Rockman Tone in 2017

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

I think a major reason why a lot of players didn't/don't like the Rockman is because it required some thinking and knowledge above and beyond the typical ("plug guitar into distortion box, then plug into dimed Marshall and crank it, dude") signal chain that was the rig-du-jour back then.

Indeed. I have found this to be the case with quite a few modern units as well, such as the G-System. The difference is of course that there was no Internet back in the day, and no obvious way to get help if you didn't have somebody "in the know" in your area.

 

[Securb]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

So, which modern FRFR cabinet caused that noise? Please don't tell me that it was one of the Matrix cabinets!

No FRFR cab with it back then. I did run it through a Ampeg V4 loaded with G12Hs in it.

You prolly could have solved that problem easily with two other Rockman products

After buying two SR&D product that underperformed I moved on. The Octopus did work with my delay and the switching lag was problematic. I ended up getting a DigiTech DSP-256XL with an ADA MP-1 which I found to have much more flexibility functionally and tone wise, it was super quiet. The DigiTech DSP-256XL was a pain to program but once you had it dialed in they sounded fantastic. I should have never sold it.

 

[LLL]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

The other big "trick" (not really a trick) with say the Rockmodules is they required "full-range" speakers.

The units already had a speaker cab sim built in.

Dudes would plug in their regular 4x12s (full of regular guitar speakers) to the Rockmodules and complain. :lol:

 

[rbc]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

I think what people miss is that the Rockmodules are kind of a next step after pedals. You can assemble them into your dream system and add an amp and speakers to make the system complete. I started building up a pedalboard for a standard amp using its effects loop and started to look at those long cable runs with some apprehension. The Rockmodules keep the cable runs for the audio nice and short.

I also discovered that my standard amp systems started to look more like a Rockman system after a while. They always seem to wind up having a compressor, gate, pre-EQ and a chorus and delay added. The Rockman version of that is easier to setup. What can I say, I'm hooked.

 

[rbc]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

I'll add that when I use AmpKit, I generally run the same configuration too:

Guitar -> Compressor -> Gate -> Pre-EQ -> Amp -> Cabinet -> Chorus -> Delay

 

[Kosh Naranek]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

This video gives a good example:

Wow! This thread is still going!
Thanks for posting this demo. I haven't used my Rockman chorus in years, since I got a BOSS CE-20 and Digitech Hardwire chorus, and have chorus options in the form of various plugins in my DAW software.

The more lush sound he gets at 1:30 when pushing the sweep speed slider up all the way is a little reminiscent of Robin Guthrie's 80s and early 90s tones! I didn't think the Rockman chorus got that sound! I chased that sound for a few years. There's a rotary preset in my Rocktron Replifex that's close, and a setting on the CE-20 that's close. But Guthrie has said in interviews that he used Rockman Sustainors back in those days to track guitars direct. Maybe he had the Rockman chorus in the rig too.
I'll have to dig out my Rockman chorus, push the speed slider all the way up and maybe record a track or two.

 

[rbc]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

David "SG" Ferringer put together a video using a Rockman Sustainor 200. Here's the chain he used:

1) Ego Compressor >
2) Rockman EQ > (Used on Clean Channel)
3) Y Splitter B > Sustainors All Return (Clean Channel)
4) Y Splitter A > AMT SS11a > Sustainors Distortion/Edge Return (Dist Channel)
5) Pedal Board >
6) Digitech MEQ > (critical in shaping the post freqs and db levels )
7) Rockman Chorus > (Stereo)
8) Reverb > (Stereo)
9) PC Sound Card

It's kind of interesting that he used an AMT SS11a in front of the distortion circuit of the Sustainor. He also substituted a different compressor, bypassing the Rockman compressor and gate, going directly into the Sustainor effects returns. It's worth pointing out that the Sustainor effects loop is before the built in distortion circuit, not after.

Here's the video:

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

A trick to getting past the traditional Rockman sound is to hit the compressor (input) with a drive pedal. It is imperative that you also boost the low-end before whatever power amp you're using. My Carvin F150 was basically made to use with the Rockman rack gear. I have yet to find a power amp that sounds as good with my Rockman head. The sound? Spectacular!

The Model 200 double IC is great, but its Distortion mode doesn't hold a candle to the Model 100 Distortion mode. The original Model 100 Distortion mode is "high-gain modified" compared to the Model 200. On the other hand, the Model 200 has a much better Edge mode. The Distortion Generator is the later "large board" model; which (TME) pisses on the 1st issue DG. This is as close as you are going to get to 1st and 2nd album Boston guitar tone via solid-state.

George Lynch used 2 x Rockman X100's and an Ibanez TS9 for the INL tracks...

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

George's cleans are one of the things that attract me to the Rockman gear. Those are just huge sounding.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

The other big "trick" (not really a trick) with say the Rockmodules is they required "full-range" speakers.

