Rockman Tone in 2017

[LLL]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

I believe it was actually Barry Goudreau who cultivated the "Boston sound". It was Barry who taught Tom how to play guitar. Tom also says that the band didn't exist prior to him, which is not the case. Tom responded to a "keyboard player needed" ad that was posted by other members of the band. Most of the intricate lead work (e.g. Long Time) was played by Barry Goudreau.

Yep that's what I've heard too. cocked wah, etc...

Tom himself has admitted being a keyboardist when he joined the band.

 

[rbc]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Wow! This thread is still going!
Thanks for posting this demo. I haven't used my Rockman chorus in years, since I got a BOSS CE-20 and Digitech Hardwire chorus, and have chorus options in the form of various plugins in my DAW software.

The more lush sound he gets at 1:30 when pushing the sweep speed slider up all the way is a little reminiscent of Robin Guthrie's 80s and early 90s tones! I didn't think the Rockman chorus got that sound! I chased that sound for a few years. There's a rotary preset in my Rocktron Replifex that's close, and a setting on the CE-20 that's close. But Guthrie has said in interviews that he used Rockman Sustainors back in those days to track guitars direct. Maybe he had the Rockman chorus in the rig too.
I'll have to dig out my Rockman chorus, push the speed slider all the way up and maybe record a track or two.

Did you get to try your Rockman Stereo Chorus yet?

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Now this is funny:

Several mentions have been made here of PerfectSound Rock Refurbs. This was (to my knowledge) the first place that did Rockman refurbs, and the first online repository of knowledge about how to use them. It was quite active in the early 2000s, but disappeared some years ago. I think the owner is still around and doing things to some extent, but the page disappeared some years ago.

Or so I thought…

http://www.perfectsoundrockrefurbs.com/

Apparently, the domain has been purchased by some sort of Japanese matchmaking service. What the logic behind the choice of name is (if any) I have no idea.

?? Perfect sounds did a refurb on my Chorus unit a few short years ago..

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Well, the page is gone, and I think it has been for a few years. You are either getting old, or more is happening behind the scenes than I know of. I can say for certain that the page said that the guy was "retired" for quite a few years; it might have changed afterwards, though, before it went away. Or something like that. As mentioned elsewhere, I don't think the guy running it is completely gone.

How are you liking your unit?

 

[rbc]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

?? Perfect sounds did a refurb on my Chorus unit a few short years ago..

Dave Ferringer at Rockman-Repair and Dwight Baker at B5 Amplification are still actively refurbishing Rockman units.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

I wonder if it practically possible to change the power supply in these units to make them 240v? It seems like all the people repairing these are in the US, and it might be that I may just as well change the power supply in an American unit as to send a European one there and back, if it is at all possible.

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

I wonder if it practically possible to change the power supply in these units to make them 240v? It seems like all the people repairing these are in the US, and it might be that I may just as well change the power supply in an American unit as to send a European one there and back, if it is at all possible.

Yes, it is doable. You would need to change the fuse, cord, and install a dual-voltage transformer.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

As long as it can be done without adding any huge, external transformers (one of my MP-1s was a US version with the most cumbersome transformer solution I have ever seen!) that might actually be something to look into. I doubt that I'll ever get around to it, though…

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Na... It's a small dual voltage transformer that you can purchase from Mouser, same pin type as OEM.

Module 230V Transformers
Hobart 230VAC Hammond 230VAC Triad 230VAC
Midi Octopus +5V PSD-310 162E10 FS10-250
Chorus/Delay +/-6V PSD-310 162E10 FS10-200
Instr. EQ +/-12V PSD-332 162E24 FS24-100
Other modules +/-8V PSD-320 162E20 FS16-150

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

This rig kills communists! :naughty:

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Na... It's a small dual voltage transformer that you can purchase from Mouser, same pin type as OEM.

Module 230V Transformers
Hobart 230VAC Hammond 230VAC Triad 230VAC
Midi Octopus +5V PSD-310 162E10 FS10-250
Chorus/Delay +/-6V PSD-310 162E10 FS10-200
Instr. EQ +/-12V PSD-332 162E24 FS24-100
Other modules +/-8V PSD-320 162E20 FS16-150

Now THIS is awesome! Thanks a lot! Love the rig, too! I see you have three pre-amps in there (early and late Sustainor + Distortion Generator). How do you switch between them? How does the DG sound compared to the Sustainors?

 

[Aceman]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

FYI: This is the NUMBER TWO replied to Amp thread of all time.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

This rig kills communists! :naughty:

View attachment 85372

Holy Third Stage Batman!!!!!

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

FYI: This is the NUMBER TWO replied to Amp thread of all time.

Ha! I was aware that it was the most replied to this year, but not that! What is the most replied to?

EDIT: Never mind, I found it myself. I wasn't aware that there was a function for sorting threads by # of replies.

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Now THIS is awesome! Thanks a lot! Love the rig, too! I see you have three pre-amps in there (early and late Sustainor + Distortion Generator). How do you switch between them? How does the DG sound compared to the Sustainors?

If we agree that the Rockman sound is based on Marshall - the DG is Tom's take on a modified Marshall preamp. The later 'large board' model is the one to get btw. Compared to the Sustainor, the DG is capable of a increased (EDGE voiced) gain and harmonic saturation. Its overall character is voiced in the lower midrange. The pre-gain EQ is nice for tone shaping. The switchable boost option is perfect for standout licks. Even if you add a pre-gain EQ to the Sustainor loop, the Sustainor is voiced in the upper mids.

