Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

[Lewguitar]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

amp choice matters a bunch. plug a guitar into a tweed deluxe, deluxe reverb, twin reverb, ac30, boogie mark v, and 1987 marshall and the same guitar will work much better with some than others. even if it sounds great in its own way with all of them

Yep. These days I like amps that I can turn up and they’re not too loud...and the tone is a little on the spongey side of things.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

id say so yes

The additional "bass" will likely be "apparent bass," from the pickup hitting the amp harder. The main thing you'll get is more treble and more output. It will, in the end, appear to be a snappier pickup, even though all frequencies will be boosted to some degree.

Roughcast will likely slightlyminimize and "soften" the changes caused by going to A4, but the changes will still be there.

Ugh. I don't think I'd like it, then. The EQ of the Phat Cat is perfect as it is right now to me matched with hot bridge humbuckers. It's just the power that's a little too low. Is there any tweak I can do to remedy that other than raising the pickup, which I've obviously tried?

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

Ugh. I don't think I'd like it, then. The EQ of the Phat Cat is perfect as it is right now to me matched with hot bridge humbuckers. It's just the power that's a little too low. Is there any tweak I can do to remedy that other than raising the pickup, which I've obviously tried?

Spend some good time doing the seesaw act between pickup height adjustments and pole piece height adjustments.

Start by setting the pickup height to where you think the EQ sounds the best.

Then adjust individual pickup pole pieces in order to get the volume balance you want from your strings. That alone will likely make you a bit happier.

Then, adjust the poles pieces up as a group until you get the pickup as loud as you want it.

If, after getting the volume where you want it by using these pole piece adjustments, the EQ has become too bright, then try raising the entire pickup one turn on each screw. And lower each pole piece a half turn.

You continue this back and forth dance until you have honed in on your "sweet spot" for both EQ and output.

It's time-consuming, but well worth it.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

Two reasons A4 interests me for the Phat Cat:

* I read that during the PAF period, Gibson was buying A2, A4, and A5 mags from its vendors. Very few A4 mags made it into humbuckers, leading one to believe that the A4's went mostly to P90's.

Not sure where you heard this from. Early on the mags were A2 and A3 when p90's were used. Initially the mags were thick.....sort of 52/53, but the 54 p90's I own have the stock thickness mags, and a mix of types. A2 was probably the main mag for the p90/humbucker switchover period, but again things were stuck in randomly just the same way that bobbins were put in randomly from the wind that is seen in various pickups and the way the cream bobbins were incorporated during that transition.
Most winders that do clones harp on about the randomness, plus Gibson just buying then using stock of whatever was available at the time.....

 

[Discharged]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

Specially in the neck position, when p'up's designed around an A2, using A4s will underline more both the instrument and the wind's inherent tone-footprint, so you need to adjust the amp's EQ and consider it a new, unknown, never before played guitar.

/Peter

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

Update:

I received the A4 mags on Saturday from Addiction and installed them this Sunday. I kept the same strings and electronics in the guitar. I only changed magnets in the Phat Cat neck model.

The first change I noticed is that the Phat Cat with rough cast A4 mags is a touch louder than it was with polished A2 mags. Not a lot, but enough for me to drop it a bit more into the mounting ring.
Tonally, this pickuo got a LOT tighter overall. The low end seems deeper and the highs are more extended. The midrange isn't necessarily scooped, but it is somewhat...flattened. They're there, but not as prominent as they were with the original mags, especially the low mids. I also noticed a change in the attack of picked notes. Whereas there was a soft attack and sort of a note "bloom" with the A2's (perfect for fingerstyle jazz), the rough A4's gave the pickup a more immediate character, closer to that of Fender style singles.

It's a much better match for this guitar's neck slot now, if one intends to stay on the pop/rock side of things, but it's still somewhat on the hot side to blend well with true PAF style pickups in the bridge. It still makes the PGb that's in this guitar sound somewhat brash by comparison, but that should be expected. The PCn I have meters in at 8.3k while the PGb O have sits at 7.9k.