The units already had a speaker cab sim built in.

Dudes would plug in their regular 4x12s (full of regular guitar speakers) to the Rockmodules and complain. :lol:

Sorry if this is a dumb question.... But what is the diff tween speakers and "full range" speakers? The full range one have the built in tweeters or something?

 

[LLL]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Sorry if this is a dumb question.... But what is the diff tween speakers and "full range" speakers? The full range one have the built in tweeters or something?

"full range speaker"?

Generally speaking (no pun intended), a speaker that reproduces a wider range of frequencies than your typical guitar cab speaker.

A speaker with a wide frequency response.

For example, I use my 2 Seymour Duncan 1x12's loaded with stock Celestion G-12K 85s with my Rockman Rockmodules.

(Rockmodules are also designed to plug straight into the PA or mixer)

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Sorry if this is a dumb question.... But what is the diff tween speakers and "full range" speakers? The full range one have the built in tweeters or something?

A Rockman system was, apparently, ideally made to be played through a system that resembled a PA system rather than a guitar rig. I don't care for the writing style, but there is an old article explaining the basics here:

(Link looks iffy, but I guarantee that it is totally safe)

https://web.archive.org/web/20050208084307/http://perfectsoundrockrefurbs.com:80/articles.html#Article%2013%20-%20Rockman%20Amplification%20and%20the%20Full%20Range%20Concept...A%20Must%20Read!

30 years later, with the advent of the Axe-FX and Helix, it seems like the rest of the guitar world has latched onto the idea.

 

[rbc]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Sorry if this is a dumb question.... But what is the diff tween speakers and "full range" speakers? The full range one have the built in tweeters or something?

It means they are full range, like PA speakers. There are full range cabinets that are designed like guitar cabinets. The current lingo seems to be FRFR, that is Full Range, Flat Response. Modeling amps have made them more popular. Here are some I've found in the market:

http://usa.matrixamplification.com/speakers/fr12.html
http://www.accugroovellc.com/frfr
https://avatarspeakers.com/shop/guitar-cabinets/traditional/g212-traditional-frfr/
http://friedmanamplification.com/monitors/asm-12
http://atomicamps.com/clr-reference-frfr-monitors/
http://xitonecabs.com
https://missionengineering.com/shop-2/products/amplifier/gemini-2/?v=7516fd43adaa

 

[Securb]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

I borrowed my buddy's Roland 60 watt keyboard cube for a while. The thing sounded amazing with guitar. The upper and lower overtones made the guitar sound incredibly thick and whammy work was a joy to play through. Full range definitely has its benefits.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

I'll have to try that out at some time. Guitarists, as we all know, are infamously conservative, so it might be that this, strictly speaking, is a switch that many should have made a long time ago.

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

The original model 100 Sustainor was specifically designed to be used through either a PA or a guitar cabinet. The model 200 Sustainor will work in the same manner, but its treble range doesn't seem to be voiced the same (range wise) as the 100. If you look at the treble voicing slider on the model 100, you will see that it is sectored for PA (speaker) and Guitar (speaker) use. The Phase Notcher slider is for PA use only! It simulates phase cancelation between speakers in a traditional 4x12 guitar cabinet. Nothing good can result by using the Phase Notcher circuit with a guitar speaker cabinet... If you're not plugged into a PA system, leave the Phase Notch circuit off.

 

[rbc]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

I borrowed my buddy's Roland 60 watt keyboard cube for a while. The thing sounded amazing with guitar. The upper and lower overtones made the guitar sound incredibly thick and whammy work was a joy to play through. Full range definitely has its benefits.

Most of the Rockman gear provides a cabinet simulation. That includes the Headphone amps, Sustainors, Distortion Generator and the XP series. A keyboard amp is actually just fine with the Rockman gear. It won't color the sound.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Now this is funny:

Several mentions have been made here of PerfectSound Rock Refurbs. This was (to my knowledge) the first place that did Rockman refurbs, and the first online repository of knowledge about how to use them. It was quite active in the early 2000s, but disappeared some years ago. I think the owner is still around and doing things to some extent, but the page disappeared some years ago.

Or so I thought…

http://www.perfectsoundrockrefurbs.com/

Apparently, the domain has been purchased by some sort of Japanese matchmaking service. What the logic behind the choice of name is (if any) I have no idea.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

That's the only way lonely Boston tone geeks will get any nookie.

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

I believe it was actually Barry Goudreau who cultivated the "Boston sound". It was Barry who taught Tom how to play guitar. Tom also says that the band didn't exist prior to him, which is not the case. Tom responded to a "keyboard player needed" ad that was posted by other members of the band. Most of the intricate lead work (e.g. Long Time) was played by Barry Goudreau.