seems kind of lazy compared to old stuff. Like, I loved Niclas Engelin in Gardenian. But I didn't hear any full blown solos in Halo Effect like he used to do in Gardenian (Self-Proclaimed Messiah). He does melodies. Jesper used to do a ton of melodies. Then we was demoted to rhythm for newer IF stuff. Bjorn started becoming a badass and using wah. And now in Halo, if Jesper's even there for the gig, he and Niclas basically play the riffs underneath and the melodies are backing tracks.

I love these guys as people. Hell, I had the privilege of meeting Jesper for about 5 mins back in 2000 (he was pounding the brews even then). They're on the upswing for me, but not back yet.

I saw that interview. And yeah Anders is salty because most old fans dislike him for taking the band in a commercial/Korn/emo direction. But some newer stuff is good. I "I, the Mask." "Burn," "Call My Name," etc.

Imagine if they had used Niclas to his fullest potential. He's a better guitarist than Bjorn is, IMO. But they have turned IF into Bjorn doing all music, Anders doing all vocals and the whole "feel" of the band. I don't like it.

The vibe I get from Anders is a guy approaching 50 who doesn't really like metal anymore and is embracing his Depeche Mode/Cardigans/other bands he likes side. A lot like Akerfeldt in that regard. They're both "over" metal. This is regrettable and predictable in a band's middle age period. Then they try to do a comeback in their later years where they "redi$cover" their roots.

Bjorn and Jesper, left alone in a room, get along fine, I think. Jesper and Anders alone, not so much.

Jesper didn't like the more commercial direction after maybe Reroute to Remain. Anders would blame Jesper for not contributing. Jesper was seeing he was losing influence and drink/use drugs more. Anders would steer the band even more commercial. Snowball effect. In Flames flickered out.

Niclas in full beast mode, Gardenian, 1999:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI57bntD-rU

Solo for Self-Proclaimed Messiah, 2000:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNAD6vEMDUo

Mindless Domination, epic riff and solo, 1997:

https://youtu.be/LpBIjhqyCTE?list=PLB24955D1699AAF72&t=118

Jim Kjell had some of the best riffs and vocals since Hetfield, IMO.

 

[Inflames626]

Plus, if IF has an inevitable reunion with Jesper, who is going to play Chris Broderick's parts (like the sweep arpeggios on the newer stuff)? Neither Jesper or Bjorn do that.

I feel like this "Foregone" period will be throwaway material and not performed live in 5-10 years.

 

[Inflames626]

Soilwork also deserves a lot of blame for watering down Gburg because they made the genre's songs formulaic sung choruses and harsh verses, with "Natural Born Chaos" being a prime example. Everyone wanted to copy that directly or indirectly.

"The Chainheart Machine" was their prime, IMO.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I love Unearth, LOL. And KSE. And As I Lay Dying before Tim went crazy, LOL. I just love anything Gothenburg-related. As long as the band sounds more Metal than Core, I like it.

I mean, when I first started listening to Metal, Nu Metal was the thing. I then got into In Flames and Cradle of Filth, and realized how bad Nu Metal really was, LOL. Then Nu Metal died, and Metalcore came in, and for a while, I just thought that's what Metal sounded like until I discovered like the heavier stuff. I do, however, have a big vain fixation for good production, so anything that's not mixed well, I really have a hard time getting into unless it's really really good.

It's just the Metalcore that's borderline Emo like Bullet for My Valentine or Atreyu that I dislike. And even then, Bullet for My Valentine and Trivium at least have the production factor going for them. I hate that Matt Heafy guy, tho. He's like the modern Dave Mustaine who swears his band is the best thing to ever happen to Metal ever, LOL.

I do love when Soilwork used to sound kinda like At the Gates, just crazier. But I also like their Pop Metal stuff. Really catchy. They're not my favorite band, but I don't mind listening to them.

But for me, it's At the Gates that was the apex of the Gothenburg sound. And contrary to what someone else before said, I think their come back record was fantastic, and from there, they've not really topped it off. I'm excited now that Anders is back in the band, tho. Let's see.

Also, I don't join in the Metallica/James Hetfield worship personally. I mean, I get the significance of their old stuff. I liked it when I first started listening to Metal, but at this time, it's getting borderline Dad-Rock-y to me. After that, I enjoy some of their songs, but I mean... objectically speaking, they're "the biggest Metal band ever" when they have like 3 good records out of the like 20 they've put out. Some of the later stuff is decent, but most of that stuff is terrible, and nowadays, they're just living off the same uninspired riffs that appeal to nostalgia from the time they were good. And their tone nowadays is terrible, TBH. JMO, of course.