 

[majewsky]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

but I have a feeling a tighter, brighter PCn will get me where I want to be with this guitar.

Seymour DD90 I've got one for sale if you are interested

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

Update:

I received the A4 mags on Saturday from Addiction and installed them this Sunday. I kept the same strings and electronics in the guitar. I only changed magnets in the Phat Cat neck model.

The first change I noticed is that the Phat Cat with rough cast A4 mags is a touch louder than it was with polished A2 mags. Not a lot, but enough for me to drop it a bit more into the mounting ring.
Tonally, this pickuo got a LOT tighter overall. The low end seems deeper and the highs are more extended. The midrange isn't necessarily scooped, but it is somewhat...flattened. They're there, but not as prominent as they were with the original mags, especially the low mids. I also noticed a change in the attack of picked notes. Whereas there was a soft attack and sort of a note "bloom" with the A2's (perfect for fingerstyle jazz), the rough A4's gave the pickup a more immediate character, closer to that of Fender style singles.

It's a much better match for this guitar's neck slot now, if one intends to stay on the pop/rock side of things, but it's still somewhat on the hot side to blend well with true PAF style pickups in the bridge. It still makes the PGb that's in this guitar sound somewhat brash by comparison, but that should be expected. The PCn I have meters in at 8.3k while the PGb O have sits at 7.9k.

A decent compromise for the Phat Cat might be to try it with one A4 and one of the original A2s. A bit less volume for better balance with your PGb. Plus, you'll get back some of the chewiness & bloom.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

worth a try for sure since you have the magnets

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

I may try that. One of my favorite things about PAF-alikes is that chewiness on the top strings when you hit a chord under light OD. The A2 PC had that, this one does not. I'll try half A2, half A4 and see what happens.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

Seymour DD90 I've got one for sale if you are interested

I REALLY wish I could swing that right now, but I just got a new amp and a few other things.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

I may try that. One of my favorite things about PAF-alikes is that chewiness on the top strings when you hit a chord under light OD. The A2 PC had that, this one does not. I'll try half A2, half A4 and see what happens.

Another thought - if the A4/A2 combo still isn't quite right, it'd be worth trying A3/A2 or even a pair of A3s. A3 is similar to A2 in attack and general character including chewy feel. It simply has less bass (not deeper bass like an A4, just an attenuated version of the A2s bass) and comes across as less loose in the lows, but not dry-&-slightly-stiff like an A4. It will give you slightly lower output as well, and could balance better with a vintage output humbucker at the bridge.

I agree with Discharged that alnico4 seems more reflective of the coils & wood it's in than the other alnicos. A4 doesn't impose as much of its own personality on the tone, and I like it a lot in certain cases but it needs to be in the right guitar or it can seem lifeless. I have A4/A5 in one neck P90 that works well for the guitar it's in, and a set of Tom Holmes A4 PAFs that are startlingly detailed, just brilliant. But the factory A4 humbuckers in one of my McCartys didn't suit me nearly as well.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

Thanks for the tip RE: alnico 3. I may try it in combination with one A4 bar. I do like how tight the pickup is with A4, but I do miss that chewiness and note bloom. Maybe an A3/A4 combo will bring some of that back. I'm going to try the A2/A4 combo as well, just for kicks.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Rough cast alnico 4 in Phat Cat neck?

Update:.

I replaced one of the alnico 4 bars with a stock alnico 2 bar. I'm hearing more chewiness from the top strings and a bit more note bloom. This is a very nice, friendly pickup now and is much more at home playing squeaky-clean tones than when it was stock OR with the dual alnico 4 mags. I also took out the PGb and installed an old (early '80's) Super Distortion in the bridge.

The SD is WAY louder than the PC in its present configuration. So loud that it dominates in the middle position and drives settings that are absolutely clean with the PCn into overdrive.