I hope I'm not being redundant, but here goes... The key to getting tube-like percussive attack with less actionable compression from a Rockman: Use a Ibanez TS9/808 into the front of the rig. Set the distortion at 9:00 - tone at 8:00 - level at 10:00 to 12:00. Dokken's 'Under Lock And Key' is replete with TS9 + Rockman guitar tones, and may be the best example of what it possible. A Lexicon PCM reverb (with stereo inputs) will round-out the entire package, but it's not critical. An exiting bass resonance boost (expander) is recommended. I believe GL used an Eventide Harmonizer for doubling, but the bedrock tracks and leads were generated using Rockman devices.

Also... The Smart Gate module isn't really needed if you're using a Sustainor. So, why is it in my rack? 1. Rockman owners like to show them off. 2. They are as rare as an earnest politician! I actually have it linked into my Marshall Silver Jubilee. Like the Rockman Compressor, the Smart Gate was designed to be used with a traditional tube amplifier.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

I've always wondered about that record. The cleans are obviously Rockman, but it is hard to tell what George used sometimes. He used to have a fairly detailed outline of his gear on his webpage, and thanks to Archive.org we can still recover it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20031226041259/http://georgelynch.com:80/rigs/studiorigs/underlockstudio.html

"I use an old Ibanez Tube Screamer or a Boss GE-7 to preamp my amps a little. Other than that, I don't use pedals except an A/B switch to throw on another guitar. I go stereo out of a Lexicon PCM-41 with 28 milliseconds of delay to fatten up my rhythms." Also pictured here two Rocktron HUSH II-C's to keep things quiet on both sides of stereo application. A Rockman Distortion Generator was used to push the signal a little more to the power section. Used in A/B switching, there is also a Rockman X100-B in a Rockmount for a chorused clean signal. While using the clean alongside the high gain in an A + B application in tandem, Lynch describes the sound as "giving it a a bit of a shimmer and percussion"…

This is the image of the rig as presented:



There is also a slightly larger version of the rack:



Now, we can't tell for certain if what is shown here is exactly what he ended up using everywhere, as I would guess that they went through a significant amount of gear in the process, but I cannot get what I see here to fit exactly with what George is saying. It is obvious that neither unit pictured is a Distortion Generator:

The images themselves aren't terribly clear, but it looks to me like we have an early, blue-face Sustainor (the whiteface was not yet in production) and a Stereo Echo/Chorus:

Below is obviously the X100 in a Rockmount.

From the phrasing, it sounds like he used the Sustainor as a distortion unit to power his Marshalls. His rig did, at least, not seem to contain any dedicated power amps.

…and yes, George did indeed use a Tube Screamer to go with it!



Now, George doesn't say anything about having used them on the road, but on this picture from the following tour it looks like he has two Rockmounts at the top of his rack (see where the cables are put in; there can't be many units where the input is located there):

If his page is to be believed, George shortly dropped the Rockmans thereafter, but who knows? He has always had magnificent tones, though, and his cleans in particular have always been very characteristic… even if they came from a box that supposedly only can do Scholz.

 

[LLL]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Ha! I was aware that it was the most replied to this year, but not that! What is the most replied to?

I'm guessing it's a Crate brand amp thread...

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Apparently a Marshall DSL thread. And that is fair – they are good amps too, if not nearly as iconic

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

If I recall correctly, George used 2 x Rockman units (housed in Rockmounts) into 2 x JCM800 100 watt Marshall heads (into effects return) for the ULAK studio tracks. One for clean - the other for distortion. The Rockman rack unit seen in the first two pics is the original (model 100) Sustainor/Chorus-Echo unit from 1986. Per my experience, the model 200 Sustainor was voiced exclusively for full-range speaker use. The model 100 was voiced for guitar speaker cabinet or full-range speakers. The original (model 100) has an absolutely wicked DIST mode! More tube-like for sure. To get that sound from a model 200, you have to use it with full-range speakers, but IMO it still doesn't sound as good.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Rockman Tone in 2017

Regarding the other amps George used, the aforementioned page tells that:

"The workhorse amplifier setup consisted of 1968 and 1971 100-watt Marshall Super Lead heads powering vintage Marshall cabinets with metal handles, green Tolex and 25/30-watt speakers. In a couple of these 4x12" boxes Lynch installed Fane speakers pulled from Vox Bulldog cabinets. He also employed a variety of other amplifiers for the LP.

"George used a mix of these different Marshall set-ups in the studio which resulted with a clean power section to preamp through. Included here are two 1968 Marshall plexi heads and a 100-watt Marshall Super Tremolo that were modified by Lee Jackson of Metaltronix, fitting them with 6550 power tube sections."

There are so many stories of George (and others) using modded vintage Marshalls, and they are indeed in the same photos as the Rockman units, so I wonder if there might be more to it than JCM 800s, but I guess it is hard to say for certain by this point.

It is cool that you are lauding the 100 Sustainors. Everybody else seems to speak more highly of the 200, yet seem to keep one of either around, just in case. It is also a unit that would be far easier to justify starting a rig with, since it is still cheap and plentiful.